Snow - idiot question

hoggie · #1 02/07/09, 01:36 PM

Sorry - but I reckon if anyone can answer this some of you folks can

In the UK they have snow. We had a small bit for a couple of days which has now melted, but in the UK mainland they are at a standstill. And they have run out of salt - one council is using table salt because they couldn't get rock salt. The councils are saying that it is too costly to stockpile salt "just in case" because salt deteriorates at 10% per year - who knew? They say it would cost "millions" to stock enough rock salt, but they are predicting billions lost by small businesses due to the weather.

Anyway - that is beside the point really

What I want to know is what is the secret to driving in snow. I have never driven in snow, so while we had snow I left the car parked up and walked. But I also know that a lot of it is knowing how to deal with it. So - lessons/tips please? Any advice for a snow newbie

hoggie

DaleK · #2 02/07/09, 01:41 PM

Snow tires. Probably not an option for you. Second is to try to drive like you don't have brakes. Hopefully when you need them there'll be enough traction for them to work but don't depend on it.

Those are my main ones anyway. Lots more to come.

Some of the roads here have now been snow-covered for almost 3 months and won't likely be bare again for another 2.

horselover.com · #3 02/07/09, 01:47 PM

My very limited experience is that driving in snow is not that bad of a deal...it's the 'black ice' that makes driving horrid. Once you hit ice and start sliding, there are driving skills (which way to turn the wheel, when and how hard to brake, etc.) that can allow you to regain control of the vehicle. If there are other vehicles around you though, and they have hit the ice as well, seems to me that's when a great deal of plain old luck comes in to play

Cheryl in SD · #4 02/07/09, 01:55 PM

Drive slowly, don't touch the brakes unless you must and then very gently, and don't drive unless you have to.

sherry in Maine · #5 02/07/09, 01:59 PM

a car with 4 wheel drive helps too.

Of course, I've driven in snow with none, but still did it. Feels safer with 4 wheel drive. I still drive like a snail when the snow is fresh, or it's icy, no matter what.

stanb999 · #6 02/07/09, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoggie

Sorry - but I reckon if anyone can answer this some of you folks can

In the UK they have snow. We had a small bit for a couple of days which has now melted, but in the UK mainland they are at a standstill. And they have run out of salt - one council is using table salt because they couldn't get rock salt. The councils are saying that it is too costly to stockpile salt "just in case" because salt deteriorates at 10% per year - who knew? They say it would cost "millions" to stock enough rock salt, but they are predicting billions lost by small businesses due to the weather.

Anyway - that is beside the point really

What I want to know is what is the secret to driving in snow. I have never driven in snow, so while we had snow I left the car parked up and walked. But I also know that a lot of it is knowing how to deal with it. So - lessons/tips please? Any advice for a snow newbie

hoggie

You most likely did the best thing...

First it takes time to get good at driving in the snow.
Second even when you get really good. A bozo who isn't will run you off the road.

Now, if you really wanna drive good in the snow all it takes is anticipating what the road is like ahead. Drive slower, but not real slow like 55-65 KPH when you would normally go 80 KPH. Try to drive steady in that you don't make quick moves, sudden starts, or stops. Slow down before you need to for a turn or stop. Speed up just before a hill and try to keep the speed steady (this is the hardest thing to master).

Heck or you could do what most of us northern folks do... Just go to a big parking lot and "play". This is probably the best way to learn. Most fun too.

Deacon Mike · #7 02/07/09, 02:06 PM

Do you have anti-lock brakes? If so, stomp 'em hard and keep them down when you need to stop.

If your back end slides to the right, turn the wheel gently in that direction to bring it back straight

palani · #8 02/07/09, 02:06 PM

For the little amount of snow you folks get why not carry chains for your tires (tyres?).

In New Orleans many years ago a co-worker (from Wisconsin) got trapped on the Mississippi river ferry because the ramp to get off was ice covered. He put chains on the truck and went up and down the ramp several times to chew up the ice so everyone could get off.

The southerners watched him put the chains on and were asking what they were for.

