Wood heat

[Andy Nonymous]

I've noticed a few folks here mention considering getting a wood stove, due to the rising cost of energy, and thought I'd give my two cents worth (in genuine solid copper). Some here may disagree. YMMV.

Wood for heat should be a decision based on knowledge, not one made in haste, or of dire necessity, and the kind of hands on knowledge required can be a steep and expensive learning curve. I'd be remiss in not urging caution.

Back when the Countryside (Lusenet) forum was still young, back when I still subscribed to CS, I wrote an article about using wood for heat after 20 some winters of experience plus a decade in the fire service, but decided not to submit it. I may reconsider, re-edit and submit to CS, just because "now may be the time". What follows is not that piece.

Much as it may be annoying to hear, installing a wood stove with next to no experience in using one can be very bad ju-ju. Wood heat is unlikely to ever be "safe", and is best with 24/7 vigilance, along with working smoke detectors, a well tuned nose, and at least one eye open at all times.

I had relatives that I 'apprenticed' with, that grew up and grew old burning wood and I got to help fire several kinds of stoves in my youth. Then I grew up, moved out, and decided to heat with wood. There are several occasions related to that choice that are seared into my memory, such as the time a cousin nearly ignited her 'summer cottage' house with a raging chimney fire in an unlined 80 year old brick chimney; the couple occasions during my watch when a chimney fire ignited in my double wall ("Metalbestos type HT" - high temp) stainless chimney that heated the immediate wall and ceiling too hot to touch, even at "specified clearances". Fortunately, those fires weren't even BAD because I DID (and do) check and clean chimney fairly often. Fortunately, the inner stainless chimney lining wasn't distorted or otherwise compromised. I've seen pieces of another one that was given to me that were after the owner had a chimney fire and decided wood heat was too dangerous - I scrapped most of it. I could have had the stove too, for $50, but the heat had warped the cast iron of the stove itself - it's truly a wonder he didn't burn down his house.

Some other folks I know had the bottom fall out of their stove and drop a load of hot coals on the stove board covering the floor, still passing enough heat to burn through the floor below. They grew up burning wood too, but "stuff can happen".

Then there was the time I was working about 4000 miles away in Alaska, and I left my then wife-to-be to tend the stove for the winter, after all, she had tended a stove of her own for a couple winters. She called at an odd moment when I just happened to be 'home':

(her): "I think there's a chimney fire. What should I do?"
(me): "What makes you think so?"
(her) "the stove is roaring, there is a crackling in the chimney and the wall upstairs is getting really hot."
(me): "call the fire department, they're a lot closer"

Actually, I did manage to talk her through it, and not lose the house (or get the boys with the flashing lights on the big trucks involved), but these thing can and do happen and can easily and quickly get out of hand, especially burning less than well seasoned and dry wood, and even more so with 'air-tight' stoves that limit combustion air to regulate 'burn time', which makes for more incomplete combustion and thus more 'creosote' build-up in the chimney. Catalyst stoves help with reducing that, but still need to be fired right to work safely and well.

Then there was the house fire 'up there' that claimed the life of a young girl - she was having a sleep-over with a couple friends; the wood stove caught the house on fire, she woke to her parents yells and the smoke and heat. The door was already too hot to open, so she made sure her friends got out onto the porch roof (at -20), and as the firemen were putting a ladder to the porch and trying to battle the fire on the first floor, they could only watch as the floor collapsed beneath her... I didn't make that call, but I well know the effect it had on my comrades.

There was a 'neighbor' a street over who had grown up with wood heat - his father had use it all his life. After his father died, this fellow (an only child) who lived alone, went out on a date, came home to tend the stove about 11pm, and went back out. At a bit after 1am, the siren went off, and his place was fully engulfed - seems he inadvertently left the ash pan door open and the tile chimney liner had been cracked for quite some time, leaking 'creosote' into the old mortar joints. The stove got hot, the chimney got hot, the creosote ignited, the house ignited. Poof. The dog got out. His family heirlooms and father's coin collection did not.

