"We'll never be able to retire!"

[TxMex]

This was what the late middle aged wife of my veterinarian stated while I was there paying my bill yesterday. I had to wait for quite a while and while I was waiting she received a call from a car dealership. Seems that they are buying and financing a new car.

When it was my turn I brought up the subject of retirement. She said they would never be able to retire. I said why on earth not? I know y'all make good money. She then proceeded to tell me that every time they started to get ahead that something would come up and about how they had just built a nice new home. I nodded my head and said...so you are addicted to debt. It looked like someone hit her in the back of the head with a board and then she started trying to defend their debt. This is a woman that is determined to keep up with the Jones's.

I then explained to her that I am retired and have been since I was 35. I also explained that the most important thing you can do to make yourself financially secure is to have NO DEBT!

I may have made an enemy. I really was trying to help. It is so very sad that people don't have a basic understanding of what to do or not to do with their finances. If I could add only one class to school curriculums it would be a class on how to manage finances in the real world.

[simplegirl]

I wish someone had said that to me about 20 years ago. I finally get it, at 50. But still trying to get away from debt as much as possible and making great strides and much better decisions.

You might have made an enemy, but you might have given her a lot to think about too.

[newfieannie]

the thing is they're all the time whinein about not having money or being able to retire etc. etc. but they just want to go on the same old way. there's my friend Lisa. she's spends money like it grows on trees.

she had a condo free and clear. sold that and is paying rent. spent the money she got from her condo. had a nice car. paid for. sold that and got a clunker. after she lost her husband she could have been on easy street. she kept asking me what she should do but wouldn't take any advice. she's in Florida now. probably got her credit cards maxed out.she's 67 and should have smartened up by this time. i know for a fact she has gone through all of her RRSP's. face lifts etc. i gave up on her. just gives me a headache. ~Georgia.

[where I want to]

Trouble is that a lot of people use buying things as a substitute for something they feel is wrong. Sometimes the only thing wrong is the misery of wanting something but you don't know what.
What is needed is a time out to get in touch with what really makes you happy then work on that and not just impulsively getting quick fixes by spending.

[jassytoo]

I hear that a lot too. How long do people think they can keep it up? Forced retirement, illness or just plain old age is gonna get you at some point. Then what?

[Big Dave]

TEX I want to learn.

[TxMex]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

TEX I want to learn.

Next time you are down this way accept my invite to meet for a cup of coffee...lol!

It's really simple. No debt...none. Do not pay interest. Use your windfalls. Invest to generate income.

[rxkeith]

i learned how to be smart about money from my parents.
dad quit school in 7th grade to help feed the family. mom didn't finish high school. both were children during the depression and knew real hardship.
they never bought anything on credit. mortgage for the house that was it.
never bought a new car until they were in their 70s. they lived within their means, and always had money on hand for emergencies. they never tried to keep up with anyone. they kept their financial house in order. always.

this is really basic stuff. some people just don't get it. dumber than trees my father in law would say.
the sooner you can eliminate debt from your life, the better your life will become.

semi retired at 50


keith

[emdeengee]

That is basically what my sister and her husband say only it is - we will retire next year - next year - next year. Well today BIL is 67. I don't think they will retire anytime soon simply because they are addicted to spending and debt and just can't save a dime. Over the past 8 years they inherited over $250,000 and have nothing to show for it except more debt. And my BIL has always had a very good six figure income. I have worried about them for years while they have not seemed to care. As my Mom used to say "don't care was made to care". I think that they are starting to realize the mess they are in and that there is no one left to bail them out. Very stressful for everyone.

[mom in oklahoma]

Hi all,
I was just talking to my husband about this, the plan I came up with was to,1.pay off credit cards-not with a loan,2 apply at least half of the money left from the credit cards to the van loan, after the van is paid off, start applying at least half of what is left after the van to the house. My husband told me that if I paid off the credit cards the way he used too, he always paid the balance evry month before we were married. I laughed and told him we could do that, but I needed a running total of what was put on the card, not the title, or not tell me I bought a press, I told him I needed an amount lol. My husband is wanting to retire in 15 yrs. Our insurance is pretty good, I figured we would deal with that hurdle when we came to it. So does it sound doable to you all? I am wanting to get our garden going better, groceries are getting more and more expensive. Should I rethink the no loan for the credit cards?
ttyl,
Rea

[Laura Zone 5]

Originally Posted by TxMex

This was what the late middle aged wife of my veterinarian stated while I was there paying my bill yesterday. I had to wait for quite a while and while I was waiting she received a call from a car dealership. Seems that they are buying and financing a new car.

