Grass Fed Beef

[haypoint]

For many decades, grocery stores and butcher shops have been buying boxes of frozen Bull beef from New Zeeland and Australia. US beef trimming contains too much fat, so the boxed beef is added to trimmings to get the fat percentages down. McDonalds does this, too. So, they have to import pasture raised bull beef to reduce the fat found in US ground beef. They claim they can’t get enough lean beef in this country. But the truth is that they can buy old bulls in New Zeeland and Australia cheaper than what cull bulls sell for in this country.
Krogers marketed grass fed beef steaks for a while. It didn’t go over well and they stopped.
I see the interest in grass fed beef. People like the sound of it and it is claimed to be healthier. Pull the skin off your chicken, cut the fat off your pork chop and trim your steaks and they’ll be healthier. But a bit dryer, too.
Today, I shopped at an upscale grocery store. They had pasture raised New York strips. This is a marketing ploy. Most beef is pasture raised, but finished on grain. That makes them pasture raised. I also saw “Naturally Raised” I couldn’t find any USDA requirements on what makes it natural, but the butcher told me that these cattle are free of added hormones. The hormone added to beef cattle is generally an implant/tag that gives out a tiny bit of hormone over a few months as the cattle are on pasture. It doesn’t remain in their system. So, even cattle given hormone implant is free of added hormones at slaughter and the claim that they are free of added hormones is factual. Do buyers understand that?
But today, I saw “grass fed beef hamburger”. I’m not sure, but I think those cattle were strictly on pasture. But then I was thinking about all that boxed bull beef we import. Wouldn’t that be grass fed beef? So, in a well thought out plan to bring the customer what they want, they are able to grind up the cheap part of a Big Max and market it as something special. Fantastic!
If they were to label it, “Ground from frozen boxed Bull meat, imported from New Zeeland”, I don’t think it would have the same appeal as “Pasture raised beef”.

[wannabechef]

Sounds better than "old meat from an old cow about to die"!

[pancho]

Too many people just like the sound of some catch phrase.
Very few know what it means.

[Laura]

Originally Posted by wannabechef

Sounds better than "old meat from an old cow about to die"!

Utility grade AKA "Canner" it's what's put in canned chii and soups, also known as dairy cow down to her last teat.

There was a discount grocery store chain with excellent meat prices. The meat was stamped USDA inspected but didn't have a grade. Good flavor, but no matter what the cut, it had to be pot roasted for hours.


Anyway, this is an area I know a little something about. The specs would fall under "Certified Organic" which mean NEVER had a hormone, anti-biotic, never had non-organic feed, wormers or treatments or ever been on land where non-organic pesticides or herbicides were used. Unless of course, other things didn't work. Everything is documented by endless reams of paperwork.

Not all beef in the west is pastured. Much of it is free ranged before going to feed lots. It can be fattened on sugar beets, overripe produce, anything before the final graining.

A lot of us chose not to be certified, we'd rather farm than do endless paperwork. We sell Organic. There are a lot of posers and a lot of people who don't know any better.

Now for more than a half century, Hayseed Ranch has been raising organic beef, hay and produce, then hauling the cattle out to market and buying beef through the distributor to sell in the family grocery store which closed 10 years ago. They only sold hay and vegetables locally and hadn't even eaten their own beef until last year.

Last year the bottom fell out of the beef market and it wasn't worth the fuel to haul them, Hayseed went in the hole on the first load. They buyers at market take this grass-fed pastured organic beef put 'em on a feed lot and stuff them full of grain adding a bunch of fat. Check out consumer prices for regular beef at the store and the price of organic grass-fed beef at the store. It ain't the farmer making the money.

He cut out the middlemen and let me do the local marketing. Now that we have the bugs worked out, next season will go much easier and faster. He's getting twice the money for his cattle without transport costs, local people are picking up extra work, more of us are getting a product we want and trust, at a price we can afford.

