My Solution For Eliminating Fed Housing !!!!!

[fordy]

...........The Fed's continue to support The Housing Projects where many , many Occupants who are fully capable of working are allowed to LIVE and NEVER required to pay RENT . IN addition , IT seems that multiple generations of occupants with NO fathers , just mothers are allowed to occupy these apartments as well ! Drugs , contraband , killings are all a normal every day facet of life in the 'Project' !
............IT seems NO Politican has the testicles to remove the funding for these multi story creations of the WELFARE MENTALITY ! These people should be evicted and these momuments to failed social engineering should be IMploded and removed from the land scape ! The rest of the country is expected to find a JOB and work to obtain the necessities of life . Basically these creations are an INsult to everyone who has to find a job.......what makes these folks different from the rest of the country ? fordy

[Old Vet]

Originally Posted by fordy

...........The Fed's continue to support The Housing Projects where many , many Occupants who are fully capable of working are allowed to LIVE and NEVER required to pay RENT . IN addition , IT seems that multiple generations of occupants with NO fathers , just mothers are allowed to occupy these apartments as well ! Drugs , contraband , killings are all a normal every day facet of life in the 'Project' !
............IT seems NO Politican has the testicles to remove the funding for these multi story creations of the WELFARE MENTALITY ! These people should be evicted and these momuments to failed social engineering should be IMploded and removed from the land scape ! The rest of the country is expected to find a JOB and work to obtain the necessities of life . Basically these creations are an INsult to everyone who has to find a job.......what makes these folks different from the rest of the country ? fordy

But but it is for the children.

[where I want to]

Public housing has it's problems but I can't see any real alternative. California mandates a certain number of low cost housing units in every general plan. Sometimes they work, sometimes they form instant drug ridden slums.
But the latest evolution of "fixing" the housing problems is to move people individually into upper scale areas on the tax payer's dime. And of course a lot of the time that moves the drugs, and violence to the neighborhood too. It is a persistent belief of social lobbyists that the problem never lies with the individual, so after every failure of the previous plan, they come up with another one.

[fordy]

Originally Posted by where I want to

Public housing has it's problems but I can't see any real alternative. California mandates a certain number of low cost housing units in every general plan. Sometimes they work, sometimes they form instant drug ridden slums.
But the latest evolution of "fixing" the housing problems is to move people individually into upper scale areas on the tax payer's dime. And of course a lot of the time that moves the drugs, and violence to the neighborhood too. It is a persistent belief of social lobbyists that the problem never lies with the individual, so after every failure of the previous plan, they come up with another one.

..............One of the primary reasons of getting rid of the large , multistory buildings is to (1)Put ALL able bodied folks into the rat race and force them to find a JOB , (2) for the truly needy , they can be relocated into apartments that cater to their needs , (3)Fed. Housing Authorities should quit adopting the 'Sardines in a Can" attitude and quit building multi level apartment complexes that supply housing for able bodied individuals .
...............How long does it take the Feds to figure out that everyone who can work has to take responsibility , for themselves ? When a person is just provided housing , utilities , food stamps etc. and never required to do anything to better themselves , or accept an assignment to some form of technical training programs then it's time to say Bye Bye .
................For mothers with children , they should be tested , evaluated and provided housing and child care until they successfully complete a training program and then given adequate preparation in securing employment . It should be emphasized that this program is a one shot deal . And , no more illegitimate babies from worthless fathers with NO names . Everybody gets ONE chance to retrain so they can find a job , after that , they are on their own . , fordy

[Tabitha]

Fear not, change is on the way.
Haven't you hard that the projects as such is a bad idea and project dwellers are being moved into regular housing. You get come kind of rent voucher if you qualify, because you obviously can not pay the rent.
A girl I know had this happen in the apt. complex where she lived. Not only did a neighbor regularly open his door, expose himself and invite her inside, ( he must think all the commercials that have women swoon over the sexual prowess of his kind are totally true,so what was wrong with that woman). Several apts. including hers, while she was staying with us, caught on fire. She was not allowed in her apt. by the police, after several weeks of this, she just went in and found her apt was filled with stolen goods, TVs, etc.
Welcome to section 8 housing in your neighborhood.

[Bast]

When I was discharged from the Army (honorably btw) I had a spinal injury. Now, you would think that having a spinal injury from my time in the Military, I would qualify for disability and care. This was not the case. "There is no record of the Training Accident you are referring to." That was my answer for years. So, what to do? Well, work of course. So I worked, but it's pretty hard getting a decent job. For some reason I would be told that I was "over qualified" for most jobs I applied for. (that burned my ass). But, I kept applying at the things I was trained for and even things I wasn't. I applied for every job that was available. Unemployment ran out of course, but I kept looking. Ended up on food stamps for awhile (yes, I was a lazy taker) But, I kept looking. I started taking jobs with Temp Services, but those are never steady. It began that I had to make choices between paying rent, or paying for heat which sucks when you have children.

The lowest point was when I applied for Housing. Here I was, an ex-soldier who had sacrificed my own spine for this great country, and I had to suffer through the looks that those who were more fortunate would give when I entered those offices. It was annoying. Being judged. Having that person across the desk think that they had you figured out already. Being stereotyped because of Color, Sex, assumptions.

