Sort of survival topic

[hoggie]

only sort of, but I will post it here first and see where it goes to

For those with livestock of any variety. When you built your animals housing, what did you forget? What did you not include in your initial set-up that you wished you had later (and maybe added later)?

Or what did you think it was particularly important to include?

I am thinking this through partly form a survival/coping point of view - and partly as "lightening the load" for everyday life for DD and me.

I am still in the planning stages for my new goat run/housing - luckily I haven't got as far as buildign it yet because I keep adding and changing things.

So far I have as far as an enclosed run, with run-in tunnels which will hopefully be warm in winter and cool in summer. The goats will be able to climb on top of these thereby increasing the area of the run. Along one side, between the goat run and the back of the barn there will be a passage way (hopefully covered with perpex) from which I will feed and hay. The overhang from the passage should mean that the hay rack and feed trough will be covered at all times so I will be able to ad-lib feed. The passageway roof will have rainwater collection which will feed into the goats water trough and the chickens waterer. The chickens will be immediate neighbours to the goats, and will have access to the goat run so they will be able to vacuum up after the goats.

There is a shed next to where the goats will be where I will have some hay and bedding storage and also an emergency pen for illness or kidding if necessary.

I haven't fixed on a surface for the goat run yet - the soil is very light sand and I think will get quite muddy when it is wet - I may get in builder's sand, or I may try and afford bark chippings.

Hopefully there will be lighting in the passageway once it is done.

I anticipate that they would have to come round to the front yard and into the barn for milking which is a bit of a bind, but I can't figure out any tidier way to do it at the moment.

At the moment I have 7 goats ( with kids when they come) but hope to cut back on this as nature takes it's course.

So - what did I forget? What would you change? I am trying very hard to design this on the "move things once" principle.

TIA

hoggie

[olivehill]

Sounds good to me so far. Make sure your tunnels are far enough away from the edges of your run that the goats can't jump out after they get on top.

I would also, personally, fence the path you want them to walk from their run, around front and into the barn to be milked. And add a holding pen in or just outside the barn. Run all does down the chute at one time, put them in the holding pen right there near where you milk and milk them one at a time, turning them back to the chute when you're done with them so they can find their own way back to the run. Rather than running them up to the barn one at a time and taking them back one at a time under supervision. I think it'd save you a LOT of time in the long run.

[Cyngbaeld]

Security may become an issue. Can you lock everything up tight?

[hoggie]

olivehill - thank you, that is a point I hadn't thought of. Will get back to my pen and paper and try to figure out how to put that in

Cyngbaeld - that would be very difficult. It would be very hard for someone to come and rustle them - the place is lockable and not easy to get an animal out of. But if someone wanted to come in, kill one and heft it over the fence? That would be another story. Although I am also working on the perimeter fencing to my land and making it more "deterrant"

hoggie

[JIL]

also make sure there is enough space between the tunnels and the barn goats love to climb ane get themselves in quiet a predictiament. if one ledge leads to another they will find it. it wouldn't be funny one day you walk out and they are on top the barn, lol

[bee]

About your watering plans..if I read it right you plan to collect run off from the passageway to water the goats and chickens? You also plan to allow the chickens access to the goat run for spilled feed cleanup? Are you going to be able to keep the chickens off the top of the passageway where they WILL poop( if not actually roost and poop) thus fowling(intended spelling) your water supply that the goats then will not drink?

There is one thing I consistantly fail to plan for in my poultry pens. Being able to get access points(doors and swinging fence pannels) open after the birds scratch bedding over the bottoms and they freeze or get covered in snow. I have doors inside the building that get "stuff" under them so they will not swing at the worst possible times. I fail to remember that chickens have nothing to do all day but dig thru and kick their bedding all over the place. I have also in the past built for all poultry like they were chickens and a full grown turkey makes hash out of a chicken weight pen in a very short time. That "easy" to do door that makes me crouch to enter a pen becomes a nightmare with a struggling bird to remove. Netting may keep your birds in but under snow weight will tear and collapse..after all warm season trying to rip all hair clips (with hair) out of your head and all buttons off whatever can brush the netting....I have come to understand why raccons will not come near netting!!!

[Trisha in WA]

Originally Posted by hoggie

I haven't fixed on a surface for the goat run yet - the soil is very light sand and I think will get quite muddy when it is wet - I may get in builder's sand, or I may try and afford bark chippings.