I don't trust store ground beef. That stuff in chubs, I've found chunks of veins and kidney. That's stuff that belongs in chorizo and other ethnic sausages.

[haypoint]

Originally Posted by wannabechef

Sounds better than "old meat from an old cow about to die"!

Nearly every day a semi load of culls travels through Michigan headed for Green Bay, WI. There are two buyers for these cows. One is a buyer for the Packing Plant. He buys the worst ones that he thinks will survive the trip. The other guy buys the ones the first buyer wouldn't. At the Packing Plant, the factory buyer's cows are unloaded. Then the trailer of the others shows up. most survive and are able to walk to the killing floor. He may only pay 45 cents a pound at auction, but at the Packing Plant, he'll get 75 cents. If one dies in route, it costs $25 to bury it. Even with a few deaths, he makes it up on the rest.
This is the beef in all your processed stuff, canned stew, sauces, TV dinners, Lean Cuisine, etc.

[haypoint]

Originally Posted by Laura

Utility grade AKA "Canner" it's what's put in canned chii and soups, also known as dairy cow down to her last teat.

There was a discount grocery store chain with excellent meat prices. The meat was stamped USDA inspected but didn't have a grade. Good flavor, but no matter what the cut, it had to be pot roasted for hours.


Anyway, this is an area I know a little something about. The specs would fall under "Certified Organic" which mean NEVER had a hormone, anti-biotic, never had non-organic feed, wormers or treatments or ever been on land where non-organic pesticides or herbicides were used. Unless of course, other things didn't work. Everything is documented by endless reams of paperwork.

Not all beef in the west is pastured. Much of it is free ranged before going to feed lots. It can be fattened on sugar beets, overripe produce, anything before the final graining.

A lot of us chose not to be certified, we'd rather farm than do endless paperwork. We sell Organic. There are a lot of posers and a lot of people who don't know any better.

Now for more than a half century, Hayseed Ranch has been raising organic beef, hay and produce, then hauling the cattle out to market and buying beef through the distributor to sell in the family grocery store which closed 10 years ago. They only sold hay and vegetables locally and hadn't even eaten their own beef until last year.

Last year the bottom fell out of the beef market and it wasn't worth the fuel to haul them, Hayseed went in the hole on the first load. They buyers at market take this grass-fed pastured organic beef put 'em on a feed lot and stuff them full of grain adding a bunch of fat. Check out consumer prices for regular beef at the store and the price of organic grass-fed beef at the store. It ain't the farmer making the money.

He cut out the middlemen and let me do the local marketing. Now that we have the bugs worked out, next season will go much easier and faster. He's getting twice the money for his cattle without transport costs, local people are picking up extra work, more of us are getting a product we want and trust, at a price we can afford.

I don't trust store ground beef. That stuff in chubs, I've found chunks of veins and kidney. That's stuff that belongs in chorizo and other ethnic sausages.

"Unless other things didn't work" needs a bit more 'splainin. Organicly raised beef can have medication injections. Most folks don't know this.

To me, from the East, free range and pastured is grass fed, so I lump them together. There is a guy in the pig section that raises pasture raised pork. In his pastures, he adds stuff, just like you mentioned for range cattle.

I am greatful for the buy local movement. The public has been told so many half truths, they don't know what to believe.
In the big meat processing plants, they have a machine that they throw the bones into and it spins around and takes the rest of the meat off the bones. That is where I've seen those tubes of hamburger filled up.

In Michigan, in order to sell beef retail requires a facility that has a USDA inspector. The slaughter facility pays their wages. I can't take a steer to a local slaughter facility, have it slaughtered and then have buyers come get their portions. If I sell the steer to four families and the butcher splits it into four equal boxes, four families can get their beef that way. Sort of makes it hard for people that can't take that much beef.