When it was my turn I brought up the subject of retirement. She said they would never be able to retire. I said why on earth not? I know y'all make good money. She then proceeded to tell me that every time they started to get ahead that something would come up and about how they had just built a nice new home. I nodded my head and said...so you are addicted to debt. It looked like someone hit her in the back of the head with a board and then she started trying to defend their debt. This is a woman that is determined to keep up with the Jones's.

I then explained to her that I am retired and have been since I was 35. I also explained that the most important thing you can do to make yourself financially secure is to have NO DEBT!

I may have made an enemy. I really was trying to help. It is so very sad that people don't have a basic understanding of what to do or not to do with their finances. If I could add only one class to school curriculums it would be a class on how to manage finances in the real world.

I do not have a basic understanding.
I have started, and not finished the Dave Ramsey series a million times.
I didn't try to 'keep up with the jone's' but I did spend (overspend) for other foolish reasons.
I always fell back on "I can get a second job / pick up shifts".
My body will no longer allow me to work.

Now, I have last years debt, based on last years income.
This years income is 1/3 less than last year.

I was not taught good money skills by my folks.
I have repeated their mistakes.
I do not want to do that to my children.........

Is there a board / sub-board on Homesteading Today that deals with this topic?
I would love to learn.
Hi, my name is Laura, and I am addicted to debt.

[bourbonred]

Dave Ramsey has done it for us. We're debt free--completely--with DH retiring from public work to the farm next year at 46. It's what he's wanted all his life.

[Laura Zone 5]

Originally Posted by bourbonred

Dave Ramsey has done it for us. We're debt free--completely--with DH retiring from public work to the farm next year at 46. It's what he's wanted all his life.

I hear this ^^^^^ all the time....there must be something to it???

It would be very helpful to have a "Dave Ramsey-ish" type board on here so folks could really dig in deep and help each other out!!

[DanielY]

Saying everyone should live debt free is like saying there should only be chocolate ice cream. Living debt free is what you choose to do. In fact so do I. But that does not make it a better choice Some people are happy working. they spend their whole life doing it. I think it is arrogant to assume that others should live by the same choices you have made. How many people work for you? how many families are dependent on your success, and the income your business provides for them? What have you accomplished other than things for yourself since retiring at 35? None of the above questions are an important or an unimportant topic. they just are. and some people will choose to take them on. others don't I can put a huge negative self serving bent on your whole retired at 35 thing as well. Truth is it is what worked for you. But to start talking down at others because they do not make the same choice. that reveals something about you.

[TxMex]

Originally Posted by DanielY

Saying everyone should live debt free is like saying there should only be chocolate ice cream. Living debt free is what you choose to do. In fact so do I. But that does not make it a better choice Some people are happy working. they spend their whole life doing it. I think it is arrogant to assume that others should live by the same choices you have made. How many people work for you? how many families are dependent on your success, and the income your business provides for them? What have you accomplished other than things for yourself since retiring at 35? None of the above questions are an important or an unimportant topic. they just are. and some people will choose to take them on. others don't I can put a huge negative self serving bent on your whole retired at 35 thing as well. Truth is it is what worked for you. But to start talking down at others because they do not make the same choice. that reveals something about you.

Why the heck* did you take this and turn it into a personal attack on me? Especially since I am trying to help people! I have done nothing to you that I know of. You are also making a lot of assumptions without asking. This says a lot about YOU.

[TxMex]

I guess one of these days I need to see what the Dave Ramsey method is. I've pretty much figured out most of this on my own. Being raised by a penny pinching Granny didn't hurt

[Laura Zone 5]

Originally Posted by TxMex

I guess one of these days I need to see what the Dave Ramsey method is. I've pretty much figured out most of this on my own. Being raised by a penny pinching Granny didn't hurt

Envy line one.
Who would I talk to on Homesteading Today to see if there is a board that deals with budgeting/getting out of debt AND if there is not, how to start one??

[Karen]

I don't think it's so much that people are greedy or try to keep up with the Jones, rather it's because Americans have been taught that's the way to be.