This person had no idea that I would take jobs that no one with a spinal injury should ever take. That I would get home from work in so much pain that all I could do was lay in the middle of the floor and cry for an hour. That my children had to cook meals because I had to rest for the next day of abusing my body. But that's what you do when you have a family and can't find a job even when you are 'overqualified"

Finally got to the point that one day I'm cooking and my legs went dead up under me. That's a pretty scary feeling. To be standing one moment and flat on the floor with no feeling in your legs the next. So, of course, I wasn't going to work the next day and of course I get fired. Army is still saying that my medical records are lost and it's been a few years.

So now what? I still have a family to support right? So, I bite the bullet, get back on my feet and learn to drive an 18wheeler. Worse job for someone with a spinal injury but what can you do right? I'm not going back to that office to apply for welfare. Even though it would have meant that I would get medical care. No way, not with the way they look at you and think they know your whole story. Anyway, I get my CDL, but there's one obstacle. DOT Physical. The free clinic doc isn't going to sign off on it. He says that there's no way he would because I will paralyze myself in a couple of weeks and it would be his license. Fine, so I spend money I don't have to go to a doc that doesn't know my issues and git r dun.

I proudly can declare that I made a liar out of the clinic doc. I made it 16 years. 16 years of driving while in pain 24 hours a day 7 days a week. 16 years of pain that would get so bad that at times I would consider suicide to escape it. 16 years but I saw my children make it through school and have families of their own. 16 years of hell, just so that I wouldn't be judged by some jackass behind a desk, or at the counter at the grocery store who thought they knew everything about me.

September 17 2007 was the last day I drove a truck. I was in a grocery store looking over some canned vegetables and lost feeling to my legs, then pain so bad that I was still screaming 30 minutes later when they got me to the ER. This time however, it didn't stop. I wasn't up a few days later like I was in the past. Nope, this was it. I was in a wheelchair. Joy. Now what? No job, job skills from the past were out of date and I'm a black female. Hmm.

Well. I stayed with a couple of my kids for awhile, but I didn't want to be a burden to them. Heard about a kickass DAV rep in Seattle so that's where I needed to be. Lived in Seattle for a year but, rents are so high that you can't really afford anything inside the city without that help from subsidized housing, and the list to get into subsidized housing was 2 years long. So, it was a shelter for me. Let me tell you. Being homeless, on the streets, in a wheelchair, in a strange city is not fun. But, you do what you have to do when you have no other options right?

That DAV rep in Seattle was the miracle worker that everyone in Texas claimed she was though. She went page by page through my admin jacket until she found a reference to a delay in my deployment to Korea due to a spinal injury. Hallelujah!
But, just finding it isn't enough, now she had to file. That took 8 more months of living on the streets, surviving on food stamps, spending time in the day shelter when it rained or snowed. Getting kicked out of the library when trying to get warm. Being followed around in the store just in case I was a thief. Yea, had to deal with a lot of that, but it was worth it when the VA said that I was 100% disabled. Bittersweet really. Few weeks later my medical records mysteriously reappeared and I got to speak to a neurosurgeon. Too late though, too late. If I had gotten help for my injury maybe 10 years earlier they could do something about the god-awful constant pain. But now, too late. Yea, you might point out that I was working and should have gotten insurance to deal with it. But, there was that little problem about a Pre-existing condition, and then any insurance that would cover me being so expensive that I would have to choose between bills and care. Bills and my children came first every time. So, here I was, permanent nerve damage. Eh, they can repair the spine, but the nerves were a done deal.

I get by alright now. The VA has me on morphine 3 times a day, there are pills that help with the constant nerve pain, I even got a cool electric wheelchair. Sometimes though, I get a little ------. I paid for Blue Cross Blue Shield for 16 years and this could have been avoided, but they wouldn't dare actually let the insurance I paid for pay for something I needed. Now, the VA gives me all the care that I need. I do wonder however. How many other people out there are going through what I've gone through.

Now, there are lazy people out there that need to get a job, just like there are lazy people everywhere. But, who are any of us to THINK we know that every person out there that has to take advantage of a social program, or food stamps, or even welfare has no right to that help?

The problem I am having with what I am hearing however is this. I worked, I had insurance, and it was all for nothing. I served in order to protect this country from enemies foreign and domestic, and I have watched as this country was torn apart by greed and ignorance and rhetoric. I'm not saying that the people here are ignorant. No, but so many are being kept in ignorance.

Who is our enemy. Really?

Is it the welfare moms who pulls in 500 a month in food and rental assistance? Or is it the Businesses who have our government representatives bought and paid for. Pay a pittance in taxes, send jobs overseas, hide profits in offshore accounts , own the news stations, and then have the audacity to claim that the unemployed are only unemployed because they are lazy. Yes, some are lazy, but then again, we've been in a recession since . How do you get a job when it's been sent overseas hmm? Right to Work laws were really just a "right to be fired for any reason at all" law. Unions used to be able to protect the working man, but those have been wiped out more and more by 'bought and paid for" officials. But when did they stop being the problem, and the "other' become the problem?

