If bad solar flare hits nothing works?

meddac · #1 03/07/12, 05:32 PM

Looking at a lot of info out there regarding solar flares (since obviously one is coming tonight and many more in the future) one has to wonder about rethinking preps. Seems that everything with a circuit board i.e. gensets, lawnmowers, washers/dryers,tractors ATM's/bank acct records and electronic ignitions will be big lawn ornaments or relics afterward. I got an antique 71 chevy SS that still has points and coil and that seems to be the only thing I own that will be running if TSHF. Wondering when the last small engines went electronic. Something to think about as it will certainly put us back into the late 1800's.

halfpint · #2 03/07/12, 08:54 PM

I saw this a little while ago:
http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2012...rth/?hpt=hp_c1
"Solar storm heads for Earth

U.S. politics had its "Super Tuesday" yesterday, and so did the sun, says Joseph Kunches from NOAA’s Space Weather Prediction Center in Boulder, Colorado.

That's because the sun had two solar flares associated with two coronal mass ejections. Coronal mass ejections involve massive amounts of energy and charged particles shooting out of the sun, and can cause problems if directed at Earth, as was the case over the last couple of days.

This event may stir up a geomagnetic storm, and lead to disruptions to high-frequency radio communications, global positioning systems and power grids, NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center said Wednesday. The peak of the storm is expected to hit Thursday morning; it may gradually diminish by Friday morning."

Interesting and scary. If its bad, the Northern lights might be seen as far south as Illinois and Michigan.

It will be my luck that a squirrel trips a circuit breaker on the powerline tonight, and we will think the world is coming to an end.

Dawn

hintonlady · #3 03/07/12, 09:28 PM

I wouldn't mind seeing the northern lights, never seen them before. May be a little too tripy and freak me out, lol.

Thank goodness we have OLD tractors among the newer ones. The old 8N would be great to till a garden.

GLAD DH won't be on the road tomorrow. I like him being home when things may get interesting.

Sonshine · #4 03/07/12, 09:29 PM

I don't know if my internet disruptions were a result of the solar flares or not, but it's sure been messed up today. We've been looking for an older vehicle to buy. We recently bought an old push mower. We have to build a cage for our solar set up so it doesn't get hit.

time · #5 03/07/12, 09:35 PM

My preps center around no electricity. Not alternative means, like solar either, but no electricity.

Only when I am convince I can live without power will I work at alternatives. I see them as conviences.

Darren · #6 03/07/12, 09:36 PM

The problem in 1859 was the current induced into the telgraph lines. I'm not sure the effect of an EMP is the same as a solar flare. Where an EMP would junk electronics, an X9 solar flare will wipe out large transformers connected to the grid. I don't know if a severe solar flare would fry electronics like an EMP.

hintonlady · #7 03/07/12, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by time

My preps center around no electricity. Not alternative means, like solar either, but no electricity.

Only when I am convince I can live without power will I work at alternatives. I see them as conviences.

That is very practical and makes a lot of sense. Easier said than done for some. The more I think about it the more I realize what a huge project serious prepping can be.

Bearfootfarm · #8 03/07/12, 09:49 PM

Quote:

I don't know if my internet disruptions were a result of the solar flares or not, but it's sure been messed up today

The big ones won't hit until tomorrow morning

I doubt most people will notice anything at all

AngieM2 · #9 03/07/12, 09:58 PM

I think that radio and tv signals might be really strange, especially on the ham and shortwave bands.

But this could be interesting. Now since we have a few hours to put at least some small things in a safety area. Start thinking. (to bad this laptop does not fit into anything I have that would be considered "shielded".

Or my computer sewing machines. At least i have a couple of mechanical ones around here.

JuliaAnn · #10 03/07/12, 10:19 PM

We have two vehicles that have old flathead motors in them, they run so smoothly and quietly that they sound like sewing machines. At least we'll have transportation as long as we have gas...

LonelyNorthwind · #11 03/07/12, 10:46 PM

Sorry, I think the media's just bored again and looking for hype. Report was "the worst solar storm in over five years". Hmmm, I don't remember any horrible effects from a solar storm this size or bigger five years ago, do you?

texican · #12 03/07/12, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuliaAnn

We have two vehicles that have old flathead motors in them, they run so smoothly and quietly that they sound like sewing machines. At least we'll have transportation as long as we have gas...

