Accurate Statistic OR Maybe Not So Much

YuccaFlatsRanch · #1 05/27/12, 01:27 PM

Headline: Almost 50% of U.S. Households On Government Assistance. Sounds terrible doesn't it - Until you read that this number includes Social Security, Medicare, Military and Government civilian retirements, VA benefits, as well as Food Stamps, Section 8 housing, and unemployment. The last three wouldn't sell many papers though, would it.

Number of the Week: Half of U.S. Lives in Household Getting Benefits - Real Time Economics - WSJ

People are too stupid to read the whole article these days and the MSM knows it.

willow_girl · #2 05/27/12, 05:03 PM

Wow. We get

Quote:

Social Security, Medicare, Military and Government civilian retirements, VA benefits,

Guess we're on the dole!

Ozarks Tom · #3 05/27/12, 05:19 PM

It's still a huge number, and getting bigger every day. Unsustainable.

TNHermit · #4 05/27/12, 05:32 PM

Well for one thing SS isn't a government benefit. I paid 15% of my money pretty much my whole life (self employed) so I don't consider that govt benefit and its not but they said that was only 16% of the 49% which still leaves it at 45.66% that are getting freebees.

Old Vet · #5 05/27/12, 09:23 PM

Why not include all retirement. That way it would be 60% at least. And that will be better than the ones that you mentioned.

plowjockey · #6 05/27/12, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNHermit

Well for one thing SS isn't a government benefit. I paid 15% of my money pretty much my whole life (self employed) so I don't consider that govt benefit and its not but they said that was only 16% of the 49% which still leaves it at 45.66% that are getting freebees.

Unless one dies rather quickly, after retirement, most will use much much more money, in SS payments and Medicare benefits, than they ever paid in.

Somebody else has to cover the difference, just like all the other programs.

YuccaFlatsRanch · #7 05/27/12, 10:40 PM

Call me an idiot, but the retirement paid to guys who completed 20 years plus in the Military and who put their butts (or became disabled doing so), on the line to protect this country can hardly be grouped into those "taking handouts from the Government". If you believe this then you are numbered among those who think "Freedom is FREE"!!!!

If you read and understand the Constitution, protecting the country is one of the only things the Government does that is truly Constitutional.

plowjockey · #8 05/27/12, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YuccaFlatsRanch

Call me an idiot, but the retirement paid to guys who completed 20 years plus in the Military and who put their butts (or became disabled doing so), on the line to protect this country can hardly be grouped into those "taking handouts from the Government". If you believe this then you are numbered among those who think "Freedom is FREE"!!!!

If you read and understand the Constitution, protecting the country is one of the only things the Government does that is truly Constitutional.

The courage and comittment of our troops, is certainly admirable, but when an otherwise, able-bodied 38 year old "retiree", gets Government money and benefits - for maybe the next 40 years, it shows that freedom certainly isn't "free" and is part of the problem why our country is broke.

Disabled Vets are another story. They need and should be taken care of.

Sawmill Jim · #9 05/28/12, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

The courage and comittment of our troops, is certainly admirable, but when an otherwise, able-bodied 38 year old "retiree", gets Government money and benefits - for maybe the next 40 years, it shows that freedom certainly isn't "free" and is part of the problem why our country is broke.

Disabled Vets are another story. They need and should be taken care of.

Don't think one needs tea leaves to read this one

You never worked anywhere that had a 20 year and out plan . You never put up with being moved all over the world for 20 years in the military even tho this is why some signed on for 20 or more years . But i am sure if you had you would turn it down for the good of the people

Sonshine · #10 05/28/12, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawmill Jim

Don't think one needs tea leaves to read this one

You never worked anywhere that had a 20 year and out plan . You never put up with being moved all over the world for 20 years in the military even tho this is why some signed on for 20 or more years . But i am sure if you had you would turn it down for the good of the people

As of right now DH has 29 years in the military with at least 3 years to go because he extended when he got his promotion. During that time we moved about every 3 years.

willow_girl · #11 05/28/12, 06:27 AM

Quote:

The courage and comittment of our troops, is certainly admirable, but when an otherwise, able-bodied 38 year old "retiree", gets Government money and benefits - for maybe the next 40 years, it shows that freedom certainly isn't "free" and is part of the problem why our country is broke.