Anyone 'other" is who is taking everything from you. Other religion, other color, other philosophy, other sexuality. Other , Other, Other... instead of the one that actually has the power and is using it to screw every single one of us over without benefit of lube or even a kiss on the cheek.

The hate here is actually painful to read. While we hate everyone around us who is different, we are doing exactly what we are expected to do. Be distracted by who the real problem is, and who is really bending you over that rail. And it's not Obama Obama Obama. We've been majorly F*$&#) far longer than he's been in office.

Well, I'm sure I'll get spammed and ranted at for this but I just felt it needed to be said finally. I return you now to your normal programming

Have a nice night....

[fordy]

Originally Posted by Bast

When I was discharged from the Army (honorably btw) I had a spinal injury. Now, you would think that having a spinal injury from my time in the Military, I would qualify for disability and care. This was not the case. "There is no record of the Training Accident you are referring to." That was my answer for years. So, what to do? Well, work of course. So I worked, but it's pretty hard getting a decent job. For some reason I would be told that I was "over qualified" for most jobs I applied for. (that burned my ass). But, I kept applying at the things I was trained for and even things I wasn't. I applied for every job that was available. Unemployment ran out of course, but I kept looking. Ended up on food stamps for awhile (yes, I was a lazy taker) But, I kept looking. I started taking jobs with Temp Services, but those are never steady. It began that I had to make choices between paying rent, or paying for heat which sucks when you have children.

The lowest point was when I applied for Housing. Here I was, an ex-soldier who had sacrificed my own spine for this great country, and I had to suffer through the looks that those who were more fortunate would give when I entered those offices. It was annoying. Being judged. Having that person across the desk think that they had you figured out already. Being stereotyped because of Color, Sex, assumptions.

This person had no idea that I would take jobs that no one with a spinal injury should ever take. That I would get home from work in so much pain that all I could do was lay in the middle of the floor and cry for an hour. That my children had to cook meals because I had to rest for the next day of abusing my body. But that's what you do when you have a family and can't find a job even when you are 'overqualified"

Finally got to the point that one day I'm cooking and my legs went dead up under me. That's a pretty scary feeling. To be standing one moment and flat on the floor with no feeling in your legs the next. So, of course, I wasn't going to work the next day and of course I get fired. Army is still saying that my medical records are lost and it's been a few years.

So now what? I still have a family to support right? So, I bite the bullet, get back on my feet and learn to drive an 18wheeler. Worse job for someone with a spinal injury but what can you do right? I'm not going back to that office to apply for welfare. Even though it would have meant that I would get medical care. No way, not with the way they look at you and think they know your whole story. Anyway, I get my CDL, but there's one obstacle. DOT Physical. The free clinic doc isn't going to sign off on it. He says that there's no way he would because I will paralyze myself in a couple of weeks and it would be his license. Fine, so I spend money I don't have to go to a doc that doesn't know my issues and git r dun.

I proudly can declare that I made a liar out of the clinic doc. I made it 16 years. 16 years of driving while in pain 24 hours a day 7 days a week. 16 years of pain that would get so bad that at times I would consider suicide to escape it. 16 years but I saw my children make it through school and have families of their own. 16 years of hell, just so that I wouldn't be judged by some jackass behind a desk, or at the counter at the grocery store who thought they knew everything about me.

September 17 2007 was the last day I drove a truck. I was in a grocery store looking over some canned vegetables and lost feeling to my legs, then pain so bad that I was still screaming 30 minutes later when they got me to the ER. This time however, it didn't stop. I wasn't up a few days later like I was in the past. Nope, this was it. I was in a wheelchair. Joy. Now what? No job, job skills from the past were out of date and I'm a black female. Hmm.

Well. I stayed with a couple of my kids for awhile, but I didn't want to be a burden to them. Heard about a kickass DAV rep in Seattle so that's where I needed to be. Lived in Seattle for a year but, rents are so high that you can't really afford anything inside the city without that help from subsidized housing, and the list to get into subsidized housing was 2 years long. So, it was a shelter for me. Let me tell you. Being homeless, on the streets, in a wheelchair, in a strange city is not fun. But, you do what you have to do when you have no other options right?

That DAV rep in Seattle was the miracle worker that everyone in Texas claimed she was though. She went page by page through my admin jacket until she found a reference to a delay in my deployment to Korea due to a spinal injury. Hallelujah!
But, just finding it isn't enough, now she had to file. That took 8 more months of living on the streets, surviving on food stamps, spending time in the day shelter when it rained or snowed. Getting kicked out of the library when trying to get warm. Being followed around in the store just in case I was a thief. Yea, had to deal with a lot of that, but it was worth it when the VA said that I was 100% disabled. Bittersweet really. Few weeks later my medical records mysteriously reappeared and I got to speak to a neurosurgeon. Too late though, too late. If I had gotten help for my injury maybe 10 years earlier they could do something about the god-awful constant pain. But now, too late. Yea, you might point out that I was working and should have gotten insurance to deal with it. But, there was that little problem about a Pre-existing condition, and then any insurance that would cover me being so expensive that I would have to choose between bills and care. Bills and my children came first every time. So, here I was, permanent nerve damage. Eh, they can repair the spine, but the nerves were a done deal.

