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  #1  
Old 04/30/09, 07:15 AM
millerized
 
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Pray you catch the flu early

Now, before you go all crazy on me, read a bit.

Best we catch this now and get over it, while hospitals are staffed, availability of equipment and testing labs that are not backlogged and we get a shot of immunity to this stuff.

Give it a bit more time if this catches, all of the infrastructure will be maxed out, you won't be able to do much more than go home and it'll have mutated to a real killer.

But, no, I'm not running out and kissing pigs or sick people at work. But I am praying, that if I'm gonna get sick at all, that I do it sooner rather than later.

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  #2  
Old 04/30/09, 07:27 AM
 
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Sorry, I'm not going to pray that I catch the flu, at all.
Gary

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  #3  
Old 04/30/09, 07:39 AM
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We're ready for it!


Seriously tho....we talked about it some, and decided that we won't go into a lockdown this Spring. This flu is mild in it's current form, and easily treatable. We won't go around hugging and kissing folks trying to GET it, but won't avoid work or shopping, either. If we do start feeling poorly, we'll stay home, wear a mask if we have to go out (to avoid spreading whatever we have), and treat the illness with respect. That's about all we can do with it. Hopefully, those that DO get the H1N1 will have built up some immunities to the swine flu type viruses in the future

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  #4  
Old 04/30/09, 08:58 AM
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In the 1918 flu pandemic, people caught it in the spring and thought, "No big deal" but then when it came around back in the fall it had mutated to become something stronger and enough to throw off their antibodies. THEN the people started dying.

You don't build up immunity to the flu. That's why people get it every year. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of different strains even within the same type. It is constantly mutating, and even if you do have the right antibodies for the right strain in your body at the right time then sometimes it simply multiplies so fast that your body can't keep up the defense, particularly if you've been weakened by something else recently, or are suffering from poor nutrition.

Saying that you can build up your immunity to it is like saying you can build up your immunity to gunshot wounds by shooting yourself with smaller calibers for awhile.

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  #5  
Old 04/30/09, 09:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
In the 1918 flu pandemic, people caught it in the spring and thought, "No big deal" but then when it came around back in the fall it had mutated to become something stronger and enough to throw off their antibodies. THEN the people started dying.

You don't build up immunity to the flu. That's why people get it every year. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of different strains even within the same type. It is constantly mutating, and even if you do have the right antibodies for the right strain in your body at the right time then sometimes it simply multiplies so fast that your body can't keep up the defense, particularly if you've been weakened by something else recently, or are suffering from poor nutrition.

Saying that you can build up your immunity to it is like saying you can build up your immunity to gunshot wounds by shooting yourself with smaller calibers for awhile.

That would be intresting to watch tho...
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  #6  
Old 04/30/09, 09:26 AM
 
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Oh Ernie, you make me laugh. Thank you

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  #7  
Old 04/30/09, 09:33 AM
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Saying that you can build up your immunity to it is like saying you can build up your immunity to gunshot wounds by shooting yourself with smaller calibers for awhile.


I like that Ernie.....Great analogy! and gave me a good chuckle...Thanks.

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  #8  
Old 04/30/09, 09:57 AM
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well, I hate to start a fight...but you DO build up immunities to various strains. That's why we can survive the flu. It's a different strain most year. Yes, they mutate. BUT ....

It's also why they're so freaked out by this one. This is based on swine virus. We have NO immunities to the swine virus because it's so so rare in the human system.

You can't build up an immunity to the new strain..but a mutation is BASED on the one you got last year, for instance. It has some of the same genes in it....IF you already have antibodies that recognize that gene (or that part of the virus) they can begin the attack and surround the virus making is easier to kill it off.

It's simple immunology. Same thing with any germ out there.

The immunity that is built up is also one of the reasons that the pandemic of 1918 eventually died out. people built up an immunity. It's why flu doesn't get everyone sick. You can have some of the virus in your system and never know it because your own body has the antibodies to fight it.

