Violent crime rates.. US vs Canada

[Yvonne's hubby]

In another thread a discussion came up about the higher violent crime rate in the US compared to Canada. Rather than derail the other thread I thought we could discuss the differences between the two countries, and try to figure out why the US violent crime rate is higher than that in Canada... Could it be the stricter gun laws in Canada? Economic differences? Cultural differences? Any other factors? Maybe people dont get as angry in cold weather? Maybe they are too busy staying warm? What do yall think the difference is?

[haypoint]

Originally Posted by Yvonne's hubby

In another thread a discussion came up about the higher violent crime rate in the US compared to Canada. Rather than derail the other thread I thought we could discuss the differences between the two countries, and try to figure out why the US violent crime rate is higher than that in Canada... Could it be the stricter gun laws in Canada? Economic differences? Cultural differences? Any other factors? Maybe people dont get as angry in cold weather? Maybe they are too busy staying warm? What do yall think the difference is?

While there are many similarities between the US and Canada, there are a few that provide stark contrast.

In the US, 70% of felonies (major crimes) are committed by Blacks, while the Black population represents 20% of the country’s population.

In Canada, 70% of the Provincial prisoners (major crimes) are committed by Native Americans, while Natives represent 28% of the country’s population.

The US spends very little on counseling, therapy, rehabilitation and has a recidivism rate of about 59%. Canada spends $10,000 per prisoner, per year on counseling, therapy, rehabilitation and has a recidivism rate of about 59%.

Statistically, between the Blacks in the US and the Native Americans in Canada, drugs are a major factor in the US, while alcohol is the major contributor in Canada.

I once believed criminal behavior was a result of poverty, but most poor people do not commit crimes. It isn’t cultural, either, as most Blacks do not commit crimes.

I’m not drawing any conclusions, just relaying statistics.
For an answer to your question, the answer might be more easily understood in the movie, “ Boys in the Hood”.

Ever notice that in Canada and other countries outside the US that Public Restrooms can have exposed plumbing, while Public Restrooms in the US have to be somewhat destruction-proof? We have a destructive element in our population that doesn’t exist elsewhere.

[tyusclan]

The total number of murders in the United States in about 4.3 per 100,000 population. In Canada it's about 1.5. That's 2.8 more people killed in the USA than in Canada per 100,000 people. We have over 300,000,000 million people in a land area smaller than Canada, which has a population of just over 34,000,000.

I think one major factor is simply the less dense population. Fewer people in an area equates to less crime. We have that proven here all the time. The VAST majority of crime in the US is in the large cities. I haven't looked it up, but I would imagine that crime in Canada's larger cities would probably be very close to a similarly densely populated city in the US.

The guns have very little to do with the crime. The desire to commit violence is in the individual. The gun, knife, car, baseball bat, or frying pan used to do it is only the tool. If the guns were the problem, Florida's crime rates should have gone up every time we loosened restrictions on them. Instead we had a consistent decline in crime until the recession. Since the onset of the downturn we (as most states) have seen an uptick in the crime rate.

[DaleK]

Closest cities to Toronto in the US are Chicago and Houston, both pretty close to the same urban population as Toronto

Toronto 2007 - 2.5 million people - 84 murders
Chicago 2007 - 442 murders
Houston 2006 (couldn't find 2007 quickly) - 334 murders

[tyusclan]

I appreciate you looking that up.

I don't know what all the answers are.

I think the fact that guns are more prolific and easier to get could be a factor, but I do not believe it is the factor. We have more guns than people in this country, and if that were the only reason, our crime rates should be even higher than they are.

I think the immigration laws may play a part as well. A lot of our violent crime is committed by illegal immigrants. Canada has much more stringent immigration laws than the US, and enforces them much better. We have about two-thirds as many illegal immigrants in the US as Canada's total population.

[naturelover]

Originally Posted by tyusclan

The total number of murders in the United States in about 4.3 per 100,000 population. In Canada it's about 1.5. That's 2.8 more people killed in Canada per 100,000 people. We have over 300,000,000 million people in a land area smaller than Canada, which has a population of just over 34,000,000.

I think one major factor is simply the less dense population. Fewer people in an area equates to less crime.

Not to be too picky, but the above should read 2.8 more people killed in USA per 100,000 people. Otherwise - here are some maps to show population density per sq. mi.

Canada, with 3.3 people per square kilometre, has one of the lowest population densities in the world. Most of Canada's population of 34 million lives within 200 kilometres of the United States. Thousands of kilometres to the north, our polar region — the Yukon Territory, the Northwest Territories and Nunavut — is relatively empty, embracing 41% of our land mass but only 0.3% of our population. Human habitation in the solitary north clings largely to scattered settlements: villages among vast expanses of virgin ice, snow, tundra and taiga.





U.S. population density within each county, in persons per sq. mile (lower 48 states only): Light to dark (yellow to blue): 1-4 (y), 5-9 (lt. green), 10-24 (teal), 25-49 (dk. teal), 50-99 (blue-green), 100-249 (blue), 250-66,995 (dark blue).




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[Tiempo]

You're all over thinking it.

Hockey

[Ed Norman]

Originally Posted by Tiempo

You're all over thinking it.

Hockey

Hey, that's right. Remember those hockey riots this summer when Canada won or lost some game? (Who cares, it's hockey). That showed a population ready to explode at the drop of a puck.

[oldasrocks]

So go look at the percentages of people on welfare. Compare those and you might be shocked.