I get by alright now. The VA has me on morphine 3 times a day, there are pills that help with the constant nerve pain, I even got a cool electric wheelchair. Sometimes though, I get a little ------. I paid for Blue Cross Blue Shield for 16 years and this could have been avoided, but they wouldn't dare actually let the insurance I paid for pay for something I needed. Now, the VA gives me all the care that I need. I do wonder however. How many other people out there are going through what I've gone through.

Now, there are lazy people out there that need to get a job, just like there are lazy people everywhere. But, who are any of us to THINK we know that every person out there that has to take advantage of a social program, or food stamps, or even welfare has no right to that help?

The problem I am having with what I am hearing however is this. I worked, I had insurance, and it was all for nothing. I served in order to protect this country from enemies foreign and domestic, and I have watched as this country was torn apart by greed and ignorance and rhetoric. I'm not saying that the people here are ignorant. No, but so many are being kept in ignorance.

Who is our enemy. Really?

Is it the welfare moms who pulls in 500 a month in food and rental assistance? Or is it the Businesses who have our government representatives bought and paid for. Pay a pittance in taxes, send jobs overseas, hide profits in offshore accounts , own the news stations, and then have the audacity to claim that the unemployed are only unemployed because they are lazy. Yes, some are lazy, but then again, we've been in a recession since . How do you get a job when it's been sent overseas hmm? Right to Work laws were really just a "right to be fired for any reason at all" law. Unions used to be able to protect the working man, but those have been wiped out more and more by 'bought and paid for" officials. But when did they stop being the problem, and the "other' become the problem?

Anyone 'other" is who is taking everything from you. Other religion, other color, other philosophy, other sexuality. Other , Other, Other... instead of the one that actually has the power and is using it to screw every single one of us over without benefit of lube or even a kiss on the cheek.

The hate here is actually painful to read. While we hate everyone around us who is different, we are doing exactly what we are expected to do. Be distracted by who the real problem is, and who is really bending you over that rail. And it's not Obama Obama Obama. We've been majorly F*$&#) far longer than he's been in office.

Well, I'm sure I'll get spammed and ranted at for this but I just felt it needed to be said finally. I return you now to your normal programming

Have a nice night....

..............My question is this.......Why were your problems not diagnosed by the physician who gave you your mustering out physical from the service ? Additionally , if the problems weren't diagnosed by the doc why didn't you immediately campout on the door of the VA until they were forced to admit you to the system . Maybe I've missed something but persistence is the key to receiving recognition and service from the VA .
...............There is NO hate involved in my post , just amazement that the Feds allow healthy people to be warehoused in HiRise buildings for years , rent free , and never forced to find a job ! Those living on uncle sams welfare rolls who are truly disabled are an entirely different subset from the healthy group . Can you just imagine IF there was a group in the Army who decided they wouldn't fight , and all they did was lay around the barracks doing absolutely nothing until their term of service was UP , and then discharged !
................This country was built and defended by people who worked at their jobs , be it civilian or military ...........they provided for their families by working , and they sacrificed their lives , most at a very young age to prevent the Hitlers and Tojo's of the world from destroying our free nation .
................There is fast approaching a time in this country where the politicans are going to make some very hard decisions about applying the brakes to our deficit spending and everyone is going to be forced to participate and give UP a portion of the money they receive from Uncle Sam . And , those able bodied folks sitting on their backsides are going to be cut off from their do nothing lifestyle and forced to go to work . I can't wait . , fordy

[bowdonkey]

Section 8 housing is good money for the politically connected. My nephew works for a company that just finished up two 14 story and one 25 story? High rise complexes for low income residents. Private individuals took public funds to remodel their high rises for low income individuals. No doubt much of the rent will come from public coffers also. This is your money going to private individuals for private gain. About the only good I can say for it, is at least the money was spent in MN.

[Bast]

Originally Posted by fordy

..............My question is this.......Why were your problems not diagnosed by the physician who gave you your mustering out physical from the service ? Additionally , if the problems weren't diagnosed by the doc why didn't you immediately campout on the door of the VA until they were forced to admit you to the system . Maybe I've missed something but persistence is the key to receiving recognition and service from the VA .
...............There is NO hate involved in my post , just amazement that the Feds allow healthy people to be warehoused in HiRise buildings for years , rent free , and never forced to find a job ! Those living on uncle sams welfare rolls who are truly disabled are an entirely different subset from the healthy group . Can you just imagine IF there was a group in the Army who decided they wouldn't fight , and all they did was lay around the barracks doing absolutely nothing until their term of service was UP , and then discharged !
................This country was built and defended by people who worked at their jobs , be it civilian or military ...........they provided for their families by working , and they sacrificed their lives , most at a very young age to prevent the Hitlers and Tojo's of the world from destroying our free nation .
................There is fast approaching a time in this country where the politicans are going to make some very hard decisions about applying the brakes to our deficit spending and everyone is going to be forced to participate and give UP a portion of the money they receive from Uncle Sam . And , those able bodied folks sitting on their backsides are going to be cut off from their do nothing lifestyle and forced to go to work . I can't wait . , fordy

I was mustered, it was all in my medical records, and all military medical records were mysteriously "mis-filed" for 20 years. Yes, this happens and I danced every dance and filed every request imaginable to no avail. "There is no record of the training accident to which you are referring" That's what I got. I couldn't Force them to produce my records, that's not how it works. You ask, and if they don't produce, you are screwed. Hindsight being 20/20, I should have made copies of all of my records, but who thinks they're going to be lost right?