Note: Check everything related to the stove regularly. A damaged or compromised stove or chimney MUST be suitably and safely repaired or replaced before further use, and that ain't cheap. Then again, neither is replacing a dwelling and contents. Don't use junk. Don't skimp or buy something used, especially if you don't know exactly what you are doing. The cost of doing so can ultimately be far more than you can afford. On top of that, learning to fire a stove well is an art unto itself, and every stove / chimney / available fuel combination is unique. I'm still learning nuances, almost 40 years later.

Also consider: wood may be a renewable resource (if properly managed), and may only seem cheap now, but as the costs of other forms of energy go up and demand for wood goes up (as well as the costs of 'production), guess what? That $150 full / $50 face cord of wood may well escalate until it too is "unaffordable". It is also possible that demand could exceed renewable supply, as is happening in Japan. England, before the age of coal, was virtually devoid of trees, and one of the greatest assets of the "New World" was good, straight, tall trees (lumber and ship masts). This could happen here too, especially if "everyone" starts burning wood, and even more probable because they aren't likely to be smart about it.

The secret, is not just 'alternative' energy to maintain your lifestyle, but alternative lifestyles to cut your energy "needs". Wood heat my LOOK attractive, but I'm afraid with so many scrambling for 'cheap alternatives', there is the potential for a re-run of the mid '70's "oil embargo" mindset, and a consequent rash of house fires by improperly installed or operated wood stoves. I hate to think how many 'cords' of lumber are required to replace a house - probably 4 or more winters worth in the right hands, not even considering all the fuel to transport materials and tradesmen and the electric needed to put it together - wasted and lost energy. Besides, I'd much rather sit home on a winter's night, tending my own stove, than to don my Nomex and attempt to save someone else's home (or family).

[nehimama]

Thank you, AndyN, for a well-written, thought-provoking piece.

NeHi

[Grace&Violets]

Thanks for posting this. I have thought a lot about getting a wood stove and you've given a lot of really good info and things to think about.

G&V

[mpillow]

Yes it is more than a chimney, a stove, wood and a flame....and the warm fuzzies...

Even if running safely they are a huge burn risk for small children....we have ours fully fenced off and the fire extinguisher very close by....controlling the draft or air is key to a good burn or getting a handle on the chimney fire.....

A wood stove is like a child that has tendencies to get into dangerous situations....you must be vigilant.

[Randy Rooster]

Not to be contrary, but Id bet more people have burned themselves up and/or their homes down by falling asleep with lit cigarettes or something left on the range.

[HomesteadBaker]

Thanks, Andy for posting this. I think you should submit your article to CS, I think it would be very timely and necessary!!

Kitty

[Henry]

Good to be safe but a wood heating system can be safe and wood can be cheap [free] to those who live in the right areas. We have heated and cooked exclusively with wood only appliances for 40 years. Just recently we upgraded all our stoves and chimneys. The improvements in units, chimneys and installation procedures make wood burning much safer than ever before. The trick is to educate yourself about the proper methods and maintain your stove and chimney properly.
I think the way people get into trouble is to go cheap on installation or not to work at maintaining the units properly.
Go to www.hearth.com you will find everything you need to have a safe system.

[Ernie]

While your article is well-written, I don't know how useful it is. A car that isn't in a well-maintained condition and in the hands of someone ignorant of its safe operation is a danger. So is an electric stove inside the house. So is your dishwasher, for that matter.

Yes, some people have burned down their homes or caught themselves on fire. Do you think that's something new in perhaps the last 40,000 years since man first learned how to harness fire? Perhaps to a fireman the world is full of fire hazards, just like how to a policeman the world is full of criminals. C'mon, Andy. We're not children here, and I'm willing to bet that the majority of people you find on a homesteading forum's survivalist subsection are a little bit better at figuring this sort of thing out than you're giving us credit for.

I felt Henry's succinct response to be of far more value. Summarized as "know what you're doing and keep your equipment in good, working order". Probably a good idea no matter what we're going to get into.

[RichieC]

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP.

I know that on our department, we are bracing for a tough winter. People with new woodstoves that they don't know how to use, burning scrap in their fireplaces, buying kerosene heaters or electric heating elements, an so on. Bad news.

