Water Pressure Tank Rant
 

Just here to rant. I am in the middle of changing my water pressure tank. Whoever built the plumbing in my house didn't leave a way to disconnect the water pressure tank system on the house side. I am currently trying to pry off a valve so I don't have to cut any copper pipe, since I don't have the skills or tools to do that. Ughhhhh :hammer:

Now that I am done ranting, advice would be appreciated!

Everything went without a hitch at first. I drained the tank, disconnected the electric, and disconnected the left connector without a problem.

http://s17.postimg.org/i37fkx23j/DSCI0925.jpg

Because there is not a comparable connection on the right hand side, I am just trying to remove something that isn't welded on. The only piece that isn't is the shutoff valve prior to the water filter. I circled it in the image below

http://s27.postimg.org/67oveew1v/DSCI0927.jpg

Here is a closer look at it... I have tried putting all of my force into it to remove it with a pipe wrench and have only managed to make one 3/4 turn. I had an "assistant" sitting on top of it (150lbs) and the whole tank just kept sliding around when I tried to turn it. It's not bolted down because in order to fit it has to sit on a couple of 2x4s. I put PB Blaster on it to try and make it easier to turn, but it has absolutely zero impact. It's not welded, it just appears to be sealed with teflon tape.

http://s27.postimg.org/67oveew1v/DSCI0927.jpg

I'm trying to replace my small tank with this puppy:

http://s3.postimg.org/6pack3pkj/DSCI0928.jpg

I called a plumber more than a week ago and they never got back to me after speaking to me the first time, so I took it upon myself to learn this new skill. I'm currently failing horribly and would appreciate any and all of your sage wisdom!

Here is a picture of my baby sitting in a chair to make this thread a little bit happier:

http://s23.postimg.org/nwhzmc0aj/DSCI0899.jpg

She would really love it if daddy could get the water turned back on... :help:

Guess I'm blind , I don't see a circled shutoff valve . By the way if it has teflon tape it's probably threaded .

Sorry about that, I just realized that I circled it in super fine red pencil. Here is a better picture of it circled.

http://s30.postimg.org/qkdjv5475/DSCI0927.jpg

I assume the piece you turn to turn it on & off is hidden behind the pipe in the picture . I see the pipe above the valve has a coupling soldered in it . I bet the valve is threaded & doesn't pry apart .

Two pipe wrenches, each below the fitting that's copper soldered, at the top of your red circle. The one at the top won't turn as you know so work the wrenches against each other with both hands.
Also go ahead and unthread the 1/4 nipple that hold your pressure valve on and get that out of your way so you can turn the fittings without winding up your electrical wires.

When I get a mess like that I take my pipe cutter and cut the main pipe and start over using PVC and galvanized fittings

The coupling soldered in the line above your red circle makes me think nothing is going to turn and you'll have to cut the pipe and solder it back together when done.
There are compression fittings available so you do not need to have to solder the pipe back together. I do not use them or recommend them but there were a few in the plumbing of my house when I bought it that lasted until I replaced the piping.

If that valve threads apart I'd like to see a picture of it apart .

.............Instead of looking for a Plumber , place a listing for a handyman familiar with the plumbing of a water well on Angie's List ! Also , call or visit both Lowe's and Home Depot as they will surely have some names of contractors who can fix your problem ! , fordy

You could cut the copper pipe with a hacksaw , file or sand off the rough edges where you cut it & use a sharkbite coupling to put it back together . Wouldn't have to do any soldering . Google sharkbite fittings at home depot or lowes .

I feel like it doesn't. I put everything I had into it, and it only moved 3/4ths turn over about 5 minutes of cranking.

So, can I cut that valve out with a hack saw and then somehow put a new valve in? What happens if it doesn't fit perfectly in the space that is left over?

................Before , you cut anything , You need to purchase the correct replacement parts and understand how your......FIX.....is going to fit together ! Cutting , just to be cutting is just potentially creating more problems ! , fordy

I'm wondering if this how-to video is applicable to my situation:

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/vide...504017,00.html

On second thought, it probably isn't because directly under the valve is a really thick L joint.

So, in theory, could I cut that valve out completely and then unscrew the L joint below it? Then could I put in something much easier to undo in the future incase I ever have to go through this again, followed by the L joint and then some copper pipe and a valve? I'm completely inexperienced with plumbing, but I would really like to complete this job myself since I am four hours into it already. Is there anything special that I should take into account when doing a job like this?