Now, I've had an apartment in one of those so-called "rent free" apartments that everyone is talking about and they aren't rent free. As a matter of fact, I had to move my own mother to one of the elderly Hi-Rises 2 years ago and even though she's a senior it's not rent free. They are just below market price. Everyone that lives in Subsidized Housing pays 33% of their income, without exception. I don't know where the idea comes from that the housing is free. It is in no way free. 33%, that's what I paid when I used it. That's what my mother paid when she used it. That's what HUD demands , along with birth certificates, Social Security cards, Shot Records and School records for every member of the family who will be staying in the apartment. On top of that, you must provide either check stubs from your job or a letter from your employer on letterhead. You also have to sign paperwork acknowledging that if there is ever any drug activity, police activity or a certain number of serious complaints by neighbors, you will be banned from any and all Subsidized Housing programs in your city for up to 10 years. This includes illegal activity by a guest.

33% is far from free. But, while we are still blaming the state of this country on the poor. Why are we still giving Big Business and Banking a pass after railroading the economy into the state it is today?

And wait, didn't Afghanistan and Iraq cost this country a few TRILLIAN dollars that could have been better put towards the deficit in this country. Hell, it just might have contributed to the deficit that's looming over our heads today. Call me crazy, but when you go into a war without budgeting for it, wage a war on a credit card, the balance has to be paid eventually and that bill has been due 6 years now. TRILLIANS, and Al Queda is still all over the Middle East and Europe. TRILLIANS and we never found any WMD's in Iraq. TRILLIANS and no one even missed the few hundred thousand that was shipped from the U.S to Iraq only to disappear. TRILLIANS, and no one is marching in the street demanding answers for the lies and soldiers sacrificed on a lie.

TRILLIANS that could have been far better spent right on our own soil.

Where's the indignation?

[joebill]

Bast, I wouldn't dream of questioning your right to be bitter over the way you have been treated, and I do thank you for your service, for what it's worth (nothing, I imagine, since it really doesn't help anything), but look around you.

While you are quite deserving of the social programs and should have been taken care of by the VA instead of having to use them, I truly doubt that you believe that all who are on them really need to be.

Cheating is a human weakness that invades every social strata, race, income level, political ideology and group.

"revenge cheating" is a concept that tempts every person who ever had reason to think he got less than he deserved at any time, which includes all of us.

I'm sure that it is as obvious to you as it is anyone else that we cannot go on like this, because we are spending borrowed and printed money, and moving towards the point where our money will be worthless.

As an honorable woman and an "interested party" of the first order, what is your solution? It deserves and needs to be heard....... Bear in miind, it needs to work........again....thank you, and on behalf of America, i apologise....Joe

[fordy]

Originally Posted by joebill

Bast, I wouldn't dream of questioning your right to be bitter over the way you have been treated, and I do thank you for your service, for what it's worth (nothing, I imagine, since it really doesn't help anything), but look around you.

While you are quite deserving of the social programs and should have been taken care of by the VA instead of having to use them, I truly doubt that you believe that all who are on them really need to be.

Cheating is a human weakness that invades every social strata, race, income level, political ideology and group.

"revenge cheating" is a concept that tempts every person who ever had reason to think he got less than he deserved at any time, which includes all of us.

I'm sure that it is as obvious to you as it is anyone else that we cannot go on like this, because we are spending borrowed and printed money, and moving towards the point where our money will be worthless.

As an honorable woman and an "interested party" of the first order, what is your solution? It deserves and needs to be heard....... Bear in miind, it needs to work........again....thank you, and on behalf of America, i apologise....Joe

................No one , least of all me is blaming the 'Poor' for the demise of the entire monetary deficit ! I , also , have spoken out about the total waste and futility of Both Islamic wars since their inception , on THIS site . I just don't think the Feds should be in the business of thinking it needs to supply housing for everyone who , doesn't earn a certain level of income !
................ .Rather than the Feds continuing to build more Hi Rise welfare condos , I'd like to see the funds utilized and invested in a program like Habitat For Humanity , where the homeowner has to invest a certain number of hours in the building of their home . This way they have Skin in the game and have some concept of the value of living in their "Own' home ! , fordy
............I'm sorry JB , my reply was focused on Bast , not you ! , fordy

[Bast]

Originally Posted by joebill

Bast, I wouldn't dream of questioning your right to be bitter over the way you have been treated, and I do thank you for your service, for what it's worth (nothing, I imagine, since it really doesn't help anything), but look around you.

While you are quite deserving of the social programs and should have been taken care of by the VA instead of having to use them, I truly doubt that you believe that all who are on them really need to be.

Cheating is a human weakness that invades every social strata, race, income level, political ideology and group.

