Globalization and the liberal agenda

[where I want to]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sagging-...-a-skills-gap/

No matter how many times a liberal agenda is forced to face reality, it always ends up in the same place.

The above link is about the "change in direction" of university economic theorists. Seems they previously held, with great authority, that globalization did not cause the suppression of US wages. According to their theories, it was that manufacturing was simply being taken over by machines. So that the solution to this "machine culture" was to better educate people so they could do jobs supporting the machine rather than try to compete with the machine. The fact that China grew by leaps and bounds doing the jobs the US used to do was irrelevant.

Now the latest change of theory is that competition with China is what has held down wages in the US after all. (Duh.)

But what is interesting is the proposed solution. To the problem of low wages their theories helped to create wholesale. It is- ready for this? - to provide more welfare for those harmed by globalization.

Previously the academics advocated only more education, which incidently, just incidently, benefited them and their universities Now they still recommend education but want to add welfare for those harmed, through no fault of their own, by the academic's insistence on their previous erroneous theories.

The simple solution of preservation of the US worker is not even considered. No, the liberal academic solution is to keep creating a subservient class of American citizen who can not live by his own labor so that, having ripped the bread from their mouths, you can then offer them the crumbs you chose. If I sound bitter, I am.

[HDRider]

We should rename the two primary political parties.

One should be the Common Sense Party

The other should be the Nonesense Party.

I'll leave to the reader to match the new names to the old names.

[HDRider]

This gave me an idea. I'll leave it to you to divine its brilliance, or the lack thereof.

Assume we have one million people on some kind of government payment, not retirement but unemployment, welfare, disability, food stamps, whatever.

Take them all off the government easy payment plan.

Now for the real hold your nose part.

Pass a law that each company, foreign or domestics, according to their size, proportionately hire those people at some mandated wage.

The company can decide what jobs the folks do and what disciplinary/reward measure should be taken related to performance.

Now I will really take some of you out of your comfort zones. Don't tell me why this will NOT work. Tell me what will MAKE it work.

Criticism is easy. We can all do that. Contributing in a positive way is hard, some simply cannot do it.

[Cornhusker]

I think that people on welfare should be doing a little work for their money.
For instance, I see pictures of neighborhoods with garbage in the street, on the sidewalks, junk laying around, weeds everywhere and people just hanging out not doing a thing about it.
Why not make those people clean the place up, maybe they'd take a little pride in themselves.
Just a thought.
We pay people to mow the parks, things like that, why not use the people already on the payroll?

[where I want to]

Originally Posted by Cornhusker

I think that people on welfare should be doing a little work for their money.
For instance, I see pictures of neighborhoods with garbage in the street, on the sidewalks, junk laying around, weeds everywhere and people just hanging out not doing a thing about it.
Why not make those people clean the place up, maybe they'd take a little pride in themselves.
Just a thought.
We pay people to mow the parks, things like that, why not use the people already on the payroll?

The trouble with that idea is always the same. It would take 2 government employees at least to insure that 1 non-working person shows up at all- 1 to organize the work and 1 to deal with the excuses. Then you'd have to deal with the law suits when that non-working person gets 'hurt' on the job. Then you would need to provide babysitting services. Transportation. Work clothes. Toilet facilities. Etc etc etc......

[where I want to]

Originally Posted by HDRider

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]

Pass a law that each company, foreign or domestics, according to their size, proportionately hire those people at some mandated wage.

The company can decide what jobs the folks do and what disciplinary/reward measure should be taken related to performance.

Now I will really take some of you out of your comfort zones. Don't tell me why this will NOT work. Tell me what will MAKE it work.

Criticism is easy. We can all do that. Contributing in a positive way is hard, some simply cannot do it.

We really had such a plan- it was called tariffs. It came down to 'employ people here or pay more to sell here.'

Anyone who has raised a child knows the battle involved in getting people to do unpleasant things like work when they don't want to do it. You either start early, with firmness, and get them accustomed to it or you deal with all their effort going in avoiding it.

The only way I can see to make people know the reward of work, and therefore do it without being more trouble than it's worth, is to make sure that work is honored, non-work is socially despised.
You'd have to strong enough to not listen to the endless sob stories and excuses, provide only the bare neccessities of life as welfare, be willing to accept that some can not be lifted out of their problems and let them go.

Can you see that ever happening in a world where a 60% share of the working people are in the business for taking care of the 20% who don't?

[1shotwade]

Help me out here for a moment! Refresh my memory! Didn't one of our great past presidents already fix this?Remember,it's no longer welfare, now it is "workfare"!!I know I saw it somewhere! Didn't they have to work so many hours to get a welfare check?What happened?We shouldn't have to be talking about fixing a program that is already fixed! I'm confused!


