Are young people getting dumder or lazier?

[primroselane]

The United States used to lead the world in the number of 25- to 34-year-olds with college degrees. Now it ranks 12th among 36 developed nations.

“The growing education deficit is no less a threat to our nation’s long-term well-being than the current fiscal crisis,” Gaston Caperton, the president of the College Board, warned.

Melinda Gates pledged that she and Bill would contribute up to $110 million to improve remedial programs, in an effort to increase graduation rates.

Canada now leads the world in educational attainment, with about 56 percent of its young adults having earned at least associate’s degrees in 2007, compared with only 40 percent of those in the United States.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/23/ed...ollege.html?hp

[Shygal]

Are young people getting dumder or lazier?

Maybe its not just young people

[pancho]

Don't know if it is a case of our young people getting dumber and lazier or if it is a case of the young people in other countries with more ambition, work ethics, desire to learn, and new opportunities.

[Laura Zone 10]

Curious.

Maybe the number of illegal aliens in our country between the ages of 25-34 is bumping the stats in an artificial way?

Maybe because college is so dang expensive.....and if you are not a minority or live an alternative lifestyle, there is no 'free rides' out there for you?

Maybe these are bull poop numbers in the first place?

Read the last paragraph.

The group’s first five recommendations all concern K-12 education, calling for more state-financed preschool programs, better high school and middle school college counseling, dropout prevention programs, an alignment with international curricular standards and improved teacher quality. College costs were also implicated, with recommendations for more need-based financial aid, and further efforts to keep college affordable.

Maybe this is bull poop propaganda designed to scare the reader and manipulate them mentally into thinking they need to ship their 2 year old off to a government ran daycare so they can be smart.

What did Hitler say??
1. All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.

2. He alone, who owns the youth, gains the future.

3. I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few.

4. If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.
Adolf Hitler

[willow_girl]

Maybe because college is so dang expensive.....and if you are not a minority or live an alternative lifestyle, there is no 'free rides' out there for you?

Kewl! You mean I can get a grant just for being bi? When did THAT start?

Maybe I can afford to go back to school after all!

[springvalley]

[QUOTE=Laura Zone 5;4543674]Curious.

Maybe the number of illegal aliens in our country between the ages of 25-34 is bumping the stats in an artificial way?

Maybe because college is so dang expensive.....and if you are not a minority or live an alternative lifestyle, there is no 'free rides' out there for you?

Maybe these are bull poop numbers in the first place?

Laura, I don`t think illegal aliens have anything to do with it, and as far as I know you can`t get a free ride in college just because your gay, a minority or what ever. You can get a free ride if you do very well in high school and a very good athlete. I do think the sedintary lifestyle most people have has something to do with it (as far as being lazy) And I do think common sence in young people is far removed. And I do think our schools are dumbing down our kids, mostly because the Government has no money for our school systems, they would rather give it to investment bankers for bonus money. I have no clue what to do, it takes someone smarter than I to figure this out. After all I have never gone past high school. >Thanks Marc

[Scott SW Ohio]

Originally Posted by Laura Zone 5

Curious.

Maybe because college is so dang expensive.....and if you are not a minority or live an alternative lifestyle, there is no 'free rides' out there for you?

[/URL]

That's kind of an ugly comment. You are right, college is expensive. But it is not true that you have to be a minority to get significant money for your education. My daughter is starting school next month with a full tuition scholarship from her college (Roanoke), plus other scholarships that cover most of her room, board, books and fees. A good friend of hers has been accepted at West Point, all expenses paid. Both these kids are as white as I assume you are.

Maybe paying for college is easier for some folks than for others - I don't have any personal knowledge about that - but based on our experience there still are options out there for kids who want to go to college.

[Laura Zone 10]

Originally Posted by willow_girl

Kewl! You mean I can get a grant just for being bi? When did THAT start?

Maybe I can afford to go back to school after all!

Girl......When searching for 'scholarships and grants' for my daughter the GLTB whatever group gives out gazillions of dollars.
Google it. Seriously.

You will have to write a paper (essay) but that's it. One place you had to commit to going to a 'rally' or 'meeting'......

go to www.collegeboard.org and click on 'scholarships'.

[Laura Zone 10]

Originally Posted by Scott SW Ohio

That's kind of an ugly comment. You are right, college is expensive. But it is not true that you have to be a minority to get significant money for your education. My daughter is starting school next month with a full tuition scholarship from her college (Roanoke), plus other scholarships that cover most of her room, board, books and fees. A good friend of hers has been accepted at West Point, all expenses paid. Both these kids are as white as I assume you are.

Maybe paying for college is easier for some folks than for others - I don't have any personal knowledge about that - but based on our experience there still are options out there for kids who want to go to college.

