Thought experiment

[mmoetc]

While driving half away across the state at 4am for a gig I heard the first reports that the fertilizer plant explosion in Texas may have been related to none reporting of the quantity of potential hazardous materials. It got me to thinking about what differences there might be in the prosecution of this criminal act(and this is purely speculation on my part at this time) and the marathon bombings. Both killed people, the Texas incident more. Both disrupted lives. One the act of misplaced religous zeal, the other an act of avarice. Which is worse- killing people because it is a part of your belief system or killing people to make more money? Or is there a difference? I'll leave it open for you all to debate for a while before I chime in with my thoughts.

[HDRider]

Your question is like asking which is worse cutting off my right arm or my left leg?

[haypoint]

Intent?

[mmoetc]

Originally Posted by haypoint

Intent?

That would be the basis of my question- which is worse. The intent to influence opinion or policy through an act of terror or the intent to make more money by not following regulations which could have averted a disaster?

[copperkid3]

Maybe the answer lies in how 'we' prosecute and punish the guilty parties?

On the one hand, I've heard many calling for death without even the formality

of a public trial. On the other hand, the best one can hope for, is a substantial fine.


And therein lies your answer.

[MichaelK!]

Originally Posted by mmoetc

That would be the basis of my question- which is worse. The intent to influence opinion or policy through an act of terror or the intent to make more money by not following regulations which could have averted a disaster?

Everyone to some extent doesn't follow the rules sometime. On your trip across the state at 4am, did you ever excede the legal speed limit? Suppose you nodded off, lost control of the car, and run over an early morning pedestrian? Would you differenciate your killing of a pedestrian with the purposeful killing of strangers?

The key to this is criminal intent. Perhaps the owners of the plant willfully disregarded safety regs because they cost money. They may have disregarded them because they felt they were under too much government control and they themselves knew what they were doing better than anyone else. There will have to be a carefull analysis of the chain of events that led up to the explosion to determine at what point negligence becomes criminal, or was it just an act of God that took lives.

This is why we have three degrees of murder. The Boston explosions were first degree murder because they intentially planned the killing of innocent people. The Texas explosion could be considered manslaughter if they willfully disregarded safety regulations. But, the owners did not intentionally disregard the regs because they wanted to kill people.

[Harry Chickpea]

You forgot to add "stupidity" to avarice and intent. Stupidity is a greater killer than both.

[nchobbyfarm]

Did I miss the cause of the Texas explosion? The last I heard they had not determined the cause. Why the anti capitalism slant to the question?

[fishhead]

Originally Posted by haypoint

Intent?

Or knowledge of the results of your actions.

[Paumon]

Originally Posted by mmoetc

One the act of misplaced religous zeal, the other an act of avarice. Which is worse- killing people because it is a part of your belief system or killing people to make more money?

Killing people because of your religion is always an unforgiveably bad thing, no matter whose religion it is.

As to whether or not Donald Adair, the owner of the fertilizer plant, is guilty of avarice (it's actually a fertilizer, feed, seed & tools store like a country co-op, it's not only a fertilizer storage and mixing plant) - the townspeople in West don't seem to think so. They love him and refer to him as a generous and thoughtful person. The idea of forgiving him is not even a question in their minds and the townspeople hold him in highest regard for the good he has done for their little town. Read the article and you decide if he's guilty of avarice.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...93M06E20130423

Texas town holds no grudge against exploded fertilizer plant owner


When Texas farmer Donald Adair bought the floundering West Fertilizer Co in 2004, his neighbors in the rolling countryside near West were grateful he had saved them from driving extra miles to Waco or Hillsboro to buy fertilizer, feed and tools.

After the plant exploded last week, flattening homes, damaging schools, killing 14 people and leaving some 200 others with injuries including burns, lacerations and broken bones, they still describe the 83-year-old owner as honest and good.....

[HDRider]

I wonder why they built houses and such so close to the plant.

[Yvonne's hubby]

Originally Posted by HDRider

I wonder why they built houses and such so close to the plant.

Probably because they figured it was safe, afterall it hadnt ever blown up before.

[HDRider]

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

Probably because they figured it was safe, afterall it hadnt ever blown up before.

Seems like a tough way to learn.

[Yvonne's hubby]

Originally Posted by HDRider

Seems like a tough way to learn.

Yup, but then nobody said people in general are overly smart. Just look at our coastlines, jammed with houses and business and its not like we havent seen hurricanes before! Or all the homes and businesses that are situated in flood planes.... like those rivers are going to behave from now on.
Fertilizer plant explosions are extremely rare, probably much moreso than grain elevator explosions, but people live out their lives at the base of grain elevators too.

[Ozarks Tom]

Well, let's see. On the one hand you have some guys bent on blowing up innocents. On the other hand you have a guy trying to keep a needed business alive for his community, and probably didn't see how the business could comply with all the invasive regulations involved in having a necessary component of that business on hand, and still be financially viable.

In years past I owned a wood flooring business just west of downtown Dallas. The EPA set up "sniffers" about 6 blocks away to try to catch us polluting the environment with wood dust. They ended up 1 block from the shop with 3 sniffers, and still couldn't find any. The cost of our dust collection system was nearly more than the business could stand, but the fines would have been worse. I could have avoided most of the cost by putting in a cheaper system, and keeping the big doors closed, letting my people sweat. Business decisions can rarely be attributed to "avarice", but what's best overall for everyone involved, believe it or not.

[plowjockey]

Originally Posted by HDRider

I wonder why they built houses and such so close to the plant.

Maybe for some reason, the land was attractively priced.

A large refinery near Chicago, has $500k homes and expensive condos, literally right next door.