I think now they even have nylon straps that serve somewhat the same purpose as chains.

mnn2501 · #9 02/07/09, 02:13 PM

Drive slow, do not tromp on the gas or the brakes, your starts and stops need to be gentle, if your tires start spinning you're too heavy on the gas pedal. I drove for 20 years in MN and WI without snow tires or 4 wheel drive -- you don't need either, 7 years of it I was rural (14 miles to a town with a population of less than 1K and 30 miles to a town with a population of 8K) Just take it easy, drive less than the speed limit and give yourself at least double the normal braking distance.

If there is ice on the roads -- park it and stay home.

Cyngbaeld · #10 02/07/09, 02:18 PM

I learned to drive on ice and snow in Alaska. When the roads are bad here, I stay home. "I" know how to drive on it and can pull out of a skid without thinking about it, but the other people out there don't know what they are doing. Nothing against them, you understand, they just never get enough bad weather to learn. So I feel it is much better to just stay home.

hoggie · #11 02/07/09, 02:56 PM

Thanks

Snow tyres are probably not a viable option, but I might get some chains which could stay in the shed in case we need them in future. I will keep an eye open on ebay in teh next few weeks - probably be plenty up for sale LOL

By driving as though I haven't got brakes, do you mean relying on my gears for braking ?

The traction for getting up a hill would be a biggy here (the island is one big hill)

I would so love to go somewhere snowy and learn properly - if I had spare cash I would probably go and do just that.

I can never remember the skidding thing - rear wheel you steer into it, front wheel you steer out of it? I guess those are things that should be second nature really ?

I hear what you are saying about staying home - For most things we wouldn't need the car if it was bad - but I would love to be able to feel confident if I needed to drive? If that makes any sense? Ice I stay pretty well away from

Thanks again

hoggie

Freeholder · #12 02/07/09, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoggie

Thanks

Snow tyres are probably not a viable option, but I might get some chains which could stay in the shed in case we need them in future. I will keep an eye open on ebay in teh next few weeks - probably be plenty up for sale LOL

If you go on eBay to get tire chains, make sure you get the right ones for your tires.

By driving as though I haven't got brakes, do you mean relying on my gears for braking ?

No, he meant to drive slowly and with great caution. Keep a good distance between you and other vehicles, take corners with extreme caution, start to slow down way ahead of when you normally would for stop signs or traffic lights. Keep a very close eye on other drivers and avoid them! The next time you have snow on the ground, it would be a good idea to find a large, empty parking lot and spend some time 'playing' in the snow -- start very slowly, but get used to what your vehicle does on snowy pavement.

The traction for getting up a hill would be a biggy here (the island is one big hill)

Hills are where those chains would really come in handy. I've seen people sliding sideways down an icy hill -- they'd been stopped at the top of the hill for a traffic light, and just started sliding down!

I would so love to go somewhere snowy and learn properly - if I had spare cash I would probably go and do just that.

I can never remember the skidding thing - rear wheel you steer into it, front wheel you steer out of it? I guess those are things that should be second nature really ?

In my experience, once you start sliding on an icy road, steering isn't going to do a bit of good! Others may disagree, but when I've lost traction on ice, the momentum of the heavy vehicle kept us going in the same direction regardless of what I did with the steering wheel. The only time it may help to try to steer out of it is when there's a patch of ice, but also patches of open pavement where you can get some traction.

I hear what you are saying about staying home - For most things we wouldn't need the car if it was bad - but I would love to be able to feel confident if I needed to drive? If that makes any sense? Ice I stay pretty well away from

I've driven in Alaska, in New Hampshire, and here in Eastern Oregon -- all have snowy winters, and sometimes icy roads. I'm still not confident about driving on bad roads! I just grit my teeth and do it (when I have to), go slowly and very carefully, and pray! I've gone in the ditch a couple of times, and once hit ice, spun around in the road, and hit a tree, but we weren't going very fast and nobody was hurt except my poor car! Watch out for black ice, that's the worst, since it's hard to see it. Often the road is mostly dry, except for a few patches of ice in shady spots, so you start to speed up, thinking the road is good -- and then you hit the patch of ice.

Thanks again

hoggie

You are blessed to live where the roads aren't usually snowy or icy -- it's the worst thing about winter, IMO.

Kathleen

paintlady · #13 02/07/09, 04:01 PM

You might want to check to see if tire chains are legal there. They are illegal to use in some states here because they tend to tear up the roads. Don't follow too closely behind the car in front of you. Pump the brakes instead of just holding them down while coming to a stop. Don't use cruise control on ice.
Do they have access to sand there? Here they use sand quite a bit instead of salt as it is easier on the roadways and more environmentally friendly.
You are always welcome to hop a plane to Minnesota for free driving lessons!