For instance, kids nowadays are told to go into a ton of debt by going into a good college. Why? So they'll make more money. Imagine, they're told to go into debt before they even have income to pay on that debt -- all in the hope of making a few dollars more than the next guy. No one ever just tells them that the reason you should go to college is so you will have more choices in life and you don't need to go into debt to do that if you choose a sensible priced college.

Most American's have been raised by America telling them they are 'entitled' to the American dream. Not the dream of democracy and freedom -- the dream of a big house and new car.

Then Americans have so much advertising and debt related items (such as credit card coming in the mail in volumes and at the speed of light) that we're having 'debt' drummed into us.... not out of us!

But mostly, we've been told all our life (and mostly in school) that 'status' is everything. You're success in life is dependent and measured on how much 'stuff' you accumulate and how big it is. If you don't have it, it says your lazy, not educated enough, or just not ambitious. No one is telling them that true success doesn't have a single thing to do with money.

So I don't think we can blame people for not comprehending the connection between debt/finances and servantry. It isn't that they don't know, rather that they can't make the connection until it's too late and the reality of 'life' catches up to them.

No, I don't think debt isn't an addiction....it's a brainwashing.

Notice that those who do have their finances in order always seem to have it that way because someone else was a role model to them. Having that role model was stronger than all that other brainwashing going on around them. If you're not lucky enough to have a role model, you simply don't know any other way to show your 'success' in life.

[Big Dave]

Well said Ms Karen. Well said.

[TxMex]

Originally Posted by Laura Zone 5

Envy line one.
Who would I talk to on Homesteading Today to see if there is a board that deals with budgeting/getting out of debt AND if there is not, how to start one??

Laura I'd say that this forum is pretty suitable for that topic. We talk about it all the time. Why don't you start a thread with some specific questions and see how it goes.

I think that the idea of a forum just for that is a great idea. You might ask Shrek or Chuck about starting one.

[Teri]

Laura, do you read the tightwad tips thread in the Countryside forum each month? There's always a lot of great info there.

[jwal10]

There are 3 of us boys. We were poor, worked hard to make a living farming when growing up. Grandparents didn't have much, all payed for, they really enjoyed life. Moms inheritance went into the farm, only time parents had money was when they sold the farm, but didn't really do much to enjoy it. Older brother thinks more is better, farmed with Dad until the money ran out, now he has lots of old junky equipment and vehicles. Spends every dime before the end of the month. 5 kids all the same way. Barely gets by, always wants more. Younger brother is single, buys everything he wants, everything paid for, watches his pennies. He does not enjoy life much, always looking for the next $. We don't have a lot, everything is paid for, bought 4 new basic cars in 35 years, 2 were given to the kids and we replaced them with new. Latest is a basic 2006 HHR panel, paid $12,000. We bought property, saved 1/2 my pay check every month. Live happily with family heirlooms. Had a $60,000 a yr job while the kids were in school. Retired at 55 and work part time, can take vacations when we want to now. We are each different, older brother enjoys his childhood memories and working on "stuff" all the time, great mechanic. Younger brother has someone else work on everything, he has 3 vehicles, all bought older with high milage now. We have 1 vehicle, maintained well. All grew up in the same house same parents, same grandparents. Each spent their money as it made them happy. To each his own....James

[WJMartin]

Laura, if I guess correctly you're looking for not just suggestions but a place to be accountable, like a Weight Watchers meeting, we'll call it Debt Watchers. You might try the Dave Ramsey web site and look for churches that are using his program. It is a 13 week program, I think, meeting weekly or something along those lines, it's been a few years since we participated. His plan is snowballing, much like post #10, list all your debt smallest to largest and include interest rates, apply all cash available to smallest debt and pay it off asap, then apply the money that you would have been using to pay that debt and apply it to the next smallest debt plus whatever extra you can find. He also incourages people to look hard at what they should sell to lower their debt, things that they really can't afford, like cars, houses, boats ect. His first advice is to cut up all credit cards but one if you can get one with no interest, freeze it or put it somewhere you can't get to it easily, just for emergencies, but only until you get some savings put aside.

In your case with decreased income, list all debt, what can you sell to get rid of that debt? If you feel your housing is more than you can afford you may need some professional guidence, realator, pastor ect. Can you sell your car and use public trans? If it is credit card debt you may be able to negotiate a settlement when you are behind in payment and if you have cash, this can sometimes be 50% of original amount. I have heard alot of people have been able to get their interest rates lowered but I have never tried that. While interest rates are important, it's more important to not have more debt than you can pay, it's also less stressful.