Wade

[copperkid3]

Originally Posted by Cornhusker

I think that people on welfare should be doing a little work for their money.
For instance, I see pictures of neighborhoods with garbage in the street, on the sidewalks, junk laying around, weeds everywhere and people just hanging out not doing a thing about it.
Why not make those people clean the place up, maybe they'd take a little pride in themselves.
Just a thought.
We pay people to mow the parks, things like that, why not use the people already on the payroll?

********************
"doing a little work".

If they had to do a LOT of work for the mere pittance they're
receiving, then it might prove to be the motivational incentive
for the majority of them, to get off their duffs and either get
a real job or start their own companies....if you're going to
sweat, you might as well get paid to do so.

No workie......no eattie.

[MO_cows]

Originally Posted by where I want to

The trouble with that idea is always the same. It would take 2 government employees at least to insure that 1 non-working person shows up at all- 1 to organize the work and 1 to deal with the excuses. Then you'd have to deal with the law suits when that non-working person gets 'hurt' on the job. Then you would need to provide babysitting services. Transportation. Work clothes. Toilet facilities. Etc etc etc......

That's all very true on the front end. However, over time I think it would move more people to work in the private sector. Because they no longer would have a choice between "work" and "don't work". Rather, it becomes a choice between "this work" or "that work". And if it's done well, there would be some savings on the payrolls where the public assistance recipient is doing work instead of a municipal employee. And it's a move in the right direction for society at large. We stop sending the message that there is a free ride.

[Sawmill Jim]

Originally Posted by HDRider

This gave me an idea. I'll leave it to you to divine its brilliance, or the lack thereof.

Assume we have one million people on some kind of government payment, not retirement but unemployment, welfare, disability, food stamps, whatever.

Take them all off the government easy payment plan.

Now for the real hold your nose part.

Pass a law that each company, foreign or domestics, according to their size, proportionately hire those people at some mandated wage.

The company can decide what jobs the folks do and what disciplinary/reward measure should be taken related to performance.

Now I will really take some of you out of your comfort zones. Don't tell me why this will NOT work. Tell me what will MAKE it work.

Criticism is easy. We can all do that. Contributing in a positive way is hard, some simply cannot do it.

Thing about mandated wages there are a lot out there you would lose money if they paid you to work for you . That is where the minimum wage is a farce . I have had workers at the sawmill couldn't put one plank on the other without instructions on ever other plank .

Just pass a law called root hog or die .

[where I want to]

That's all a nice idea but, like the liberal fantasizers who believe everyone would be a productive citizen if the social ills are addressed, it won't work with people who will wear out any system with excuses, complaints and lawyers. A person determined to fail at work will do so unless the authorities are willing to use chain gang brutality.

So again I say the only workable solution to the determinedly unproductive is social pressure and minimize freebies to subsistence only.

And that is only politically possible if workers are respected as much as the rich and the poor. And that means not burdening working people with laws that make them unable to compete with countries who don't create those burdens while simultaneously making laws to protect outside interests from responsibility to this country.

[Ozarks Tom]

The very bottom line of any work/employment scheme has to be the production of a profit. Putting someone to work who's already on welfare doing something that doesn't produce anything is just trading dollars.

The jobs that are missing from our economy produced products, making companies money. Even communist economies realize the need for profit, except it's the state that makes the profit.

The whole idea of putting welfare people to work in a situation where non-welfare people would be employed to manage them reminds me of a tradition a friend and I had. Back many years ago when neither of us had much money, we'd put $5 bills in cards at Christmas. After we started doing better, we'd trade $20s.

[1shotwade]

I can't speak for others on here but for me it's the idea of breaking the "welfare mentality"! It's a generational thing. Same last name for generations that know what to do and what to say and just how far to push things and stay on government assistance for a lifetime.It's not a year or two,these people will never get of welfare and will never want to get off welfare!
I thought when the big "workfare" program started back when it was actually going to get somewhere but it seams that's been side tracked!There are a very,very few people that actually should be receiving assistance without going out and doing something.Health issues and conditions make it very difficult for some,but that is a very small percentage.For God's sake,even Hellen Keller lived a productive life!Now I know there are lots of folks on welfare that are bunches better off than her.Maybe they have conditions that keep them from doing a lot but they are not made to try!
I worked in mental health for a while. There was one couple that were married and both were on SSI. For 6 years that I was around them ,they took turns being confined to a mental health ward for months at a time.If she was in and scheduled to be released you to take it to the bank that he would be admitted within a week.They have done this their whole life and will never change. Gamming the system,and there's many that do.So I say put them to work doing anything to make it undesirable to be on welfare!