When my daughter and I went searching for scholarships (www.collegeboard.org click on scholarships in the culinary field)
We found that there were many many scholarships available for (specifically) Blacks and Latino's, GLBT, and people who profess any religion except Christianity.

I spent HOURS and HOURS looking for money.

We don't qualify for 'grants' as we 'make too much money' (never mind my dh works 2 jobs in the summer and I work 2 jobs year round to make ends meet). We are married (there is OOOOOODLES of money out there for kids of divorce or who do not know their fathers) and we, are white (OOOOODLES of money out there for a rainbow of pigment, just not white)

I did the research. I do not say this tounge in cheek. I say it from hours of experience. Sheets and sheets of printed paper.
I am not being 'ugly' for arguments sake. I am being honest about MY PERSONAL experience!!

[Ardie/WI]

Originally Posted by Shygal

Are young people getting dumder or lazier?

Maybe its not just young people

[Scott SW Ohio]

Originally Posted by Laura Zone 5

When my daughter and I went searching for scholarships (www.collegeboard.org click on scholarships in the culinary field)
We found that there were many many scholarships available for (specifically) Blacks and Latino's, GLBT, and people who profess any religion except Christianity.

I spent HOURS and HOURS looking for money.

We don't qualify for 'grants' as we 'make too much money' (never mind my dh works 2 jobs in the summer and I work 2 jobs year round to make ends meet). We are married (there is OOOOOODLES of money out there for kids of divorce or who do not know their fathers) and we, are white (OOOOODLES of money out there for a rainbow of pigment, just not white)

I did the research. I do not say this tounge in cheek. I say it from hours of experience. Sheets and sheets of printed paper.
I am not being 'ugly' for arguments sake. I am being honest about MY PERSONAL experience!!

We did not qualify for any need-based aid either. All my daughter's money comes from competitive scholarships. And we are a married couple, just like you.

I stand by what I said - asserting that only minorities get free rides to college is an ugly misstatement of the facts. I did the research too, at least 50 hours in the past year researching and pursuing scholarships, and there are a lot of scholarship sources out there - for white kids as well as for others. I did see set-aside scholarships for various ethnicities, but I'd say (based on my own experience) there must be ten times as many scholarship options that do not stipulate anything about a student's race.


As far as the religious angle, there are scholarships for Lutherans, and Quakers, and Methodists, and so on. Wittenberg and Earlham are two examples of schools we checked out with religious affiliations who give a big break (up to $7000) to folks active in their denominations. We are atheists and not eligible for any of this, so count yourself fortunate here - at least you might have a chance at some church money.

I will say that I looked at sources for college money unaffiliated with particular colleges - such as Target, Coca-Cola, Gates Foundation and so on. This stuff is mostly what comes up in generalized web searches. I don't see these sources as scams, exactly, but my feeling is that they give out relatively few awards for the large number of applications they attract. We did not end up with any money from any of those. I think your best bet is to find schools that have good internal competitive scholarship programs, get accepted at these schools, and then pursue that internal funding.

Seriously, I wish you the best in finding something for your daughter.

[Laura Zone 10]

Originally Posted by Scott SW Ohio

We did not qualify for any need-based aid either. All my daughter's money comes from competitive scholarships. And we are a married couple, just like you.

I stand by what I said - asserting that only minorities get free rides to college is an ugly misstatement of the facts.

Never said "only", here's what I said:
"We found that there were many many scholarships available for (specifically) Blacks and Latino's, GLBT, and people who profess any religion except Christianity."

I did the research too, at least 50 hours in the past year researching and pursuing scholarships, and there are a lot of scholarship sources out there - for white kids as well as for others. I did see set-aside scholarships for various ethnicities, but I'd say (based on my own experience) there must be ten times as many scholarship options that do not stipulate anything about a student's race.

Maybe it's 'field' specific. We were looking in the 'culinary arts' field. Again, I did hours of research too....and this was MY experience. So I stand by my original comments too.

As far as the religious angle, there are scholarships for Lutherans, and Quakers, and Methodists, and so on. Wittenberg and Earlham are two examples of schools we checked out with religious affiliations who give a big break (up to $7000) to folks active in their denominations. We are atheists and not eligible for any of this, so count yourself fortunate here - at least you might have a chance at some church money.

We are Believers of Christ, and do not fall into a 'religion'. So we 'don't' qualify either.

I will say that I looked at sources for college money unaffiliated with particular colleges - such as Target, Coca-Cola, Gates Foundation and so on. This stuff is mostly what comes up in generalized web searches. I don't see these sources as scams, exactly, but my feeling is that they give out relatively few awards for the large number of applications they attract. We did not end up with any money from any of those. I think your best bet is to find schools that have good internal competitive scholarship programs, get accepted at these schools, and then pursue that internal funding.