Make a list of monthly expenses and then consider ways to lower those expenses. Monthly expenses are not debt, we all need to eat, have a roof, have insurance, clothing ect. but we can put aside our expectations of lobster and go fishing for perch.

Rule #1, stop adding to your debt for any reason and this includes overdraft charges, ATM charges, late payment charges ect.

Consider going to a cash only diet, it takes some getting used to but when the cash is gone so is the spending. You may need to make use of the local food bank to get through a bad week until you get things cleaned up. That's OK, when you can you donate back to them or volunteer. (Running out of what you want right now is NOT an emergency!!) Some people have success with seperating into envelopes the cash for each expense, housing, food, gas, car, savings, ect.

Not everyone does well on cash only, they spend the cash and then use the credit cards or debit card and overdraw, be honest with yourself why you won't stay on a budget or why it isn't important enough to pay attention to how you spend your money. When you work on a budget do you get bored and disinterested or nervous, think about it.

Consider looking locally for a finacial group meeting, usually a church, I just sense that you're loooking for someway to be held accountable and that usually needs face to face.

If taking all this on at once is overwhelming then try one at a time. Food is a good place to start. Keep a list of every penny you spend on food for a week, you can do this by saving all the reciepts and then adding them up. Look at the list, is this how much you want to be spending for food? What can you do differently? Do you make out a weekly menu? Do you go out often? What percentage of your income is spent on food? How does that work for you? As you learn how to get a food budget working you'll gain insight and confidence so you can get a whole budget together.

Our grands think that we are rich, we're not, we just don't waste our money, no cable, no cigs, small amount of alcohol, grow our own food, cash only, get up and go to work, actually DH goes to work - I stay home and play with the grands and dole out advise but I always kiss him on his way out the door!

[Pearl B]

If I could add only one class to school curriculums it would be a class on how to manage finances in the real world.

The TPTB and certainly the banking institutions survive by peoples ignorance on how to live debt free. A subject like that would never be allowed to be taught in public schools.

Though it would certainly probably be the most valuable thing a school could teach.

[idigbeets]

I've gone to cash only... I do get a paycheck, so I maintain a savings acct w/ $100 in it so I can cash that check. I'm in my 30's, work a small farm, and live on a few hundred a month. I hope to be retired before I'm 50 and am on track to do that. Eliminating debt was a huge part of it. I paid off a lot of debt, other I let go into delinquency (from 1st marriage, where most debt was accrued) so I could get a reduced pay off amount. I mean.. if I don't care about credit cards, buying new things, who cares if my "credit report" is fudged for 7 years?? After a year or two of not paying on a credit card, they cut 50-70% off the total debt, which was exactly what I was looking for. I know some of you will view that as cheating them out of money that I already used to buy something... however they also raise rates for years on debt regardless of how well you pay on it. My first credit card was 6%, by the time I was divorced (almost 10 years later) that same CC was over 12%. I was never late etc, but the rates climbed. When I was divorced, money was tight and it made more sense to make my move to cash only then, let debts go and then pay them off w/ cash that I had saved by NOT paying on that debt.

[Teri]

Taking the Dave Ramsey course at a local church was the thing that motivated us to get out of debt and stay that way. It's very motivational! We've paid off all debt and are actually saving money now even though our income has dropped rather dramatically.
The cash-only lifestyle is the only way to go!

[emdeengee]

Personal finances are very frightening to many so they don't look. And often they don't look because that would tell them the truth and the truth would force them to change their ways and they really don't want to. You would be amazed at how many people don't know what they earn and what they spend and what they owe. It takes a very short amount of time and small effort to figure out the numbers. Just look at your pay and bills. The truth is that managing your money is not rocket science. It is discipline.
Another really great finance expert besides Ramsey is Gail VazOxlade. Her web site gives you all the tools and information you need to get started to debt free and savings rich and it is all free.
My husband and I were typical credit junkies of our generation. Spend it all and more and had a great time but sooner or later it all came crashing down because if there was a foolish, selfish or negligent thing to do with our money we did it. Today, thanks to Gail, we are debt free and savings - well not riich yet but I do have to look at the number twice and pinch myself.

TxMex is 100% correct and too bad if it annoys some. You are only financially secure if you are debt free. And being debt free with savings gives you freedom that you never have if you are servicing debt. And debt free means you can tell anyone to go to hell including bosses and banks.