The benefits are part of the reason why people enlist and stay in the military.

It's like your job -- if they eliminated the health insurance and 401K, it would make it harder to attract and retain quality employees.

YuccaFlatsRanch · #12 05/28/12, 10:26 AM

Not only does the Military have an Up and out at 20 program, but for Military Officers EVERYTHING is on the line until the officer is promoted to either Major in the Air Force, Army or Marines, and Lieutenant Commander in the Navy. That means until the 14-15 year point they can pass you over for promotion and then you are finished. That means NO JOB SECURITY AT ALL FOR THE FIRST 3/4ths of your career. At the O-4 level you get to stay for 20 and retire. To stay past 20 you have to make O-5 and to stay past 24 years you have to make O-6. The enlisted side has an up or out promotion system at some point too, I just have been out too long to know what it is these days. However, one evaluation which says "not recommended for promotion" kills both an officers and enlisted career. You pray you don't find the one superior who you clashed with. Take a look at all of the Commanding Officers that are "fired" each year and go figure the havoc they may have wreaked on others careers. No, the military is not a place for the timid.

In 24 1/2 years in the Navy I moved my family 13 times (including the last time when they moved me to a base close to where I would be retiring). They say that 3 Navy Moves causes the equivalent of "one good fires worth of damage" to your household goods. Lastly - they TELL YOU where you are going to live (try living in San Diego on an enlisted sailors pay) and you don't have the opportunity to say NO. In most cases you can't quit and if they were to let you quit, you probably were going to be let go anyway.

plowjockey · #13 05/28/12, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sawmill Jim

Don't think one needs tea leaves to read this one

You never worked anywhere that had a 20 year and out plan . You never put up with being moved all over the world for 20 years in the military even tho this is why some signed on for 20 or more years . But i am sure if you had you would turn it down for the good of the people

I'm not saying it is wrong.

What I am saying, is that it comes with a HUGE cost - every year, to our Government budget.

We are broke and this is part of the reason why.

Besides, I see many retirees "get out" at 40 years old, and get a good job with insurance and benefits.

All of the redundant benefits paid for by taxpayers, may not even be needed.

IMO, good soldiers stay in, because they want to, not because, of the bennies at the end.

TNHermit · #14 05/28/12, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plowjockey

I'm not saying it is wrong.

What I am saying, is that it comes with a HUGE cost - every year, to our Government budget.

We are broke and this is part of the reason why.

Besides, I see many retirees "get out" at 40 years old, and get a good job with insurance and benefits.

All of the redundant benefits paid for by taxpayers, may not even be needed.

IMO, good soldiers stay in, because they want to, not because, of the bennies at the end.

Have you ever given a son to protect your freedom and this country??? I bet if you do you will find the "benefits sorely lacking"
Oh yea I have

Those people may get out when they are forty. Which means they have lost 20 years of doing their own thing like you have . Not to mention the years it takes to readjust to the selfishness of the people they defend.

When we went back and forth to Nam I couldn't believe the change and the attitude of people we were supposed to defend while I watched my life in the form of wife and kids be destroyed.

If your dead set on spending less on military then put away your fairness and caring and tell them to go kick ass,get it over with and get home.

SquashNut · #15 05/28/12, 03:22 PM

It's getting so people who have never been in the military are getting better benifits.