I had a 2300 pound 4 year old Angus bull. He was thick. I could sell at Auction and get $1600 after shipping and commission. I could take him to slaughter and get 1200 pounds of nice lean organic hamburger. After slaughter costs, I could sell hamburger for $2.00 a pound and make money.
But I don't know 120 people that would take 10 pounds of burger or 12 people that would take 100 pounds. I would have to make everyone a part owner in the live bull in order to be legal without a USDA inspector. Just wasn't possible. He went to Auction.

If you are marketing grass fed beef or range fed beef, be very careful. If you sell a tough steak, they won't be back and won't try grass fed again. I saw it happen. But if you can grind it up, folks love lean burger. Good luck.

[Trixie]

I think people are looking for cleaner, healthier food and yes, the advertising people will certainly take advantage of that.

Perhaps that speaks to the gullibility of the consumer - but it speaks more loudly of the duplicity of the marketers and of our government for allowing it.

Again, like the 'all natural growth hormone - arsenic' fed to chickens.

[Warwalk]

I'd asked this once before and was laughed down (not here though). What is the difference between grass fed and grain fed? Aren't grains a grass? If I put a herd out on some deep green barley or wheat, would this constitute grass or grain? I seriously don't know the difference, and have heard very different things about it.

Some swear on total grass. Some say grain provides fat, and fat provides flavor. I'm not necessarily looking for a "coke vs pepsi" assessment as to flavor or texture, just what constitutes a grass vs a grain, and what constitutes grass fed vs grain fed.

[Laura]

"Unless other things didn't work" needs a bit more 'splainin. Organicly raised beef can have medication injections. Most folks don't know this.

Yeah, Certified Organic can have very little meaning other than a paper trail. It means organic methods were used and failed before non-organic means were used.

I'm sure all of this beef will be very tender and tastey. All lean young bulls dropped at the same time in the pasture where they were born. No transportation stress, no smell of blood or death, and immediately hung and drained.

Some of the health foodie customers who don't know Hayseed or his reputation, haven't been to his farms and didn't want to meet their live beef, or what the were looking at if they did, are grateful I was there and could report clean humane kills and organ inspections showed good health.

People want healthy food, but they don't want to be too in touch with it.

We're selling whole or half small beef, angus/shorthorn cross. Total cost to buyers with cut & wrap is $3.69 lb. Cheaper than ground beef at the local store. Everybody wins but the middleman in civilization. I suggested to potential buyers in find another family to share a half with. My half came out 197 pounds hanging weight and no fat. He was 18 months old.

I gave away the pork in my freezer I bought few years ago. I could not digest it. It was supposed to be "Organic" fed just the way Tony does it. Unfortunately not. Tony feeds grain soaked in yogurt and garden veggies. This pig was fed Purina pork chow and unsteamed restaraunt garbage.

[haypoint]

Originally Posted by Laura

Yeah, Certified Organic can have very little meaning other than a paper trail. It means organic methods were used and failed before non-organic means were used.

I'm sure all of this beef will be very tender and tastey. All lean young bulls dropped at the same time in the pasture where they were born. No transportation stress, no smell of blood or death, and immediately hung and drained.

Some of the health foodie customers who don't know Hayseed or his reputation, haven't been to his farms and didn't want to meet their live beef, or what the were looking at if they did, are grateful I was there and could report clean humane kills and organ inspections showed good health.

People want healthy food, but they don't want to be too in touch with it.

We're selling whole or half small beef, angus/shorthorn cross. Total cost to buyers with cut & wrap is $3.69 lb. Cheaper than ground beef at the local store. Everybody wins but the middleman in civilization. I suggested to potential buyers in find another family to share a half with. My half came out 197 pounds hanging weight and no fat. He was 18 months old.

I gave away the pork in my freezer I bought few years ago. I could not digest it. It was supposed to be "Organic" fed just the way Tony does it. Unfortunately not. Tony feeds grain soaked in yogurt and garden veggies. This pig was fed Purina pork chow and unsteamed restaraunt garbage.