Wade

[HDRider]

So much for asking for help on a solution that must be worse than we have now I guess.

[Sawmill Jim]

Originally Posted by HDRider

So much for asking for help on a solution that must be worse than we have now I guess.

Think it goes back to you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink When this country started to dole out free goods to healthy people ,history itself says it is only a matter of time before total collapse .

What point are we at

[Ozarks Tom]

Originally Posted by HDRider

So much for asking for help on a solution that must be worse than we have now I guess.

When it's more profitable to the individual to work than be on a minimized version of welfare, most people will at least try working. If it's so uncomfortable both financially and socially to be on welfare things will change. Not until.

As to jobs going overseas, things have a way of evening out. The wages manufacturers in China are paying today are much higher than even 10 years ago. Add in freight, and the scales are beginning to level. Not a great answer to the problem, but it's the only one I see.

[michael ark]

Education and the return of manufacturing jobs will be the only thing that fix this .The only way i know that we could do this is tell china to pound sand we no longer deal with communist countries .They would not temp war right now we have the most battle harden force of any country and they dont have the resources like we do.Russia would not saying anything because of them trying to reform the U.S.S.R right now .Or maybe we could close the IRS and run the government on taxing imports.There's are all kinds of ways this could be dealt with but no one has the fortitude to do anything .

[where I want to]

Originally Posted by MO_cows

That's all very true on the front end. However, over time I think it would move more people to work in the private sector. Because they no longer would have a choice between "work" and "don't work". Rather, it becomes a choice between "this work" or "that work". And if it's done well, there would be some savings on the payrolls where the public assistance recipient is doing work instead of a municipal employee. And it's a move in the right direction for society at large. We stop sending the message that there is a free ride.

I would point out that it hasn't worked no matter how many times it's tried. Unless you are prepared to watch children starve or take them away from their parents, you will have parents living in money paid to support children until the children are adults. Who will have a child of their own by then.

Let me tell you the litany of how it goes- from having watched it.

1) new rule you must put in x hours of work to get a benefit.
2) recipient- I can't get to a job because I don't have a car and no bus runs close enough.
3) gov arranges transportation
4) recipient misses bus
5) gov reschedules transportation
6) r. (Abbrv for convenience) misses bus
7) g. (Abbrv for convenience) send notice that bens will terminate unless r gets to job next time and reschedules
8) bens terminate without response and r finally contacts so
9l g. Reschedules and r. Finally shows up and has orientation
10) next day r. Misses transportation
11) g sends final notice of two month suspension of bene
12) r contacts press and local advocate, and lots of bad press is published about how mean agency cut off bene to poor, disadvantaged family without notice- a lie but g. Is prevented by privacy rules from refuting lie.
13) advocate files appeal and demands reinstatement til hearing, which is done because those are the rules established by previous court cases
14) at hearing, many months down the road, r and his advocate say they have child care issues and can't leave the kids with the irresponsible (grandmother, significant other or friend.)
15) g arranges child care and transportation per judge's order
16) r goes to job for two days then fails to show up but calls to say that child is sick and r must stay with them
17) r goes one day then calls they got the kid's cold and can't come in
18) g requests doctor excuse but r says they can see a doctor because 1) no child care and 2) they have no transportation.
Of course all this time, g must either hold open job or fill with another. But back to r-

19) r shows for work but slips on wet floor and sprains back!
20) r sues g, g worker, job supervisor, etc
21 ) r files for permanent disability........

Now you have spent a hundred thousand g dollars and r will never work. In fact you actually consider yourself lucky It's over because r got into physical fights the few times r came, equipment mysteriously disappeared and you couldn't get any other work done while you were trying to get r to work.

And r has not even used the golden standards of 'the car broke down' or I was in jail' yet.

These are peopke who don't want to work. As was previously said, you can drive them to the job but nothing ever gets done.

[plowjockey]

Hmmm. Let's see.

Auto mfg painters, assemblers and welders, railroad brakemen, signalmen, firemen, gandy dancers. telephone operators, toll collectors, meter readers. bank tellers, receptionists, accountants, typists, farm hands. vegetable pickers, printers. newspapers reporters, tv cameramen. fighter pilots. tax preparer. lawyers, store clerks, astronauts. soldiers. teachers. pharmacists, surgeons.

Think up 100 other careers gone.

No, technology has no effect on the loss of jobs here in the U.S.

[where I want to]

Soft wear engineers, computer repairmen, website designers, internet sale virtual stores, systems analysts, shipping and delivery companies, etc came to replace them.

China has lots of manufacturing jobs. Hmmmmmmm.............