[Karen]

Actually, debt isn't such a hard concept to grasp. The formula is simple:

live on less than you make and apply the difference to the debt and save some too.

There's no secret recipe or magic wand.

It's a bit hard to understand why people need courses, books, etc. (unless you honestly don't know how to make out a budget plan). Every adult knows the formula, they just choose not to follow it. They just don't want to do whatever it takes, and give up whatever it takes, to get out of debt and stay out of debt.

Yes, things always seem to come along to mess up the formula; but you can't let those setbacks control you. You revise the budget, give up or sell something else if you must, and jump back in.

Also, don't let 'time' control you either. Many people just feel it will take so many years of doing without that it isn't worth it; and that's their choice. But then they can't complain about being in debt. Getting out of debt takes however long it takes. View it as you're in slavery and you're determined to win your freedom and independence.

[Sawmill Jim]

My old Uncle use to say some people though there is a law against having money and they didn't want to get caught breaking the law

Another of his was on helping out speedy children .He said there is no way you can give it to some as fast as they can spend it .

Most of my debt was equipment to make money .Wouldn't even have this fancy computer if son hadn't donated it . I have seen many a person drive a car or truck to work that would take all of three years of their pay just for their ride to work .

[Laura Zone 5]

Originally Posted by WJMartin

Laura, if I guess correctly you're looking for not just suggestions but a place to be accountable, like a Weight Watchers meeting, we'll call it Debt Watchers. You might try the Dave Ramsey web site and look for churches that are using his program. It is a 13 week program, I think, meeting weekly or something along those lines, it's been a few years since we participated. His plan is snowballing, much like post #10, list all your debt smallest to largest and include interest rates, apply all cash available to smallest debt and pay it off asap, then apply the money that you would have been using to pay that debt and apply it to the next smallest debt plus whatever extra you can find. He also incourages people to look hard at what they should sell to lower their debt, things that they really can't afford, like cars, houses, boats ect. His first advice is to cut up all credit cards but one if you can get one with no interest, freeze it or put it somewhere you can't get to it easily, just for emergencies, but only until you get some savings put aside.

In your case with decreased income, list all debt, what can you sell to get rid of that debt? If you feel your housing is more than you can afford you may need some professional guidence, realator, pastor ect. Can you sell your car and use public trans? If it is credit card debt you may be able to negotiate a settlement when you are behind in payment and if you have cash, this can sometimes be 50% of original amount. I have heard alot of people have been able to get their interest rates lowered but I have never tried that. While interest rates are important, it's more important to not have more debt than you can pay, it's also less stressful.

Make a list of monthly expenses and then consider ways to lower those expenses. Monthly expenses are not debt, we all need to eat, have a roof, have insurance, clothing ect. but we can put aside our expectations of lobster and go fishing for perch.

Rule #1, stop adding to your debt for any reason and this includes overdraft charges, ATM charges, late payment charges ect.

Consider going to a cash only diet, it takes some getting used to but when the cash is gone so is the spending. You may need to make use of the local food bank to get through a bad week until you get things cleaned up. That's OK, when you can you donate back to them or volunteer. (Running out of what you want right now is NOT an emergency!!) Some people have success with seperating into envelopes the cash for each expense, housing, food, gas, car, savings, ect.

Not everyone does well on cash only, they spend the cash and then use the credit cards or debit card and overdraw, be honest with yourself why you won't stay on a budget or why it isn't important enough to pay attention to how you spend your money. When you work on a budget do you get bored and disinterested or nervous, think about it.

Consider looking locally for a finacial group meeting, usually a church, I just sense that you're loooking for someway to be held accountable and that usually needs face to face.

If taking all this on at once is overwhelming then try one at a time. Food is a good place to start. Keep a list of every penny you spend on food for a week, you can do this by saving all the reciepts and then adding them up. Look at the list, is this how much you want to be spending for food? What can you do differently? Do you make out a weekly menu? Do you go out often? What percentage of your income is spent on food? How does that work for you? As you learn how to get a food budget working you'll gain insight and confidence so you can get a whole budget together.

Our grands think that we are rich, we're not, we just don't waste our money, no cable, no cigs, small amount of alcohol, grow our own food, cash only, get up and go to work, actually DH goes to work - I stay home and play with the grands and dole out advise but I always kiss him on his way out the door!

WJM thank you so much! Yes this is a lot of what I am looking for.
A community of folks who help each other a long, and prop each other up when they are struggling.