Nor do I buy the notion that "homesteaders" are exempt. I think a key bit of Henry's post is this: "...the way people get into trouble is to go cheap on installation..." This is something your typical "homesteader" is easily as likely to be guilty of as anybody else. Using old stoves picked up on the side of the road without worrying about the cracked firebox, fabricating their own stoves from scrap steel without really understanding how they are supposed to work, burning green wood, doing a amatuerish job of do-it-yourself chimney sweeping...I could go on and on with dumb things a "homesteader" is likely to do.

Add to that the fact that a "homesteader" is more likely to live in a house not built to code, and yes, the "homesteading" world is full of fire dangers.

[Andy Nonymous]

Ernie, it's easy to forget that you and I and those names who regularly show up 'here' are not the only ones who visit and read - there are at least twice as many who lurk, and judging by the stats, HT is growing by leaps and bounds. It's also easy to 'assume' that just because people post here, that they have a base set of 'skills' that would make burning wood 'easy', and the resources necessary to do a safe installation: as the economy devolves, the likelihood of 'shortcuts' become even greater.

Yes, Henry's post is spot on - get good equipment, install it safely, check it regularly and know what you are doing sounds great, but how do YOU define "good equipment", or "a safe installation", or "proper knowledge"? My definition, my neighbor's definition, those whose homes were lost, all had different definitions, not all of which worked long term.

That I've burned wood for better than 30 years without igniting a dwelling doesn't mean that I will remain so successful, after all, my own stove isn't "installed to code" - when it was made in the '30's, there wasn't much of one, and the modern code is far too broad to cover all types and varieties of stove - I know, by long experience, that my installation is "safe", barring catastrophic failure, which is not likely, but still possible, even though I am proactive in using wood for heat. I also know of homes that have had gas leaks and blown up.

All forms of technology have their own risks, and wood, being one of the most variable of heat sources in quality and use, the hazards are by nature far greater in the hands of someone who lacks real hands on experience.

This is not to say that learning to burn wood for heat is impossible, but it is far from as "easy" as it seems.

[Andy Nonymous]

BTW, Randy, "there ain't no cure for stupid", and yes, recent statistics show cigarettes as one of the leading causes of home fires, with cooking right up there too. Interestingly enough, the mid 70's saw a sharp rise in "wood heat" as a cause, in some areas even leading the stats.

"Those who don't learn from history, are doomed to repeat it". I'm not against people using wood for heat, but am against people assuming "heating with wood is cheap and it ain't that hard to do" - wrong on both counts. Good equipment costs, and a safe installation costs, and those costs plus the time required have to be amortized into the equation.

Wood, even free wood, isn't "cheap" to heat with.

[diane]

Lots of good stuff on this thread. I have heated with wood all my adult life and I agree safety is always an issue. I tend to err on the side of caution with my stovepipe and clean it frequently. Skimping on installation, buying cheap woodburners, burning wood that has no business being in a woodstove, burning too hot, burning too cold.............the list goes on.

That said, house fires happen to folks that don't have woodstoves and those that do everything right. Good working smoke detectors belong in every home. Saved my folks lives.

I have a woodburning cookstove. It was pricy, as was the good stovepipe. There are going to be bunches of people who will heat with wood or be cold. Know your stove, know your wood and know how to burn it. Be obsessive about keeping the stovepipe clean and enjoy. For me it is the warmest and most comfortable heat in the world.

[Henry]

My thought is we are headed for major shock when it comes to future heating prices. People will have to switch to alternate systems. Wood is one of the few really sustainable sources of heat.
My position is it's best to help people do it right rather than be vague about how they will probably get into trouble.
I also differ in the notion that because I am a homesteader I do things on the cheap. I allocate my funds for the important things like a good heating system not the latest hotrod. All homesteaders do not live in shacks that will blow away in the first storm. My wife and I built our first log home in 70 doing everything from felling to plumbing and I will put it up against any of the modern pieces of junk.
The net gives us a good source of info and we all know that there some subjects that happen to have web sites of particular merit. Wood heat has one of those sites www.hearth.com that I mentioned earlier. They have many industry people who answer your questions accurately plus you canread about hundreds of people doing their own installs. This site is all about doing it safely. If you spend a week really trying to learn you will become knowledgeable about wood heat. Try searching their data base with any questions you might have about wood heating.

[RichieC]

Henry, you may not go the cheap route with important things, but many here do.