I do realize that getting the strain once will not necessarily protect you from a mutation of the same strain. BUT it does give you some antibodies and Tcells that may recognize the virus if it attacks again. What I'm saying in my original post is that we're not going to go into panic mode and just stay home at the moment. If we get the flu, we'll fight it and fight transmitting it to anyone else.

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  #9  
Old 04/30/09, 10:29 AM
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The virus can mutate to be less deadly too- a virus that changes not to kill its host will spread more successfully than one that kills off it's host.
My mom told about my grandfather who was isolated from the family when he came down with the Spanish flu in 1918- but none of the rest of the family got it. A lot of chance involved too.

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  #10  
Old 04/30/09, 10:34 AM
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The reality is somewhere between the middle of what Ann is saying and what I am saying. If you get a particular strain of the flu then your body will have some antibodies against it and a better chance of fighting it off than if you had none. However we don't know how many strains of this there are or how fast it will mutate.

Mostly I'm trying to dissuade anyone from taking the OP's advice and going out to deliberately expose themselves to this.

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  #11  
Old 04/30/09, 10:57 AM
 
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Let me get this straight, I have to worry about zombies, infected flying pigs and now ....... MUTANTS.

Do you prep the same for zombies and mutants?




I shook my magic 8 ball and it said:
Signs point to yes.

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  #12  
Old 04/30/09, 11:15 AM
 
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Originally Posted by hintonlady View Post
Let me get this straight, I have to worry about zombies, infected flying pigs and now ....... MUTANTS.

Do you prep the same for zombies and mutants?




I shook my magic 8 ball and it said:
Signs point to yes.
You have been here entirely too long to not know how to combat Mutants...

It takes garlic and natural spring water put into a Super Soaker. We all know that.
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  #13  
Old 04/30/09, 11:20 AM
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Not for me. I caught something first of Feb. and thought I was going to die. Severe chills w/fever, joint and all over aches, stomach stuff...

It was so bad that I gathered the family around and give wife pin numbers, passwords, etc... just in case.

It lasted exactly 72 hours, well enough to go to work after that... but it was the most horrible 72 hours I can remember living...

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  #14  
Old 04/30/09, 04:05 PM
 
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The spring wave is milder I read than what will follow.

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  #15  
Old 04/30/09, 04:56 PM
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getting it early will not help since there is no vaccine for the current strain, Most pandemics have a high death rate in the 1st group that are infected since it takes people with the flu to make a vaccine . Now the second group is less likely to have issues and it lessens after that. Once the pandemic is declared you will be no testing to confirm you have it. If you dont feel good you get the vaccine or possibly everyone will be given the vaccine.

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  #16  
Old 04/30/09, 05:04 PM
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The WHO is reporting less than 10 deaths (mexico says its in the hundreds) from this flu.

The standard good old fashion wintertime influenza kills hundreds of people around the world.

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  #17  
Old 04/30/09, 05:10 PM
busca la bella vida
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in ohio View Post
getting it early will not help since there is no vaccine for the current strain, Most pandemics have a high death rate in the 1st group that are infected since it takes people with the flu to make a vaccine . Now the second group is less likely to have issues and it lessens after that. Once the pandemic is declared you will be no testing to confirm you have it. If you dont feel good you get the vaccine or possibly everyone will be given the vaccine.
Actually Gary, most pandemics have the highest death rates during 2nd, 3rd, and any other subsequent waves. This has been true of nearly every pandemic to have ever developed in history.

During the 1918-1919 Spanish Influenza outbreak there was a smaller Spring outbreak that killed very few patients but did provide some documented immunity to those that caught this "mild version". The infection control doctor in charge in Whitecastle, New Zealand during the Spanish Flu pandemic caught the Spring "mild version" & ended up with immunity to the 2nd & 3rd waves that hit during the Fall & Winter of 1918/1919.

Moreover, it is historically well noted that the Black Death (the Black Plague) was more virulent and more widespread during subsequent waves of the epidemic.