Seriously, I wish you the best in finding something for your daughter.

Because she chose an 'Arts School' instead of a traditional college, this is why there was not as much money out there for her.
89,000.00 for a BA in Culinary Arts was a bit steep. She did a quarter, and I was willing to pay cash....work 3 job......whatever it took (she too), but the school was poorly organized and left a sour taste in her mouth. She will be going to a different school, that offers the same classes at half the price. Again, paying cash for her classes as long as we can........

[Scott SW Ohio]

Originally Posted by Laura Zone 5

Never said "only", here's what I said:
"We found that there were many many scholarships available for (specifically) Blacks and Latino's, GLBT, and people who profess any religion except Christianity."

I think we have reached the point of diminishing returns in this exchange, Laura. Have it your own way. But, do you see that you baited and switched on me regarding the statement above? Be honest. I was replying to your original statement: "Maybe because college is so dang expensive.....and if you are not a minority or live an alternative lifestyle, there is no 'free rides' out there for you?"

[WindowOrMirror]

ummmm, yes

by the by... let's identify WHY they are, and solve THAT!

[Laura Zone 10]

Originally Posted by Scott SW Ohio

I think we have reached the point of diminishing returns in this exchange, Laura. Have it your own way. But, do you see that you baited and switched on me regarding the statement above? Be honest. I was replying to your original statement: "Maybe because college is so dang expensive.....and if you are not a minority or live an alternative lifestyle, there is no 'free rides' out there for you?"

Still, missing the word "only".

And my grammar was poor. It should have read........there ARE no 'free rides'.

Is is plural, and ending a sentence in a prep. phrase is a no no!!
Yeah public education!!

Seriously. You know what I meant. You and I have researched. I shared my findings, you shared yours. You don't like mine, so you are trying to discredit what I am saying. I am glad you found money. I even went so far as to point out maybe because we were looking in different fields???
Yikes, relax.

[Scott SW Ohio]

Bless you Laura. Have a nice day.

[JJ Grandits]

Could it be that a college education does not have the same impact in ones life then it had years ago? I don't see a drop in the percentage of college graduates as being an indication of someone being stupid or lazy. Prove to me that someone with a BA in literature is smarter then my plumber. Would you buy a house that was built by a history professor instead of a carpenter? I associate with two people who ONLY have a high school education but they each started, own and manage multi million dollar businesses. Stupid and lazy people can't do that. Perhaps a college degree has lost some of it's relevance.

[where I want to]

I would imagine that illegal immigration does effect the stats depending on who is in the group of Americans. Most illegals, but not all, do not have substantial education. So including them, especially with the vagues estimates most use, would bring the average number of college degree holders down. If the influx of illegals is high in the last few years, that would skew the stats too- the next generation could be as college educated as anyother group- but not the immigrants themselves.
That's the trouble with these sort of "studies" or "stats." Can you imagine that the president of some College Board (what's that in the scheme of things anyway,) NOT finding that more people really need his services? Can you imagine his choosing catagories that reflect that his services are not needed?

[Aintlifegrand]

I am not sure college is worth it these days, however, each person must evaluate the cost/benefit

When I look at the future for the young kids graduating today, I am disheartened to think they have spent so much money..many in debt they will never be able to pay back and so little job prospects out there..the aging workforce will make this even more problematic.....I am thinking life skills might be more important. I used to think differently...I used to firmly believe everyone needed a college education.. now that I have seen alternatives to that I think differently.. I know a kid who has learned more life skills than most people I know..he knows construction..from block laying to framing to finish work.. he knows farming from caring for animals and what is cost effective and what is not ( the economics of farming) to crops... he can cook anything as good as most Chef's...he is self taught in that area... he is now learning how to preserve the food he grows and gathers.. this fall he tackles hunting/fishing for survival etc...It appears he is making this his "college"..all the while personally studying the liberal arts on his own.. like history/politics and courses like business and economics from an owner/farmer perspective rather than someone who works for someone...I am curious as to what he will do with all this but what I have learned by watching him is that conventional is not always the best or only way...

[PAcountry]

I have heard that so many kids go to college now and most kids feel it is a right that a bachelors is now undervalued because everyone can get that.
It takes a masters or above to make decent money on the return.

Back in the 70's I am told (to young for that) it was okay if your kid wanted to be a mechanic or a plumber or a city worker. Those were good solid careers.
When I went to school in the 90's nothing short of going to college was good enough. If you didn't go then you were a slacker had bad grades and would be a failure (teachers words not mine)

Not every kid should go to college and there is nothing wrong with finding a career without a collage degree.