[tyusclan]

Originally Posted by tyusclan

The total number of murders in the United States in about 4.3 per 100,000 population. In Canada it's about 1.5. That's 2.8 more people killed in Canada per 100,000 people. We have over 300,000,000 million people in a land area smaller than Canada, which has a population of just over 34,000,000.

Originally Posted by naturelover

Not to be too picky, but the above should read 2.8 more people killed in USA per 100,000 people.

Sorry. That was a typo. I was thinking faster than I was typing. I meant to say, '....2.8 more people killed in the USA than in Canada....'

[snoozy]

Look at that map of Canada! They're massing on the border, folks -- we need to arm ourselves against the invading Canucks!

[naturelover]

Originally Posted by snoozy

Look at that map of Canada! They're massing on the border, folks -- we need to arm ourselves against the invading Canucks!

LOL. Didn't you know that we've been massing along the border for 200 years to guard it against invading Murkans.

.

[willow_girl]

Look at that map of Canada! They're massing on the border, folks -- we need to arm ourselves against the invading Canucks!

I don't care who you are, that's funny!

[Ana Bluebird]

The elephant in the room -- too many people, not enough resources, only going to get worse. Just look at the extremely over-populated countries of the world. Times will be hard. But, NO, I don't want to live in Canada, well, maybe in the summers.

[Beeman]

I am starting to like cold weather just because it keeps the riffraff down around here. The cold defineitely cuts down on crime.

[Jenn]

Think I read this somewhere as being supported by evidence (but I have been wrong before- well once that I know of anyway ;> ) :

Murder/killing rates are lower where there are less access to guns which are the most effective at killing. Yes, murders happen and those who really want to kill someone find a way. It's the sort of folks who use a gun instead of their fists if they hadn't been able to get a gun so easily who kill more in the US than they would in UK or Canada.

Aside from drugs of abuse- illegal ones here, alcohol in Canada- poverty is more common in each country amongst blacks and Indians respectively. I still think poverty increases likelihood of criminal behavior or at least the likelihood of being caught and convicted of crime.

[Oak Leaf]

I'm sure population density plays a part.

As for protecting against invading Canadians... I believe there's talk about the US gov't building a wall along the Canadian border. *roll eyes*.

I would say that the MAJOR difference is that the US builds on FEAR. There's a lot of "us" vs "them" thinking. On everything from politics to race to class to culture... everything. Everyone is trying to get their piece of the pie and everyone is worried that one of "them" may get a larger slice. Media/advertising builds on this because it's beneficial to them. I think... maybe that's the way your government (or whoever's at the top) likes it, because if you're fighting among yourselves, you're too busy to fight 'The Man'.

In Canada, politics are more relaxed (even if it looks like there's more yelling! lol), you DON'T know how other people vote, there are more than 2 parties... the country isn't divided into Republicans and Democrats. Generally speaking, we only "talk politics" the month before an election. None of this year long or two year long campaigning that goes on.

Canadians (generally speaking here) are more of a live and let live type of people. The difference is quite possibly the way the US was founded. Fighting for their way in the world, fighting to have a country, fighting to be the best.... and that's all very great and noble.... but sometimes you don't NEED to fight everything all the time.

There, I said it. I imagine this post won't make me popular around here!

[Yvonne's hubby]

Ok, I have been doing some looking at the number of murders and non negligent manslaughter cases in the US. Without copying and pasting all the numbers heres some basics I found...

roughly half of them are committed by persons between the ages of 15 and 25
roughly 10 times as many are committed by males than females
there seems to be no real change in per capita stats when comparing city size... there seems to be 4 to 5 per hundred thousand regardless of city size.
nearly 60 percent are committed by blacks and nearly 40 percent by whites
On a side note, forcible rape numbers were reversed with less than 20 percent committed by blacks and nearly 80 percent committed by whites.

Overall violent crime which includes forcible rape, burglary assault and a couple other nasty things provide some interesting data as well.

South Carolina has earned the number one place among the states with 766 violent crimes per 100K while Maine comes in dead last with only 116 per 100K.
tennessee ranks number three in the nation while its northern neighbor kentucky is ranked at number forty...
Washington DC while not a state blows the rest of our nation away hands down.... more than double any of the states with 1508 per hundred thousand! This is just violent crimes and does not include the white collar crimes committed within the halls of congress.

source.. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...pulation-group

[haypoint]

I think the Canadians are huddling up close to the border to absorb some of our warmth.

To link poverty with crime is unfair to the majority of poor people that don't commit crime. It is also unfair to believe that poor people that didn't commit a crime are sent to prison, while rich people that do commit crimes stay home. Makes good headlines, but generally just isn't so.

Education and addiction counseling have not reduced the revolving door of prison. Bottom line, criminals commit crime. Educate a criminal and you have smarter criminals.

Guns and population density are not the main factors. Socialization is. Every major crime area has a single parent birth rate above 60% and a corresponding school dropout rate.

BTW, While Yvonne's hubby mentions forceable rapes by Blacks is only 20%, I'd like to add that Blacks represent 12% of our total population.

Black population in Washington D.C. is nearly 5 times the national average. The Black population in Maine, the state cited as the lowest percentage of violent crimes, is just over one percent about a tenth the national average.

Let me repeat, these are just facts. Being Black doesn't make a person a criminal. Most Blacks do not commit crimes. However, inner city black men, from single parents, have crime rates far above the national average. I don't know why.

[Tiempo]

Originally Posted by snoozy

Look at that map of Canada! They're massing on the border, folks -- we need to arm ourselves against the invading Canucks!