OkieDavid · #16 05/28/12, 03:42 PM

Perhaps it helps to put Federal benefits into real world perspective- SS is paid into but there is no shoebox in a vault somewhere with your name on it. Civil Service Retirement, military retirement/disability is the same way. When you begin receiving benefits, the money comes from working folks who are paying in NOW.... It won't be many years before the working class outnumbers the baby boomers and begin to "challenge" the system. Once their numbers exceed the baby boomers, the elected politicians will begin to be influenced by them and I predict THAT will be the turning point. If you haven't saved up enough capitol INDEPENDENT of any Federal payments you receive to make it on your own ....you are up a creek. Notice all the recent "buzz" about "those over 55 have nothing to worry about"? The poor sap that is 54 or younger now will soon see their "anticipated retirement funding" cut on a sliding scale until someone in their 20's will be required to pay into a system their entire working lives and receive NOTHING. How long do you think they will stand that before they begin voting for someone else?

SquashNut · #17 05/28/12, 04:23 PM

don't forget the public school students. Not only do they get educated (maybe) many get free breakfast and lunch.

Home Harvest · #18 05/28/12, 04:25 PM

Rather than point out and debate each individual benefit, I'd llike to ask a question I believe gets to the heart of the numbers. Are we at a point where people are voting for persaonal gain, rather than with an eye toward what might be best for our country?

If curent federal spending levels are not sustainable, and cuts are needed to get back on track, what is to be cut. Every program has its benefactors and it's protectors. Any politician who promises to save those benefits gets votes, while any politician who cuts spending has no chance. It's the will of the people, But very dangerous.

SS is a ponzi scheme, and it's time is about up. It should have been an account system from the beginning. Like a 401K, it should be your money in, and your money out (plus interest). Instead it was set up so that all of our SS taxes go to the general treasury to make the current budget look better, and some other schmuck will have to deal with the future. How's it feel to be the schmuck? TNHermit rightfully claims the right to the money taken from him all those years. I feel the same way. But guys like TNHermit and myself have to face the fact that our money was spent long ago to balance the books and buy votes. Our money is long gone.

The question now becomes, do my grandchildren have the will and the ability to pay for MY retirement, as I did for my grandparents? Can they keep funding SS at the rate required for me to enjoy my golden years? Or will the house of cards built by the feds finally come crashing down?

OkieDavid · #19 05/28/12, 05:43 PM

@Home Harvest - Very well said. I agree 100%. Today's kids seem to be "all about me" I'm afraid. There are pockets that aren't but it's a big country and I must paint with a broad brush.

plowjockey · #20 05/28/12, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNHermit

Have you ever given a son to protect your freedom and this country??? I bet if you do you will find the "benefits sorely lacking"
Oh yea I have

Those people may get out when they are forty. Which means they have lost 20 years of doing their own thing like you have . Not to mention the years it takes to readjust to the selfishness of the people they defend.

When we went back and forth to Nam I couldn't believe the change and the attitude of people we were supposed to defend while I watched my life in the form of wife and kids be destroyed.

If your dead set on spending less on military then put away your fairness and caring and tell them to go kick ass,get it over with and get home.

LOL.

Isn't it a bit presumptuous of you, to think, thas since I dare express "Liberal views", that I couldn't possbily be a U.S. Military Veteran, myself?

What did the retirees actually "lose" in those 20 years? They got paid. They got fed. They worked on the most sophisticated technology in the world. They raised their families. They earned college degrees. Many (of the smart ones) have Military Contractor connections, that get them a great gig, right after retiree separation.

Granted, when they go to war, it certainly separates them from the Civilian world, but otherwise, Military life is not always that bad, at least what I saw. Many actually enjoy Military life.

My Military experience saw "lifers", many who who were outstanding and a true inspiration in leadership. Many other's literally "counted the days" to retirement, even years away. There were basiclly there, doing minimal work, grousing constantly, not even bothering with promotion. Some even faking ailments to get disability, in addition to their Military retirement.

Like I stated earlier, our true Military Leaders, are there, because they want to be there, not because they are looking forward to lifetime BX access, courtesy of taxpayers.

I want a strong Military, too, but carte blanche spending doesn't necessarily guarentee one, especially since we are borrowing our Military budget from foreign countries.