The reasons for this are sketchy. Generally, virii will sacrifice virulence (strength) for transmissibility (the ability to jump from host to host more easily). However, occasionally a new virii will pop up that develops relatively rapid transmissibility without having to sacrifice virulence. In every case, the more hosts infected by a virii, the more likely it is to reassort with another viral strain & mutate-- these mutations can result in a less virulent strain being subsequently passed on to others OR it can result in a more virulent strain being subsequently passed on to others.

The scientists studying this particular strain of H1N1 have about as much of a clue about which way this is going to go as you & I do at this point-- it may level off & then fizzle permanently, it may level off & then come back in a more virulent form next Fall during the "regular flu season" and kill thousends or millions, or it may not fizzle out at all and may become a full blown, high mortality rate pandemic.

In any case, usually mortality rates start out lower & climb with subsequent exposures to larger amounts of the general population in progressive waves. Is it a good idea to "try" to get the flu now or to "pray" to get it-- I have no idea. I would venture to say that I certainly wouldn't deliberately try to contract it. There's no way to know if your body would be able to build enough antibodies to counteract it should it come back in a more virulent 2nd wave form-- you might be able to, but if the virii's genetic structure changes significantly enough during mutation or reassortment, you might be left with no protection at all as the antibodies you produce won't be able to recognize it anyhow.

I think this is one of those wait & see how this pans out times.
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  #18  
Old 05/01/09, 08:12 AM
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I wouldn't try to catch it or hope to catch it. People can die from complications of any illness. It is like the people who have chicken pox parties to expose their kids. Kids die from chicken pox secondary skin infections.

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  #19  
Old 05/01/09, 08:38 AM
 
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The 10 deaths in Mexico are 10 CONFIRMED deaths. In order to fit this classification, the cases have to have had samples taken prior to or shortly after death and sent to one of a small number of participating laboratories and subjected to a specific testing procedure, the results of which have to match up to a predesignated standard. There have been many more deaths in Mexico, even in the hospitals, from which samples were not taken, or were not sent to those few labs or tested in the prescribed way. Most of these other deaths were the "probables". Just because their samples did not go through the process and system does not mean that they were not due to this current H1N1 virus. I have heard from fairly reliable sources everything from a couple of hundred dead to between 700 - 900 (reported privately by a physician working in a Mexican hospital).

The good news is that some experts are now saying that this virus is starting to show some differences from the 1918 one, and may well not be as lethal. However, that does not mean that no one will die from it.

I used this whole scare to motivate me to make sure I closed up any gaps in my pandemic illness preps and to review my plans for such a situation. I am very glad to see that perhaps we have dodged this bullet. However, I will step up my precautions and vigilance again in the fall, when things could get dicey again, and in general will keep a closer eye on the pandemic tracking maps for several months. But for the grace of God, this one could have been very, very bad. There is a small chance that it still may go that direction.

I surely do not want to be the one who tried to catch it for the immunities only to find that I was harboring some little health problem that when combined with the flu, made me one of the statistics. People die of seasonal flus every day. I won't willingly risk becoming one of them.

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  #20  
Old 05/01/09, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by hintonlady View Post
Let me get this straight, I have to worry about zombies, infected flying pigs and now ....... MUTANTS.

Do you prep the same for zombies and mutants?
After watching the new Wolverine movie (another X-men movie) I have decided Adamantium bullets are definitely the way to go versus mutants. If only I could find some...

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  #21  
Old 05/02/09, 07:10 AM
millerized
 
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I guess my post went over most peoples head. Yes, your body will build up some antibodies to the current strain. With some antibodies, you might have some resistance to parts of the future strain when it mutates, but most likely not all of it. When it mutates later in the year, you'll have some head start on the rest of the world who hid in their cellars, avoiding the world, hoping they wouldn't get caught.