"revenge cheating" is a concept that tempts every person who ever had reason to think he got less than he deserved at any time, which includes all of us.

I'm sure that it is as obvious to you as it is anyone else that we cannot go on like this, because we are spending borrowed and printed money, and moving towards the point where our money will be worthless.

As an honorable woman and an "interested party" of the first order, what is your solution? It deserves and needs to be heard....... Bear in miind, it needs to work........again....thank you, and on behalf of America, i apologise....Joe

I understand that people cheat. All we have to do is look at our government. BOTH sides, to see evidence of that.

We have big business interests being catered to and raping this country of jobs and shipping them overseas and leaving trash jobs in their stead. Look around. How many manufacturing jobs have been sent to 3rd world countries in the last 30 years? What do we actually MAKE here anymore? Not much. We import a whole hell of a lot of crap from China though, and who manufactures things here?
Remember the big push to "Buy American" yea, that didn't work too well.
It would be nice if every American had an office job with high figure income, but that's just not realistic. It would be nice if every American made a living wage, but "Right to Work' and Union Busting put an end to that.

Waitresses and Food Workers make about 2.30 an hour. That's IT, and in some places that is all the work that is available unless you can get a job at Walmart. How many of you have tried to live on minimum wage in the city lately?

There are 12.4 million people unemployed, or under-employed in the United States right at this moment. If you are not one of them, count yourself lucky, but there but for the grace of God goes you or someone in your family.

Everyone is so freaking frackin worried about people on welfare and it makes me sick. The REAL problem is that there are NO decent jobs! Gah, how hard is that to understand. I support my daughter. She's a single mother. She's a single mother because her husband came back from Iraq with a serious case of PTSD and she was advised to leave the house with her children for her own safety or they would take the children. Hmm, now what should she do? Well, get a job of course. So, I sat and watched her apply for jobs. 10-20 a day , everything under the sun, she even applied for housekeeping jobs. Did you know that housekeeping jobs in Jacksonville pay you 3.00 a room and no... you don't get to do 10+ rooms a day. It was depressing just watching her freak out and try to find a job. She managed to find a part time job, but she couldn't get daycare. Hmm, how to work without daycare when you have 3 kids right? You darn sure can't afford to pay for it. 44.00 a day per child. Hah, it's your whole paycheck at the end of the week and that doesn't include gas (3.50 a gal) to get to daycare and to work every day, kids clothes (since they grow like weeds) snacks and at least one outing a month.

My daughter gets food stamps (gasp!) And she finished college, and she works a part time job. I pay some of her bills and help buy food at the end of the month. She doesn't buy junk, she bakes, and buys bargains and such from costco or sam's club and still the little she gets does NOT stretch enough to last.

Now, you ask me what I think needs to be done?

Close the loophole that allows Corporations to bleed jobs that would employ American's oversees and still allow them to get Tax credits here in the US. Get big business out of our government because our Congress is living in laa-laa land.

Jobs! That's what we need, and once we have jobs that actually pay enough for a family to live on, we would see a decrease in people on welfare. Welfare rolls went off the charts right as our economy took a nosedive. The news would have you believe that the Welfare Queen is living in a mansion and driving a rolls royce. If you believe that, I have some really nice lake front property to sell you in the Mojave too.

The Welfare King and Queen are CEOs and Bankers and they have bought the news stations and feeding every one of us BS to keep us from going after the real problem. Watching people rant and rave about crap that doesn't matter right now is nauseating. It's like watching rabid cats chase after a shiny ball. C'mon, is Gay Marriage really more important than Jobs? Is Prayer in School really more important than jobs? Is Abortion really more important than Jobs? Frankly, I would never get an abortion, but it's ---- sure NOT my business if my next door neighbor gets one, unless I'm going to support the bastard for the next 18 years, and I don't think it's anyone else's business either. So, is it really more important than jobs?

Yea yea yea.... we have lazy people on food stamps and gaming the system in this country. BUT, we have far more people that are struggling and scraping to get by in this country who have no choice but to get food stamps. I saw someone say that our military gets paid enough now not to need food stamps. Hmm, not true at all. I know plenty of active duty personnel who still need the help, sad as it is.

I know a guy in Chicago who has 3 degrees. 3, and not funky stupid degrees either. Business, Science of something to do with Robotics, and this guy has been out of work for 3 years. All he talks about is the next job interview, the last application put in. 3 years, no work and he finally break down and takes a job as a salesman in a clothes store. Problem is, school debt. So, he moves home with the parents, pays on student loans, works a crappy job and... yep... you guessed it. Gets food stamps. Why? Because after rent, student loans, gas, and other bills, he would have to eat and his parents are on a pension.

Lazy taker? unworthy of the help?

Yes, there are lots of people you can point at who are cheating the system, but for every ONE you point out, I'm sure there are 100+ who aren't. So, do you rip the rug out from everyone's feet just to get to the few who are gaming the system, or do you demand more accountability? AFTER JOBS!