I've read where the flatheads would run off of straight natural gas condensate... as long as there are gas wells around, you'd have fuel...

Darren · #13 03/07/12, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texican

I've read where the flatheads would run off of straight natural gas condensate... as long as there are gas wells around, you'd have fuel...

There's a few people here running newer engines on drip gas.

AverageJo · #14 03/08/12, 08:48 AM

So it's the morning and all is well.... Although I've been watching on the news that there was a power outage a bit further south from us that can't be explained. They just switched the circuits around and everyone is back up and running while they figure it out. How 'bout the rest of y'all? Still there?

pancho · #15 03/08/12, 08:48 AM

Unless it is a solar flare that destroys animal and plant life then my life will not be changed much.
My garden will continue to grow and my animals will still produce.
I might miss the internet and electricity for a while but it is something that I can live without.

time · #16 03/08/12, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrammasCabin

Sorry, I think the media's just bored again and looking for hype. Report was "the worst solar storm in over five years". Hmmm, I don't remember any horrible effects from a solar storm this size or bigger five years ago, do you?

Naw, space weather reports are simular to regular weather reports.

The news reports the weathermans prediction based on the science available and includes possible hazards.

If the weatherman says it's suppose to snow six inches tonight, he/she usually warns about bad driving conditions.

It may appear to be hype because you are not used to seeing space weather reports. But, you'll get used to them within a couple months.

sisterpine · #17 03/08/12, 02:00 PM

I think the media is bored as well. This flare is listed as an X1 that will hit earth face on. And while this is a large flare it is no where near as they get! Does anyone know the force of the largest flare to hit earth directly?

#18 03/08/12, 02:11 PM

First, the type and intensity of solar storm that it would take to cause massive failures are very rare. It is highly unlikely to happen tonight, tomorrow night, or at all. This does not mean it won't ever happen. It almost certainly will, but you've got a much greater chance of being struck by lightning this year than you do of suffering a massive electro-magnetic pulse as a result of a solar storm. This is a low-probability, but high-consequence scenario.

Second, it's an open question as to whether a solar generated EMP would knock out electronic ignitions. The very little actual research I've ever been able to find on this for nuclear-detonation EMP indicates it might not. Again, it's an open question.

The real danger from an electro-magnetic pulse of whatever origin is anything connected to the power grid and a great many kinds of telecommunications equipment. The longer the wire the equipment is plugged into the greater the danger of damage from induced electrical currents. Electric power lines run for hundreds to thousands of miles. Plenty of antenna there to collect a big charge.

BUT, and this is a big but. How strong will the charge be and what, if any shielding, will the power and telecommunications networks have at the time the solar flash-zap arrives? In these last ten years or so that we've been taking this sort of thing seriously there has been work underway in at least a few places for at least some of the most vulnerable high-value equipment to harden it against EMP. Some important stuff may survive. Some anyway. It's a great big question mark is what it is.

In a nutshell prepping for this scenario is simple though the actual mechanics of it can be mighty difficult. Plan for no grid-power. Plan for it to be out for weeks to months and in the worst affected parts of the world for years. Plan for limited telecommunications as well. Likely no Internet for a lot of people. Also no cable television, but simple radio and local area television broadcast will be the first to come back.

No grid-power for weeks to months to possibly as much as several years for the worst affected area. This means most of our logistical infrastructure comes to a full-stop for a time then slowly begins to come back, probably in fits and starts, more so in some areas than others. Think of the ramifications of what that means because it will be a lot more than simply coping with no power after the first few weeks.

But again, it's a very unlikely scenario. One day it is going to happen, but from year to year it's unlikely.

JuliaAnn · #19 03/08/12, 03:42 PM

I wish we could find another flathead or two...

Darren · #20 03/08/12, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sisterpine

I think the media is bored as well. This flare is listed as an X1 that will hit earth face on. And while this is a large flare it is no where near as they get! Does anyone know the force of the largest flare to hit earth directly?

The largest flare on the scale would be an X9.