Sounds great. This is the way small operations can take advantage of the public's interest in buy local and humane treatment.

I like my burgers lean, but beyond that I want some marbling in my steak. Grown fast gives some fat and gets them to market weight sooner. Grown slower, but butchered young is good, too. Grown slow, very lean and older is a recipe for boot leather, IMHO.

Tough pork is often too lean or too old or both. I don't advise restaraunt garbage, but don't see how it would make a pig tough, unless they didn't get much Purina hog grower and the pig took a long time to "graduate".

[haypoint]

Originally Posted by Warwalk

I'd asked this once before and was laughed down (not here though). What is the difference between grass fed and grain fed? Aren't grains a grass? If I put a herd out on some deep green barley or wheat, would this constitute grass or grain? I seriously don't know the difference, and have heard very different things about it.

Some swear on total grass. Some say grain provides fat, and fat provides flavor. I'm not necessarily looking for a "coke vs pepsi" assessment as to flavor or texture, just what constitutes a grass vs a grain, and what constitutes grass fed vs grain fed.

Most folks don’t see grains as grass and vice versa. It is a deeply personal choice. Everyone believes their method best. Hay and pasture and I guess rangelands, too, are grass fed. Almost all cattle are raised on grass. Most cattle are finished on corn and soybeans. This is what happens at a feed lot. This adds flavor and marbling and prevents a tough, dry steak. Fat isn’t good for you, you know? So, those that abstain from finishing their cattle on grain, point to the health benefits of less fat.
Grazing a grain field while the grain heads were there isn't common. Grazing shore wheat is clearly grass raised. Feeding on ripened heads of grain, is clearly grain fed.

[haypoint]

Originally Posted by Trixie

I think people are looking for cleaner, healthier food and yes, the advertising people will certainly take advantage of that.

Perhaps that speaks to the gullibility of the consumer - but it speaks more loudly of the duplicity of the marketers and of our government for allowing it.

Again, like the 'all natural growth hormone - arsenic' fed to chickens.

Arsenic is a naturally occurring metal found naturally in the soil. In large quantities it can be a poison. So can salt. It does not built up in the chickens and is only fed early in the growth cycle. None exists in the finished product.
Government allows it? You calling for more government control or just expect the government should teach the consumers more about what they should eat?
OK, back to topic......

[unregistered168043]

I know the drill, the over-all theme from haypoint seems to always be that big ag practices ( grain feeding, feed lot cattle, hormones, anti biotics, caged chicken, etc, etc ) are supposed to be exactly the same as truly free range, natural food. His story is that taking a cow, injecting it with hormones, antibiotics and God knows what else, will produce the same or better meat then a free range, organically raised animal. BALONEY.

[Maverick_mg]

Originally Posted by Darntootin

I know the drill, the over-all theme from haypoint seems to always be that big ag practices ( grain feeding, feed lot cattle, hormones, anti biotics, caged chicken, etc, etc ) are supposed to be exactly the same as truly free range, natural food. His story is that taking a cow, injecting it with hormones, antibiotics and God knows what else, will produce the same or better meat then a free range, organically raised animal. BALONEY.

I took it different. Maybe I am misunderstanding, but I thought he was talking about the benefits of buying local cause they will doing anything in the stores to turn a buck. If that's the case, I agree with him here. It's the reason after I started really learning about my food, I decided to buy local from farms I could visit and talk to the farmer. For me, buying local turned into growing and raising my own and now I sell local.

[pancho]

Originally Posted by haypoint

Arsenic is a naturally occurring metal found naturally in the soil. In large quantities it can be a poison. So can salt. It does not built up in the chickens and is only fed early in the growth cycle. None exists in the finished product.
Government allows it? You calling for more government control or just expect the government should teach the consumers more about what they should eat?
OK, back to topic......