Do you really doubt we could find threads about heating with junk stoves, making stoves out of scrap, heating with green wood, cleaning your chimney without the proper tools, etc? Because I am quite sure I could find each and every one of those topics.

Don't even get me started on the life safety implications of some building techniques and technologies discussed on these threads routinely.

Andy made an excellent general point: burning wood for heat is not something to half-ass.

[Henry]

I think that was my point also. Do it right and it's safe. Also when it comes to correct info regarding safety issues due not rely on general web sites like this. Find the site the professionals use.
I could drive a car without any brakes to save money but it wouldn't be safe. Some might say having a gas water heater in your basement is asking for trouble.
Come on this is kids stuff if there is any safety issue learn the proper procedures.

[AngieM2]

Thank you Andy and Henry and others.

And the one that said HT is having lots of visitors and reader, more in this forum than ever before are lurking and reading. So, threads like this one help the ones that may just now be thinking of trying wood burning due to all the other sources going up in price so much.

The member numbers you see when you look at who is online, is about 1/2 of who is reading at any time.

Thanks again for really good issue to think about before using wood burning.

Angie

[tamsam]

One big problem that people get into is they go buy the heater and have it installed and then wonder where to get wood as they don't have any woods. I see the price of wood going up as more and more people switch to wood. Here if we had to buy the wood it would most likely be cheaper to heat with gas or electric. We use wood, coal, and gas as a back up when we have to leave and we never leave a hot fire in the heater when gone. Sam

[stanb999]

Originally Posted by RichieC

Henry, you may not go the cheap route with important things, but many here do.

Do you really doubt we could find threads about heating with junk stoves, making stoves out of scrap, heating with green wood, cleaning your chimney without the proper tools, etc? Because I am quite sure I could find each and every one of those topics.

Don't even get me started on the life safety implications of some building techniques and technologies discussed on these threads routinely.

Andy made an excellent general point: burning wood for heat is not something to half-ass.

Well I'll tell you what. When it comes to wood stoves, proper installation, use, wood curing, ect. We have a great history of smacking down those that would do it wrong. Go search the threads on the homesteading boards. Heck we have posted images of the proper chimney installation methods. Fire in a building isn't something to fool with.

If it's financially worth it. It's worth it to do it right.

[Randy Rooster]

Id like to know how many more people set themselves on fire or asphixiate themselves with kerosene heaters than wood stoves.

I think woodstoves are getting a bum rap here.

If anyone wants to burn wood and is that scared of it, you can get units that burn wood away from the house and pump the heat to the house.

For a person with wooded acreage, heating their home for the price of a woodstove and a chain saw is a no brainer.

[Ernie]

Originally Posted by Andy Nonymous

Ernie, it's easy to forget that you and I and those names who regularly show up 'here' are not the only ones who visit and read - there are at least twice as many who lurk, and judging by the stats, HT is growing by leaps and bounds. It's also easy to 'assume' that just because people post here, that they have a base set of 'skills' that would make burning wood 'easy', and the resources necessary to do a safe installation: as the economy devolves, the likelihood of 'shortcuts' become even greater.

Hrm, you're probably right. While I believe you're assuming too low of a competency level, I may be assuming too high of a competency level. The truth may be somewhere in between.

There's also another problem that I didn't think of when I initially responded but considered later ... many newer homes are built without wood heat in mind. They simply aren't designed for it. You've got few places to put a wood stove that isn't surrounded by cheap, highly flammable construction materials. My own home was built before WW2 and it had a lot of "off the grid" features that previous owners walled over and removed during the 1970's. I've spent a lot of money and effort so far trying to get back to the original model.

If everyone converted to wood tomorrow we'd have the same problems we're starting to see with ethanol. There wouldn't be enough wood. Forests would be denuded the very first winter. We'd be burning dried cowchips and walking 4 miles to gather up a handful of twigs.

Over and over again I keep coming up against this same problem ... the "solutions" I can affect in my own life aren't the same solutions for the rest of the world. There's simply too many people. We're way past our carrying capacity. The problem won't resolve itself until 1/3rd of the world's population freezes, starves, or shoots each other in a new world war. I just need to do what I can now to try and keep my family out of that 1/3rd.