After I went to bed, I realized I probably told you wrong. I think the original plumbing of that tank was all tightened from the tank on back to the copper line, the last fitting tightened and then soldered in place.
Without a union or some other way to turn one fitting loose without tightening the other more, you've got no choice but to cut something loose.
The copper line is easiest and those sharkbite fittings work, they aren't cheap, but nothing involving plumbing ever is.........:sob:

Not sure if this applies, but when I changed my tank, I only had to remove the hard rubber high pressure hose - and this could only be removed (and reattached) by using a torch to thoroughly heat it and soften it a bit - then the connection slipped off/on easily. Without the heat it was impossible.

Yes, you can use compression fittings.. BUT, over the years, they do tend to leak.. .

Go to youtube and look up copper pipe sweating... It's really simple, and all you need is a propane torch to do it as far as tools... a little solder and solder paste, or flux..

I'd just cut out that mess, and sweat in the new parts.. BUT, do like someone said first.. get the parts, then make your cuts after you've checked for fit to make sure you got enough pipe and connectors..

However you eventually get it all apart, make sure you put a "union" in line when you re-plumb back. Unions make life a lot easier when you need to change anything out in the future.

Cut the line above the valve. It should unscrew from the ell.
Once you put it all back together you can sweat a union in the line between the valve and the filter which will allow you to split the line easily next time you need to do any service.

For quick and easy you could get a compression fitting to fit the line, cut the line above the coupling that is there, and when done put the fitting there, tighten with a pair of wrenches and be done. The compression fitting will allow you to split the line again later like a union, but will require a bit more flex in the line to get apart.

It doesn't look like you need to cut the valve out, just unscrew it once you have the line above it cut.

Well, I cut the valve out and ran new plumbing.

It is dripping in multiple spots...

And the pressure tank isn't filling up...

We do have water, but I am disappointed in myself. I called a plumber, but they can't get here for two weeks. :facepalm:

For threaded pipe, use teflon tape.. for copper that needs sweating, make sure the fitting are clean and dry... Compression fittings.. get rid of them and sweat it...

I used teflon tape on some and a liquid sealer on the others. The ones I sealed with the liquid sealer are doing fine, while the teflon tape ones are leaking. Most likely because I wasn't 100% sure what to do with the tape.

The pressure tank still isn't filling with water like it is supposed to. Two weeks is a long time to wait!

Interestingly enough, although the tank is not filling with water, the water pressure inside of the house is fine and the pump is not kicking on. :frypan:

You wrap the teflon tape wide and flat around the threads, in the direction you tighten the joint.. put at least 5 or 6 wraps on it..

Is your switch working correctly? I looks a little old and worn out... It's a good time to replace it, when you're replacing the tank.

The above is a most unusual statement. If you have water pressure in the house something had to either held pressure from earlier prior to your disconnecting the bladder tank or you have a connection to a second source of water.

If the new tank is not filling with water look to see if the contacts in the pressure switch are closed. If they are closed then look to see the manner you reconnected the wiring. Of the 4 screws, counting left to right one motor wire should go to 1 and and one power wire to screw 2. Then the second motor wire to screw 3. and the second power wire to screw 4. Following this make certain that the power ground and the motor ground are connected to the single green screw. Now turn the breaker/switch on. The pump motor should run, if not look to see if the points in the pressure switch are closed.

You have not added air to the new tank have you? You have any valves that you may have closed also open at this time? Any chance that you have reversed any check valve that existed prior to the replumbing? Did you replace the existing pressure gauge? You will need a working pressure gauge to set the air pressure in the bladder to the cut-in pressure of the pressure switch. That cut-in setting for the bladder tank is to be 2 PSI below the cut-in pressure of the pressure switch when there is no water pressure on the system from the well pump. Example...if the pressure switch kicks on at 30 PSI then turn the power off to the pump and drain the water pressure and add or delete air from the schrader valve (tire valve) at the top of the bladder tank to a setting of 28 PSI. Turn the power back on to the well pump and all should be set.

Pay close attention to agmantoo's post and follow it methodically to trouble shoot.
One last thing, although the symptom's you describe are the opposite of what I've seen when the gauge is bad or plugged.
Check to make sure sediment didn't make it into that 1/4 nipple at the base of the gauge to give you a false reading.