There is increased resistance built, that's why you get shots. That resistance is usually not passed to the next year because the flu itself changes from year to year, just like the shots make-up . Now, you get a vaccine for H2N4 this year, good chance you won't catch it next year if that is what shows up. Now you get a vaccine of H1N1 this year (if it existed), there's a good chance you won't catch it next year if it still is the foremost flu on the market. It's a guessing game, and the brightest minds in medicine have a 50-50 chance of getting it right year to year. http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/fluvaccine.htm

My reasoning for the post is that while getting it now could give you a bit of help later, it will give you the opportunity to get sick while there are still hospitals and clinics operating with fully staffed and equipped offices. This time next year, if it gets active again, will find hospitals filled with patients, minimally staffed due to illness, with essential equipment unavailable and OTC medicines impossible to find. Pretty much if you don't have access to it, you'll get to go home to suffer it out.

Check your local stores right now for masks Sambucol or other flu remedies. This is a minimum to mild panic. What do you expect to find in 3 months if this continues escalating throughout the summer?(it'll slow down til next flu season, tho)

I work at a 70 bed hospital (acute care, more beds available for inpatient and overnight stays), we have 4 ventilators on hand. Our option for getting more will fall in line along with the other local hospitals requests. These things don't exist in plenty, and best case we get 5 more to help. The world isn't set up any better to handle a pandemic any better than your local 7-11. Equipment that will be required simply doesn't exist in the quantity that will be needed. Patient space, hell, you can lay them out in a gym or hallways if you have the need, but the equipment and supplies just don't exist.

If this follows the 1918 pattern, this is just the beginning of a very painful part of the 21st century. If you haven't already, clean up your act (body/mind), build some individual immunity by dieting and exercise, stock what supplies you can still find (masks/gloves/sanitizers/vitamins/supplements) and pray.

My body won't accept any vaccines or shots. A flu shot is usually followed in 2 days with a 2 week hospital stay. Natural immunity is all I have left. Not sure what I'm allergic to, but my options are limited. If I'm gonna catch it, I want it now while I've still got a hospital bed to lie in.

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  #22  
Old 05/02/09, 09:33 PM
 
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I think what most people don't realize is that most people died in the 1918 flu pandemics from subsequent BACTERIAL infections (complications), specifically pneumonia. No antibiotics back then, now it's a different story. Unless your very elderly, immune depressed, etc....
your going to have a better chance of surviving ANY flu and it's secondary infections because of better treatment options.

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  #23  
Old 05/04/09, 08:24 AM
 
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We do build immunity too the flu.......

................Sorry guys but I've heard numerous doctors make very clear statements that , WE , DO , build Immunity , too Various strains of Flu Virus ! That is why , people were able too survive flu epidemics , Before vaccines were available ! The immunity soldiers of system are able to attack and kill the virus invaders and win the battle . We don't always win , but , we , Don't always loose , either .
................Older folks have built some immunity too various forms of the flu by virtue of the fact that we have been subjected too various , mutated versions of such . I reject the notion that we , collectively , are ALL totally vulnerable too any flu virus that gets into our system . , fordy

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  #24  
Old 05/04/09, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by fordy View Post
................Sorry guys but I've heard numerous doctors make very clear statements that , WE , DO , build Immunity , too Various strains of Flu Virus ! That is why , people were able too survive flu epidemics , Before vaccines were available ! The immunity soldiers of system are able to attack and kill the virus invaders and win the battle . We don't always win , but , we , Don't always loose , either .
................Older folks have built some immunity too various forms of the flu by virtue of the fact that we have been subjected too various , mutated versions of such . I reject the notion that we , collectively , are ALL totally vernable too any flu virus that gets into our system . , fordy
Fordy,

Of course we build immunity to various strains of flu. However, that immunity is built either through exposure or inoculation. The issue with virii is that they mutate-- creating new strains that we have not yet been exposed to, which leaves us vulnerable to falling ill. Sure, you may have been exposed to this strain or that-- but if those strains reassort and create a new virus, you may or may not have antibodies that would recognize the viral genetic material which means you may or may not have any sort of immunity to that particular strain of flu. There are plenty of communicable diseases that exist the world over that you might be vulnerable to contracting because you have no immunity-- and there is no way you've been exposed to EVERY strain because of the constant possibility of mutation.

