The People+Snowden vs. The Intelligence Community ?

[fordy]

..................We have a classic battle shaping UP between what 'THE PEOPLE' feel about Mr. Snowden's revelations , i.e. Whistleblower,Patriot vs Opinions of the Intelligence Community as a Traitor for revealing their UNconstitutional collection and retention of all kinds of personal data including most phone calls here in the US as well as Overseas calls as well . Two federal judges have ruled their activities are UNconstitutional and both are being appealed ASAP ! Had Mr. Snowden kept his mouth shut the world would still be totally IGnorant as to the activities of the NSA . Mr. Obama would have seen to that .
....................The attitude of the NSA as well as Mr. Obama , etal. is or seems to be , If spying on all American citizens and friendly foreign powers is necessary then don't worry about the abridgement of the Rights to limit and control the powers of the federal government . Anything goes , so we'll just get the secret FISA court to sign off on our activities and worry about the details later . The average American citizen never had a snowball's chance in Hades of being able to view and discuss the activities of the NSA .
.....................The NYTimes and one other large daily paper have called for Mr. Snowden to be treated as a Whistleblower and allowed to return home . The criminals in the NSA want him tried and thrown in Prision for a very long time ! WHO will win this Contest of Wills.............The People who through the ballot box are supposed to control the Feds via their elected Rep's , OR the career NSA bureaucrats who answer to NO ONE essentially ?
......................IF , there was EVER a moment in history that Demands that the People ACT and take BACK the Power they are Assigned in the Constitution , it is NOW ! IF , 'We The People' DO NOT act in our own Self Interest , we may never get another chance to.............Peacefully.........REassert our Dominance over the FEDs . IF we just kickback and let the Status Quo prevail , we will loose the Momentum of The MOMent . , fordy

[RichInPA]

It's no longer a government of the people, for the people; but of the corporations and entitled, for the corporations and entitled.

[popscott]

I'm not a Snowden fan or a government fan, but.....

Is it not a citizen responsibility to report a crime? I do not believe our government is above the law. It's pretty bad when a criminal starts pointing their finger at another criminal.

United States federal law......if you are charged with an espionage violation you are not permitted go into court and argue your case. There would be no fair trial.... Glenn Greenwald
Snowden’s case.......James Clapper was lying and misleading his fellow citizens

"Misprision of felony" is still an offense under United States federal law after being codified in 1909 under 18 U.S.C. § 4:

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This offense, however, requires active concealment of a known felony rather than merely failing to report it.

MISPRISION

In its larger sense, this word is used to signify every considerable misdemeanor, which has not a certain name given to it in the law; and it is said that a misprision is contained in every treason or felony whatever. In its narrower sense it is the concealment of a crime. Misprision of treason, is the concealment of treason, by being merely passive for if any assistance be given, to the traitor, it makes the party a principal, as there is no accessories in treason. It is the duty of every good citizen, knowing of a treason or felony having been committed; to inform a magistrate. Silently to observe the commission of a felony, without using any endeavors to apprehend the offender, is a misprision. Misprisions which are merely positive, are denominated contempts or high misdemeanors; as, for example, dissuading a witness from giving evidence.

MISPRISION OF FELONY

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the U.S., conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the U.S. 18 USC Misprision of felony, is the like concealment of felony, without giving any degree of maintenance to the felon for if any aid be given him, the party becomes an accessory after the fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misprision_of_felony

[farmrbrown]

I think we should do a prisoner swap with Russia.
Snowden for Obama.

[JJ Grandits]

In my Eyes Snowden is a patriot and a hero. the only real terrorist and traitor is Obama.

[7thswan]

Originally Posted by farmrbrown

I think we should do a prisoner swap with Russia.
Snowden for Obama.

Heck, even Putin would be better than O.

[Wanda]

Originally Posted by 7thswan

Heck, even Putin would be better than O.

I hope that is made very tongue in cheek. I am sure that a very large part of there population would be very willing to trade places.

[chickenista]

Originally Posted by RichInPA

It's no longer a government of the people, for the people; but of the corporations and entitled, for the corporations and entitled.

I wish there was a way to hit the 'like' button 50 times.

[chickenista]

Originally Posted by 7thswan

Heck, even Putin would be better than O.

You must not know a lot about Putin.

Like... he is the 2nd richest person in the world.
Odd for being a public servant his entire life making a meager public servant salary.

He is a very, very, very scary dude in so many ways.
But impressive..kinda.
What he has been able to do to/for the Russian military is amazing.
The technology etc.. totally outclassing us! Wow.

Did I mention how terrifying he is?

[fordy]

Originally Posted by chickenista

You must not know a lot about Putin.

Like... he is the 2nd richest person in the world.
Odd for being a public servant his entire life making a meager public servant salary.

He is a very, very, very scary dude in so many ways.
But impressive..kinda.
What he has been able to do to/for the Russian military is amazing.
The technology etc.. totally outclassing us! Wow.

Did I mention how terrifying he is?

..............I think Putin would like to be a Jockey , IF , they'd let ride without his shirt ! , fordy

[Yldrosie]

Where did you get" second richest in the world"? I don't think so. Putin is for Russia and Russians. We should have a leader like that instead of the sham(e) we have now.

Originally Posted by Wanda

I hope that is made very tongue in cheek. I am sure that a very large part of there population would be very willing to trade places.

At least we'd have a man for president instead of a man boy .

