Anyone use nitrogen gas for storing grains? - Homesteading Today
Homesteading Today

Go Back   Homesteading Today > Specialty Forums > Survival & Emergency Preparedness

Survival & Emergency Preparedness Freedom by relying on yourself, being prepared to survive without the need of agencies, etc.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 11/16/10, 11:40 AM
texican's Avatar  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Carthage, Texas
Posts: 12,149
Anyone use nitrogen gas for storing grains?

Saw some information over on survivalblog last week about using nitrogen gas to pack buckets of food. Looked around and saw the technique used by everyone was pretty much the same.

Pack grain in buckets, use a wand attached to a hose, on a regulated nitrogen gas cylinder... fill the container with nitrogen, by letting it flow thru the wand at the bottom of the bucket... let flow till a match lit and at the corner of the lid (mostly closed) goes out (from lack of oxygen). Run a while longer and seal the lid.

Seems relatively simple, and easier than dealing with dry ice. I've got to make a call to the welding gas distributor in town (they sent a rental bill on an oxygen cylinder I returned last month), I'll find out if they have small tanks available.

Anyone used nitrogen for sealing the bulk grains?

__________________

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11/16/10, 01:33 PM
Just Cliff's Avatar  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 1,097

I use it for everything. Grains, chicken feed, beans, macaroni.....
It is easy. and cheap. I own 1 cyclinger and have a large rental. I will buy a large cylinder once the rental is empty. Go for the large one. You will start finding uses for it. Even though I vacuum pack a lot of stuff I still throw some nitrogen at it. Just to make sure. (It's humid here most of the time) I use it when resealing items is smaller bags that I don't vacuum and for dry goods(dehydrated) sealed in cans and jars.

__________________

A socialist will trample over 100 poor people just for the chance to throw a rock at a rich man.

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11/16/10, 03:55 PM
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: No. Cent. AR
Posts: 1,730

It;s how the LDS canneries used to do it years and years ago. All my basics are packed in #10 cans with nitrogen.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11/17/10, 12:38 PM
A.T. Hagan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

It can be made to work if you're careful and with the right food stuffs. Food with large particle sizes such as whole grains work best. Finely textured foods it will work poorly with. I have instructions on how to use nitrogen gas in the FAQ.

But carbon dioxide is more effective and in the form of dry ice easier to use. Oxygen absorbers are easier still with the right packaging.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11/17/10, 08:44 PM
texican's Avatar  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Carthage, Texas
Posts: 12,149

Well, I'd "planned" on checking on the bottled nitrogen today... truck blew a vacuum pump 1/4 mile from home... thankfully I was able to get back home. Will check tomorrow, when I pick up the truck parts.

Welcome Back Alan!

__________________

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11/18/10, 10:02 PM
texican's Avatar  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Carthage, Texas
Posts: 12,149

Stopped by Red Ball today (local welding center)... they stock nitrogen, but were out temporarily. The only tanks they had were small ones, and they wanted 300 bucks for em. I say OUCH.

Will have to check other sources for tanks, or settle for dry ice instead.

__________________

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11/18/10, 10:54 PM
||Downhome||'s Avatar
Born in the wrong Century
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,736

why not CO2 ? that comes in tanks also.

I had a thought and upon googling I was not the only one.

as long as you have good sealing lids (not sure on the gamma stuff) punch a hole so you can pull through a tire valve and have it seat proper then you vac off the air. you can modify any air compressor to be a vac pump or buy a real one they also attach to a Schrader valve . I will suggest gauges either way. once the air is vacuumed out you can add back in CO2 to atmospheric pressure.

seems a no brainer ? instead of dinking around.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11/19/10, 12:05 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 736

I'd stick with dry ice. The advantage of CO2 is that it is a poison gas for insect eggs, which might kill them better than nitrogen. The way I do it seems falling out of bed easy. No tank, no tubing, just drop a lump of dry ice in the bottom of each bucket. I carefully fit the lid though so that as pressure builds the lid will "burp". It is still tight enough that air can't get straight back in. Once the bottom of the bucket is no longer cold, I snap the lid on tight for a complete seal. I can buy dry ice at a local grocery store, though I can't buy tanks of anything there!

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11/19/10, 01:34 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Western Washington
Posts: 47

When using dry ice, don't you have a problem with condensation build up in the bottom of the bucket. Here in the PNW, with the high humidity, I think that would be a problem. CO2 gas on the other hand is easy to get, most hardware/sporting goods stores sell it for paint ball guns.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11/19/10, 04:31 PM
A.T. Hagan
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Carbon dioxide really is a better way to go than nitrogen. You don't have to achieve nearly so good a flush with it as you do with N2.

In a humid climate I'd use desiccants if I used dry ice which I explain in the FAQ. Here in Florida in the summer I do that sort of packing in the house when the a/c is on so I don't have to use desiccant.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11/20/10, 06:02 AM
Just Cliff's Avatar  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 1,097

I will stick with my nitrogen. It is more inert than Co2 and a great deal more convenient. I can pack whenever I have the time or the inclination. With dry ice, arrangements have to be made to either have it delivered or go and pick it up. Then you are at the mercy of time. Where dry ice will sublimate, my nitro tanks will be at the same pressure I turned them off at.
If I have a need to go into one of my containers I can purge it again at anytime. Not as easy to do with dry ice. In a SHTF situaton I will still be able to pack my own grains for several years with what I have on hand and I will have an easier time finding a nitrogen or nitrogen/argon tank. Dry Ice will not be available.

__________________

A socialist will trample over 100 poor people just for the chance to throw a rock at a rich man.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11/20/10, 12:17 PM
texican's Avatar  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Carthage, Texas
Posts: 12,149

Well, a little online checking, and I can get bottles a lot cheaper than at the local supplier. Around $70. They have nitrogen And CO2 bottles. Would CO2 gas work as well.

I like the idea of dry ice, but it's not something that can be stored... a small 20 or 40 lb tank would last for years. IF I really needed to put up a supply of grain in after years, the tanks would be on hand, the dry ice wouldn't.

I've been around traditional corn cribbing all my life (grandparents were full time farmers and still have a full time farming aunt/uncle combo)... they still store their corn in the barn. For some reason there's less problems with weevils than there is with their shelled corn stored in the silo's...

I have welding gases on hand already, oxygen, acetylene... will be buying my own bottles soon, to avoid the rising rental prices. Wouldn't be that much of a burden to get an extra small bottle of N or CO2.

I'm thinking there might be less of an OPSEC concern with CO2, as it's used for pressurizing beer kegs. Of course, someone might ask to come to the kegger... {been a coons age since I was at a kegger}

__________________

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11/21/10, 05:47 AM
Just Cliff's Avatar  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 1,097

I have never used Co2 although I do have it on hand. Nitrogen is more temperature stable. you don't have to worry about the expansion and contraction that you do with co2.

Before getting a tank call you gas supplier and see if they will fill the size your looking at. I bought one that is considered a bastard size to the company I deal with. It takes 10 days to get it filled even though the filling plant is 25 miles away. The clerk said they wold have sold me one (larger) for not much more. getting it filled is still cheap so, I will keep it. Lesson learned.

As far as OPSEC. Your using the Nitrogen for you home brew. I am not a drinker but I saw a while back where Nitrogen was becoming prefered because "it makes smaller bubbles and makes a better head"

__________________

A socialist will trample over 100 poor people just for the chance to throw a rock at a rich man.

Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:58 AM.