I had an uncle that sold an old horse many times for a very good price then got him back for very little.
He fed the horse a small amount of arsenic. The old horse would fatten up and start acting like a yearling. Someone would buy him and a few weeks without the arsenic and he would be skin and bones and could barely walk.

[haypoint]

Originally Posted by pancho

I had an uncle that sold an old horse many times for a very good price then got him back for very little.
He fed the horse a small amount of arsenic. The old horse would fatten up and start acting like a yearling. Someone would buy him and a few weeks without the arsenic and he would be skin and bones and could barely walk.

So is it a poison or health aid?

[pancho]

Originally Posted by haypoint

So is it a poison or health aid?

According to how much you give the animal.
It can be both.

[Lazy J]

Originally Posted by Trixie

Again, like the 'all natural growth hormone - arsenic' fed to chickens.

Are we really going to go down this path again?!?!?

Arsanilic acid is NOT a hormone! Of course if you keep telling yourself this lie long enough you might others might believe it but it is still a lie.

Arsanilic acid has some good antimicrobial benefits, but in my book it carries too many challenges to use in commercial rations.

Jim

[haypoint]

Originally Posted by Darntootin

I know the drill, the over-all theme from haypoint seems to always be that big ag practices ( grain feeding, feed lot cattle, hormones, anti biotics, caged chicken, etc, etc ) are supposed to be exactly the same as truly free range, natural food. His story is that taking a cow, injecting it with hormones, antibiotics and God knows what else, will produce the same or better meat then a free range, organically raised animal. BALONEY.

Naw, I just can't stand lies. Half truths don't set well either. Doesn't matter if you are saying it or the grocery store. Life is complicated. The simple life even more so.
I wish that steer out on pasture tasted jucier than that steer in a foot of mud with it's head in a feed bunk full of corn and soy meal. I wish my free range hens showed their happiness by outproducing those factory raised hens. I wish folks would get their facts straight. There is so much we could agree on, but I get caught up on the myths and it makes it hard to have a decent conversation.
If a calf has a growth hormone implant when weined and it provided an increase in appitite for awhile, then is empty and the body flushes it from it's system over a few weeks and the hormone that was added is no longer in that calf, will you say that this calf is inferior to a calf that has never had the implant? I like that idea. It sort of fits with what I want to believe about a chemical free food chain. But it isn't true and I want you to give it up so we can talk about factual issues. Should I ignore your claim that commercial beef has added hormones in it? Should I side with you when people say young girls are maturing faster because of bovine growth hormones in our food?

Since most cattle are out on pasture most of their whole lives, a retailer can honestly say the meat in their showcase is from pasture raised beef.

A retailer can honestly say there burger is from grass fed beef, if that meat came from an imported box of old bull.

People are not becoming resistant to antibiotics because of antibiotics in their food. Livestock drugs are mostly from different chemical families from human drugs. Besides, cattle must undergo a holding period until well after the drugs have left their systems. But you don't trust the farmer. I get that. I don't believe in planting by the moon's phase or witching water, but I don't feel the need to tell you about it at every conversation.

Grain feeding isn't the devil's work. There is a reason for it. It didn't just pop into someone's head and everyone followed blindly. If the report that dangerous ecoli formed in grain fed cattle and not grass fed hadn't been found to be bogus, I could understand your reasoning.

I don't like caged chickens. But I'll defend the huge operations from lies that they are chock full of diseases and I'll call you for perpetuating the myth that free range hens are healthier.

That doesn't make me pro-Big Ag, it makes me pro-truth. I'll admit it would be a heck of a lot easier to pretend all the homesteading things I've done and continue to do are perfect and justified and wholesome and better. My farm and my farmers market competes with big ag and super markets. Making up stories about them doesn't enhance my products. I need to know and understand their methods and that allows me to progress doing things my way for real reasons. Instead of clinging to some outdated nonsense.

[haypoint]

Originally Posted by pancho

According to how much you give the animal.
It can be both.

Exactly. You get a gold star.