I think I am just going to cut my losses on the $100 or so I spent for tools and supplies for this repair and just have a plumber do it all over again the right way. I have no idea how to solve the leaks in the joints and the way I put the system together I think the only way to fix them would be to tear it all out, buy another $50 worth of hardware, and start all over again. I used teflon tape on the threads, but it didn't prevent small drips from taking place. On other threads I used a sort of thick yellow glue. None of those threads are leaking. I feel foolish for trying to do this on my own with zero plumbing experience. I only wish that I could get a plumbing appointment sooner than 2 weeks from now :stars:

Thanks for the advice everyone.

The tank doesn't really fill up with water . There is an air bladder inside it that compresses as water enters the tank . If you have good pressure in the house & the pump isn't running sounds to me like it's working . Open that drain valve on the tank tee & close it when the pump kicks on . Now you have maximum water fill & pressure when the pump kicks off . Open the drain valve again & see how long it takes for the pump to kick back on . You do need a correctly working pressure gauge on the tee to correctly set the proper amount of air pressure in the tank .

I am fairly certain that I got the tank to work by increasing the pressure on the pressure switch a little bit. The pressure is good in the house now and the tank feels significantly heavier. I think it was set arbitrarily low due to the issues I was having with the previous tank; a plumber came and did that a few months ago. Now I am just stuck with some leaking joints that I don't feel equipped to deal with. I'm really not up for dismantling the system a second time.

Out of the size tank pictured you'll probably only get about 5 gallons of water between pump cycles . The tank won't feel as heavy as you might think because of the amount of space inside it that is filled with air .

Interesting. Even if it is a 32 gallon tank?

There won't be anywhere near 32 gallons of water between pump cycles . Hook a garden hose up to that drain valve & run it into a 5 gallon bucket or two . Let it run from the time the pump kicks off until it kicks back on again & see how much water you got . If I confused you what I meant was run the water till the pump kicks on then shut the drain until the pump kicks off . Now hook your hose & bucket up & catch the water till the pump kicks on again . 5 gallons was a bit of an understatement , 15 would probably be much closer if everything is adjusted properly . From the picture I was thinking it was a 20 gallon tank .

Look at the chart in this link . It shows gallons in one column & drawdown gallons in the next column . The gallons is the size of the tank & the drawdown gallons is how much water you get between pump cycles .

Pressure Tanks - Pumps by King Pumps - private

Went down to take another crack at it about a half hour ago...

50% of the joints I did were spraying water all over the place. Turned the whole system off and called an emergency plumbing service. I have an appointment at 8:00am tomorrow. I need to practice some plumbing techniques before I ever try something like this again.

God bless my wife for tolerating me :kiss:

The best way to tackle a plumbing job like this is REPLACE EVERYTHING...

You should cut back into good solid pipe and work from there. Trying to re-use old fittings is asking for leaks... You are taking things apart, that's time to replace it all...

Switches only last for so long... New tank, new switch.. also new valves... the rubber in valves get old and eventually leak.

Compression fittings never do hold when you try and take them apart, then put them back together after they've been together for years....

If you start with new parts, and take your time and pay attention to how tight your are screwing things together, how well you are sweating your joints, or how well you are priming and gluing your PVC, it should go without any problems...

I recently put in a new water treatment system. The only thing I left old, was the bladder tank, and only because it's only a couple years old... EVERYTHING else got replaced.. switch, valves, pipes, couplers... start from scratch.... It may not be the cheapest route, but in the long run, it's the best route..

I am a drip under pressure. I recently called in a pro to replace a pressure tank, gage, and switch at the ranch. I installed the first set and the years flew by. It cost but it was done in 2 hours. I was so happy. A pro is an option also. I know we all try to get by.

A friend reminds me often to buy new until I can afford used. I like starting from scratch too. Hope you and the water are restored soon.

LOL.. buy new until you can afford used.. I like that.. WAY too true or me usually...

Don't feel bad, of all the trades I've learned to do, plumbing still gives me fits.
If you call a pro out to the house, do yourself a favor and watch him work. That way you'll learn something that you're having to pat for anyway.
If I didn't learn it on the job, I learned it that way.
It cost me a grand to learn how to pull a well pump, but now I can do it for anyone.
Chances are, you're only a few steps away from having it right, so learn the little details that makes a pro look easy.

For less than a grand I could told you the pipe with the pump on it goes toward the sky :thumb: It is to far to go the other direction like trying to push a log chain .PVC pipe ,glue cleaner and a hacksaw has made plumbers out of a lot of people . I have over two five gallon buckets of PVC fittings in stock :D