[chickenista]

Putin 'lists' his income and his wife's income as fairly low.
However.. that is not the case.
His estimated worth is at LEAST $70 billion.
He owns shares, large shares, in oil trading companies, gas companies and Gazprom.
Now.. Gazprom is interesting. It is Russia's biggest business.
It is now 'state controlled'. Man.. does it have some shady dealings.
And they deal heavily with international gas concerns. Big movers and shakers.
If they want what you have, they just cut off your ability to ship, import, export etc.. until you give your business over.

Also.. Putin took over control of ALL Russian media recently.
He locked the doors on the news agencies and all the news comes from the State once again.
Also.. Gazprom (and Putin) took control of the film making, the television, the print media.. it is ALL run by Gazprom and the State and Putin has a dog in the hunt as well.

Oh.. and for those that said he would be a great leader...
Did you know that 146% of Russia's population voted in the last election?

[greg273]

I have to wonder how many of you would have called him a 'patriot' if he had spilled all this in 2002... ya know, when our government really got going on this stuff....to wild rightwing applause.

[Ozarks Tom]

Originally Posted by chickenista

Putin 'lists' his income and his wife's income as fairly low.
However.. that is not the case.
His estimated worth is at LEAST $70 billion.
He owns shares, large shares, in oil trading companies, gas companies and Gazprom.
Now.. Gazprom is interesting. It is Russia's biggest business.
It is now 'state controlled'. Man.. does it have some shady dealings.
And they deal heavily with international gas concerns. Big movers and shakers.
If they want what you have, they just cut off your ability to ship, import, export etc.. until you give your business over.

Also.. Putin took over control of ALL Russian media recently.
He locked the doors on the news agencies and all the news comes from the State once again.
Also.. Gazprom (and Putin) took control of the film making, the television, the print media.. it is ALL run by Gazprom and the State and Putin has a dog in the hunt as well.

Oh.. and for those that said he would be a great leader...
Did you know that 146% of Russia's population voted in the last election?

I'm definitely not a Putin fan, but could you give us a link or two supporting some of your facts? I'd think we'd have heard some of this elsewhere by now if it's such common knowledge.

[chickenista]

This is interesting too..http://en.ria.ru/business/20131211/1...tan-for-1.html

http://politicalstreet.com/russian-p...e-news-agency/
This lists the slow take over of all media since earlier in the 2000's.
as does this..http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ian-media.html

I am trying to get the ones with the most stuff in one spot instead of a link to individual stories about Profmedia etc..

On wealth...http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-on-earth.html
http://www.celebritynetworth.com/art...sonal-fortune/ I LOVE the picture of him with Reagan!


And the military stuff is cool.. terrifying, but cool...
http://rt.com/news/pak-fa-unlimited-oxygen-supply-198/

[davel745]

Originally Posted by chickenista

Putin 'lists' his income and his wife's income as fairly low.
However.. that is not the case.
His estimated worth is at LEAST $70 billion.
He owns shares, large shares, in oil trading companies, gas companies and Gazprom.
Now.. Gazprom is interesting. It is Russia's biggest business.
It is now 'state controlled'. Man.. does it have some shady dealings.
And they deal heavily with international gas concerns. Big movers and shakers.
If they want what you have, they just cut off your ability to ship, import, export etc.. until you give your business over.

Also.. Putin took over control of ALL Russian media recently.
He locked the doors on the news agencies and all the news comes from the State once again.
Also.. Gazprom (and Putin) took control of the film making, the television, the print media.. it is ALL run by Gazprom and the State and Putin has a dog in the hunt as well.

Oh.. and for those that said he would be a great leader...
Did you know that 146% of Russia's population voted in the last election?

so what. we had 150% of our population vote 6 times.

[chickenista]

Originally Posted by davel745

so what. we had 150% of our population vote 6 times.

News to me.
The highest voter turnout in US history was 81.8% way on back in 1876.

[poppy]

Originally Posted by greg273

I have to wonder how many of you would have called him a 'patriot' if he had spilled all this in 2002... ya know, when our government really got going on this stuff....to wild rightwing applause.

Much of the right wing was opposed to this stuff from the start because most of them also have Libertarian leanings. Like Obamacare, it was sold to the people as a good thing but turned into something else. No one objects to monitoring terrorists and their activities. That would be stupid. The problems arose when it was learned how massively and pervasively they were gathering intel on everyone and not just terrorists. I applaud Snowden and I do not side with traitors. For those who say Snowden should have protested by other means, what would those means be? You can't file suit because the courts will not grant you standing. Your Congressmen can't help you because the intel people lie to them too. Even Senator Rand Paul is trying to file a class action suit and I doubt if it makes it to court. Without Snowden we never would have known how massive the spying was and we probably still don't know all of it. I'll wager nothing Snowden revealed has lead to one case of preventing a terror attack.

[plowjockey]

Originally Posted by 7thswan

Heck, even Putin would be better than O.

Why is that?

Hopefully not how well, he runs the Russian economy.

Putin admits Russia's economic woes home-grown

During Putin's first two terms as president, the economy clocked up annual growth rates of about 7 percent thanks to a boom in oil prices, while easy monetary conditions flooded emerging markets with cheap investment dollars.


That ended abruptly with the global financial crash of 2008 and, with the government now relying on oil prices of over $100 per barrel to balance its books, consumer spending is all that is keeping the economy ticking over.


The downturn, along with vast illegal outflows of cash estimated by a former central bank chief at $50 billion a year, has caused the fragile recovery to stall. The government now expects the economy to grow by just 1.4 percent this year.


Long-term growth is likely to average 2.5 percent, lagging the world economy and other e0merging markets. The government meanwhile risks exhausting its rainy-day savings in three years, officials warn.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...9BB08F20131212