In 1918, the reason the flu had such a high contraction rate was that it was a newly formed (mutated) strain-- thus, few people had any sort of immunity, and many contracted it.

It's the same for any virus on the planet-- HIV is a virus, and we have yet to be able to devise any sort of vaccine for it because it is constantly mutating. Unless a strain stays similar, you can contract it because you won't have antibodies for it. That's why they come out with a new vaccine for flu every season-- because different strains will dominate, depending on the season, and unless you've built antibodies to that particular strain, you'll be vulnerable to contracting it.

In large part, that's why we have so many fewer anti-viral medications compared to antibiotics-- antibiotics will treat bacterial infections because bacteria are bacteria-- they don't reassort or mutate in the same way that virii do (though they can develop antibiotic resistance-- for instance MRSA is staph that is antibiotic resistant). However, virii DO mutate (and quickly!), and sometimes antiviral medications work and sometimes they don't. Virii can mutate to be "too strong" for antiviral medications & then... well then we're in trouble I suppose.
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Old 05/04/09, 12:41 PM
 
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..............Are not some who participate in 'those' activities , Immune from the AIDS virus ? I believe they do exist . Not many , admittidly(sp) , but they are documented I believe . , fordy

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  #26  
Old 05/04/09, 12:43 PM
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I think what most people don't realize is that most people died in the 1918 flu pandemics from subsequent BACTERIAL infections (complications), specifically pneumonia. No antibiotics back then, now it's a different story. Unless your very elderly, immune depressed, etc....
your going to have a better chance of surviving ANY flu and it's secondary infections because of better treatment options.
Lorian--

Yes, many died from secondary infections. However, many during the 1918 pandemic who died were in their prime-- between 18-45 years of age. They died because of excessive immune response (cytokine storms), something that we are still vulnerable to and would still be vulnerable to should another flu pandemic that is highly virulent appear. Those who are immuno suppressed/elderly/etc. are essentially vulnerable at all times, even to less virulent strains, simply because of their compromised immunity.

Granted, if you get the flu and then fall ill with a bacterial suprainfection, we do now have the antibiotics to help combat the secondary infection. But how do we stop a cytokine storm? It isn't a secondary infection-- it's the body's natural immune response getting to be completely out of control. We could easily repeat the millions of casualties seen in 1918 in that "prime of your life" age group if something similarly virulent began going around.

The idea that we couldn't have a devastating pandemic that kills millions because we are "so technologically and medically advanced" is not realistic. It certainly could still happen. Hence, the panic over this current H1N1 strain.
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  #27  
Old 05/04/09, 12:51 PM
busca la bella vida
 
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..............Are not some who participate in 'those' activities , Immune from the AIDS virus ? I believe they do exist . Not many , admittidly(sp) , but they are documented I believe . , fordy
Fordy,

Here is an article on HIV immunity--- those working on why some individuals might be immune to HIV have honed in on genetics. Because of the way that HIV works (by attacking your immune cells/system), they think that it is possible that some individuals may appear to be "immune" not through exposure or innoculation, but because of genetic variants in their chromosomes that make their immune system invulnerable to the way that HIV operates.

This is a totally different virus from the flu virii that exist-- they work in a completely different way, and it seems that in order to be immune to HIV, you must have something in your genetic code.

Anyhow, here's the link to the article if you'd like to read it-- it's certainly interesting!

http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2005/01/66198
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  #28  
Old 05/04/09, 01:21 PM
 
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Fordy,

Here is an article on HIV immunity--- those working on why some individuals might be immune to HIV have honed in on genetics. Because of the way that HIV works (by attacking your immune cells/system), they think that it is possible that some individuals may appear to be "immune" not through exposure or innoculation, but because of genetic variants in their chromosomes that make their immune system invulnerable to the way that HIV operates.

This is a totally different virus from the flu virii that exist-- they work in a completely different way, and it seems that in order to be immune to HIV, you must have something in your genetic code.

Anyhow, here's the link to the article if you'd like to read it-- it's certainly interesting!

http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/news/2005/01/66198
............Thanks , I'll read it when i get back from work !
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