Annsni · #14 02/07/09, 04:18 PM

Absolutely drive in a lower gear. I live in a very hilly area and will drive in first the whole time because it really does help with going down the hills. For going up - slow and steady. STEADY is the key. Don't accelerate and don't slow down. Just keep it going steady. The problem always is if you're going up a hill and someone else going up is stuck. Once you stop, you're toast. It's best to either pass them if you can safely or else turn around and try it again.

I take my teens to large parking lots where they can drive around on the ice and snow and play around a bit to see how the car responds to what they do. It's the best training there is, IMO.

PhilJohnson · #15 02/07/09, 06:29 PM

Around here all the secondary roads and most of the roads in town don't get salted at all. They do get plowed though. The one road I usually go to visit my parents was as smooth as lake ice. I even ride the motorcycle on the ice and snow

Biggest thing is not to drive too fast, don't lock up the brakes, and drive like there is an egg under the gas petal.

Wisconsin Ann · #16 02/07/09, 07:07 PM

"driving like you have no brakes" should really mean brakes...not just use your gears to shift down. Leave MUCH larger room between you and the car ahead of you. Car ahead could stop...and you can't....WHOOSH! right into the back end of the car ahead of you.

Slow down. Most people here (wisconsin....LOADS of snow every year) that end up in the ditch are simply driving too fast. You're okay going straight usually...but if you have to cross into the next lane to pass...you may not be able to stop even that simple angle of turn.

Many people go into the ditch because they see clear road...speed up...and then SUDDENLY hit a patch of snow/ice.

Quite a few people have 4wheel drive or all wheel drive vehicles and think they're safe.

I swear to you....those are the FIRST vehicles we see in the ditch when it's bad weather. Usually it's some big SUV...the driver thought "ah! I have 4WD...I can go faster!!" and of course..they end up spinning out.

Going up a hill in snow is tricky...you need a good start and then you need to keep the tires turning and gripping...once they start to slip or spin in place, you've lost the fight.

You also need to know how NOT to oversteer. If you've ever skidded in the rain, that's a similar feeling.....just with snow/ice it goes on forever

Sam_Luna · #17 02/07/09, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon Mike

Do you have anti-lock brakes? If so, stomp 'em hard and keep them down when you need to stop.

If your back end slides to the right, turn the wheel gently in that direction to bring it back straight

Stomp them? I think not!

Even with anti lock brakes you should apply just enough break untill you feel them "shuddering", and still steer into the skid until the veh responds. Stomping them and saying a hail mary is just praying that it will stop without hitting anything.

Sam

PrincessFerf · #18 02/07/09, 09:08 PM

Wisconsin Ann's responses are all dead on correct. Living in Wisconsin for all of my life the one thing that I can't ever stress enough is to drive SLOWLY (but not so slow that you become an obstacle in the road) and leave plenty of space between you and the vehicle in front of you.

The challenge in your area is not unlike what we see here in the states in the south. These are areas that don't regularly get snow or very cold weather, so its just not cost-effective to have the infrastructure (plows, sand/salt boxes at intersections, tire chains, snowblowers, etc.) to deal with it at the level that the north prepares.

Unfortunately that leaves those areas in an icky position when they do get hit with "a big one".

When all else fails, just stay at home. Its not worth taking a risk venturing out of your home when the roads aren't safe.

Jim-mi · #19 02/07/09, 10:00 PM

I used to race on the ice on frozen lakes. . .with many a first place trophy to show for it.
Now that was fun.

I can't tell you how to drive in snow/ice conditions in one little paragraph. . . . . . .
Wanna go for a ride . . ???

Unfortunately that VW Beatle is long gone

Stay well away --say a 1/4 mile--from that poster that said to stomp on the brakes.

Pink_Carnation · #20 02/07/09, 10:27 PM

You said hills...so how many kids use the road for sledding? That is a problem in this area. How steep are the hills? Depending on how steep they are there really isn't a safe way to drive on them. If they aren't too steep ..going up you need to try to not have to stop or you might not get going again. Going down figure you can't stop until it levels out.