Oh, and btw. No Family can draw welfare for more than 5 years. Period. Single mothers who have kids have 5 years total to draw welfare and then they are kicked off, and during the time that they are on welfare they are mandated to either go into job training, or go to college. It's not an option, it's the only way they are getting welfare and this is every state now, and the ones that do not comply are cut off. NOW, the mothers are cut off but the children still are allowed to have food stamps and medicaid. NOTHING for the mother however. That's been one of the major changes in welfare law for at least 15 years now. I'm surprised that no one here is aware of it yet.

Jobs, Jobs, Jobs, Jobs! That's what is needed and everyone should be ranting at their congressmen. Republican and Democrat, marching on the Senate and the House with pitchforks and torches. Stop being distracted by the crap that doesn't matter right now and stop being suckers. Because anyone that's being distracted by religion and rhetoric, is just that.... a sucker.

Before you start going on about Obama Obama Obama, remember that he can't do much of anything that the House and Senate don't exactly let him do. No Jobs in your City or State, look at your Senators and Congressman. Look at the ones that are too busy whining about religion and other non-important BS and start demanding Loopholes be closed and Jobs be brought back to this Country where they belong. I for one am tired of paying my taxes so that somebody in China or India can live large.
And... I'm really sick of calling customer service and getting somebody named Raja in India! As if an American in Kansas City couldn't do the same job right?

[JillyG]

Fordy do you have a solution?

[SJSFarm]

I'll prepare for the explosions! The first argument I had with my new husband was over welfare. He said the women needed to be kicked off and her kids taken away! Ultimately, he was right.
Gingrich proposed it in 1994.

This is a solution ;
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Newt..._+_Poverty.htm

This next statement is not for everyone on welfare, but is the "lowlight" of the welfare system. And the reason time limitations are needed.
It is a scary thought, but women really do have kids to get more welfare. They really do chose not to marry to get welfare. The kids grow up to be on welfare.

In the other post, I commented about my friend going on wic. She was on it for about 1 1/2 years. That was it. My dad used welfare when I was a kid- for 6 months. This is what it's for - temporary only.

[Bast]

Originally Posted by SJSFarm

I'll prepare for the explosions! The first argument I had with my new husband was over welfare. He said the women needed to be kicked off and her kids taken away! Ultimately, he was right.
Gingrich proposed it in 1994.

This is a solution ;
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Newt..._+_Poverty.htm

This next statement is not for everyone on welfare, but is the "lowlight" of the welfare system. And the reason time limitations are needed.
It is a scary thought, but women really do have kids to get more welfare. They really do chose not to marry to get welfare. The kids grow up to be on welfare.

In the other post, I commented about my friend going on wic. She was on it for about 1 1/2 years. That was it. My dad used welfare when I was a kid- for 6 months. This is what it's for - temporary only.

No Family can draw welfare for more than 5 years. Period. Single mothers who have kids have 5 years total to draw welfare and then they are kicked off, and during the time that they are on welfare they are mandated to either go into job training, or go to college. It's not an option, it's the only way they are getting welfare and this is every state now, and the ones that do not comply are cut off. NOW, the mothers are cut off but the children still are allowed to have food stamps and medicaid. NOTHING for the mother however. That's been one of the major changes in welfare law for at least 15 years now. I'm surprised that no one here is aware of it yet.

[joebill]

Bast, you laid out a lot of problems there, and there is no sigle solution, as I'm sure you know. Labor is a glut on the market, these days......I'm talking about unskilled labor or labor skilled in things that are not in demand. Often, companies that used to manufacture srtuff in this country no longer manufacture anything anywhere, but buy stuff from China and sell it here under their own brand. That is not a simple thing to outlaw, and if you could do it, your neighbors would hate you for raising the price of shoes, clothing, housewares, all the things we no longer make here.

Like it or not, there are an awful lot of blue collar good paying jobsw that no longer exist in this country because of government controls. Obama came into office promising to bankrupt pretty much anything to do with coal, and he wasn't lying. Coal mining was good money and coal fired plants provided good jobs that everyone had good reason to believe were stable. A coal fired smelter down the road from me closed because of environmentalists, wiping out an entire town and lots of jobs in the surrounding countryside that supplied the town. Evergy leases on public lands are down 50% under Obama, and those were good paying jobs, too. He closed down drilling in the gulf and all THOSE rigs headed to other parts of the world. Too much expense in starting a venture here at the risk of getting shut down on one man's whim.

He was going to replace those jobs with "green energy jobs" and invested amazing amounts of your money in them, then watcdhed them go bankrupt one by one after contributing your money to him for his campaign fund.

NOW, the usual round of start-up companies, many of which usually provide entry-level jobs, are not starting up any more, for obvious reasons;

1.They can make more money with their capital by investing in the stock market that is being arifically propped up by billions of printed dollars breing run through it every month. Easier and less risky than starting a company and hiring folks.

2. Until and unless Obamacare solidifies into some permanent law instead of changing every time Obama gets indigestion or becomes fearfull that it will cost his party an election, nobody can calculate labor costs for the future. Also, nobody cqan calculate ANY costs for the future, because regulations are coming from every direction at light speed, many never having even been read by congress, let alone aproved. The EPA AND Obama can now write law without any input from anyone, and they DO!