I would suggest small gravel to keep mud under control. Bark will break down over time and rot...doesn't smell too good and becomes an added mud issue eventually.

[cowbelle]

When planning animal housing, I often see people not plan for getting large amounts of feed into the building. You need to be able to back up whatever size vehicle right where you will store the feed. Carrying sacks or bales isn't fun!! Also plan for being able to feed and water stock without going into the pens with the animals. When you want to pet them, fine, go in. But when you need to keep your clothes moderately clean, feed and water from outside the pen. Mangers where the goats put their heads outside the pen to eat save lot of feed. The suggestion for in and out lanes for the milkers is such a time saver, really necessary. Have fun planning it! J*

[Blu3duk]

I always suggest when building any pen or barn take into consideration the LARGEST animal you may wish one day to house, and build appropriately for that animal and then section off the pen for the smaller animals you are starting with, ergo, a cow needs a 10x10 or 12 x 12 foot pen [3 meters or 4 meters squared] yet you can have 3 to 4 goat pens in that area, and take out the partitions if you have the forethought to build that way!! but it is increasing harder to "add room" for the bigger animal without just tearing it down or constructing a whole new barn project.... and the cost really is not that much more in the beginning.

I second the access part of being able to get feed sacks into the building easily as well as any hay or straw, even if that means adding a room on that was not thought about needing, lofts are fun, but we get older and weaker not younger and stronger!.... well to a degree.... an electric lift can be of help or a manual 'windless" if you have someone with "a strong back and weak mind" around to hoist the lift up!

Ease of cleaning the pens is another consideration, being able to get the animal waste out to the compost pile is key to helping keep muddy pens down to manageable levels too.... planning where your compost pile will be in relation to your building project needs thought of BEFORE you build and consideration of the way you access the pile goes into the drawing of the building!!!

Having good access to your manger and water trough/buckets is another good idea and plan your milking stanchions with decent access to and from the pen section for one at a time access so the animals dont crowd each other wanting to be "first" in for feed and milking. For goats or sheep milking make the stanchions raised for easier milking but build them so they are easily removed in the case you have cattle one day [or the next owner does] which also makes for better sales if ever you decide to move to another part of the world.....

William
Idaho

[Ernie]

You'll NEVER be satisfied with the first one you build so you might as well get on with it. I know guys who have been "planning" to get chickens for years now but they just can't decide on a coop design. Meanwhile, I'm on my third coop in four years and I've been enjoying fresh eggs for all that time.

There's an expression ... "throw your hat over the wall." Why would one do such a thing? Because then you're committed to the course of action ... you've got to go after your hat.

[mpillow]

LOL....4 cedar posts and a couple of tarps will suffice....tipi style

[stamphappy]

Originally Posted by Ernie

You'll NEVER be satisfied with the first one you build so you might as well get on with it.

Pragmatic, practical, wise, and very funny!!

[Spinner]

The one thing I overlooked when setting up my goat house was a sleeping shelf. I thought they would be ok sleeping on a thick layer of hay, but no, they wanted up off the ground. My goats taught me this by jumping the fence and sleeping on a flatbed trailer while totally ignoring the 2 foot thick bed of hay in their sleeping quarters.

[hoggie]

JIL - thank you, good point. I don'to think they will be able to get up there but will check it out - although if it did I suppose it would also solve the "security" issue that Cyngbaeld raised LOL

bee - that is somethign I hadn't thought about - although they have never got on the roof before but I guess I had better make sure there's no way up there for them. Doorways I have sorted

Trisha - I wll look into gravel

cowbelle - my feed store is in the main barn, it isn't the most convenient but it was the only place that seemed to work? - the hay storage for the goats will be right next to the goat run, with the driveway drivign right up to the shed.

Blu3duk - now that is something I TOTALLY hadn't thought about - mucking out (maybe it's the magic non mess producing animals I am keeping LOL) - might have to totally rethink what I have planned now

Ernie - you are SO right - but I have spent the last 15 years cobbling together pens with no planning and then struggling by day to day to cope with what I hadn't thought about I'd really like to have answered some of the problems before I start digging this time

Spinner - my goats wouldnt' know themselves - they have never had a shelf although when they were in the stable they used to climb on the manger to chill out - will have to try and find somewhere to fit a shelf or two in

Thanks again all

hoggie