3. All the while taking their money, from the begininng, this administration has made it known by every word and deed that he believes manufacturing by traditional means is evil. The same applies to mining, which is a source of good paying jobs, and I'm sure we could rack up a list of dozens more occupations that are on his "hate list" without half trying. On a large scale, those jobs are dead and/or dying.

In one tiny corner of the country, This company had been trying to open a copper, gold, moly, silver mine for nearly a decade (yes, far longer than Obama has been in office) and environmentalists have been fighting every step of the way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemont_Copper

I point this instance out because I have worked over every inch of that terrain, and can tell you that historically, the area was one solid mine, with it's own smelter, then was a wood-cutting area for the entire country, then was opened to ATV use for many years, so virgin timber it ain't, but the environmental crowd, backed by the federal government thinks leaving it alone is more important than a LOT of GOOD PAYING JOBS!

In terms of employer motivations, I'll end this part of the post by reminding you that US corporations bear the highest corporate tax rate in the world already, and taxing them more is not likely to make them look more kindly upon American labor, but might make it more likely that they simply pull out altogether and become foriegn corporations.

In terms of remidies, I agree with you that it is pure crap that Americans seeking customer service have to call India, and that businesses never seem to draw a line in the sand when they start outsourcing labor. None of us can change that, though, so we have to work with what we can change. One of the things we cqan change is this administration's rabid desire to IMPORT foriegn labor from Mexico, and we can do it by letting them (him) know in no uncertain terms that we have plenty of folks right here seeking jobs and opening the border to millions more of them will not help our own people. This seems to be a problem with republican and democrat administrations alike, but the republican administrations are vulnerable to congressional roadblocks to open borders, and Obama is in the process of proving he is not.

Ultimately, to make a long story short, we have to make our own jobs. The guy who will hire your daughter to work for $8 per hour will be charging $25 or so per hour for her labor, and in a lot of fields she has no need whatsoever for that middleman-boss. She can work directly for the customer and get paid what her boss would have gotten paid.

I am only a fair-to-middling machinist and wood worker, but years ago I worked up a few products that reflected my particular skills very well, and that I could make on very simple and inexpensive machines, and started making those things and selling them, then adding products, machinery, more products, more machinery, all the while raising a family of five daughters. My family outstripped my ability to earn a living with a job early on when the copper mine went on strike, so i took my vacation check I got when I quit the job and started in business. We have seen hard times, made some mistakes along the way, still have to kick in some help to one of our daughters who MARRIED a mistake, but I have always been able to find work much easier than I could have found a job paying the same or less.

I agree with you 100% that trying to be employed is an uphill battle for most folks, and if I had to find a job today, I'd be lost. I can net more dollars in a five hour workday running a 50 year old band saw OR a 40 year old milling machine than I could make locally in a 40 hour work week hereabouts. Crap, 30 years ago, I was making more money per hour blowing off parking lots with a leaf blower after midnight than I was making during the day as a heavy equipment mechanic at a union copper mine job.

OK, that's all I got. Jobs suck. tell your daughter to find work, instead, and God bless her for looking. I'm gong out to bask in the sunshine.....Joe

[plowjockey]

Originally Posted by bowdonkey

Section 8 housing is good money for the politically connected. My nephew works for a company that just finished up two 14 story and one 25 story? High rise complexes for low income residents. Private individuals took public funds to remodel their high rises for low income individuals. No doubt much of the rent will come from public coffers also. This is your money going to private individuals for private gain. About the only good I can say for it, is at least the money was spent in MN.

People seem to forget, that all of the money wasted to help the poor, does not all go, to the poor.

Poverty is big business and just not for Liberal businessmen, either.

[where I want to]

An adult with a dependent child may become ineligible but the child does not. And the TANF elibility goes with the child if custody changes. A person can still receive food stamps, housing and utility assistance, medial coverage, etc. All that is terminated is the parent's share of cash after 5 years. And that does not include tax credits.
Welfare is technically defined by the government as cash payments- it does not include the rest of subsidies which vary a lot from state to state.

[where I want to]

Originally Posted by plowjockey

People seem to forget, that all of the money wasted to help the poor, does not all go, to the poor.

Poverty is big business and just not for Liberal businessmen, either.

There was an article I read recently about the cost savings to builders when the normal building fees, taxes and restrictions are relaxed to encourage low cost housing development.
The savings to the builder are supposed to to maintaining the housing for the good of the occupants under these provisions but seems they have directed back to the State instead under some obscure rule.
At first I was wondering why this would even happen but it is probably a way of getting money up front for the government while the maintenance is in the future and with more funding or simply paid by the renters as increased rent.
Anyway it did show there is a lot more going on under the surface than providing low cost housing. It doesn't get done without the builder getting his profit and other tax payers picking up the tab.

[joebill]

The poor used to build their own houses, and do a quite competent job of it, too. I have built two of them and added on rooms to my parent's place when I was still in high school during the summers, with direction from my Dad, every day before he left for work.

All the high-flung rules and regs serve to further supress those who are trying to get ahead by denying them a chance to do the same. Libs like to talk about the "basic human right" of having a home, then clamor for more and more rules to insure that people can't build their own without smooching so many government butts that it becomes nearly impossible.

At lease there are still places where you can do it without interferance, but they are few and far between.....joe