Car work: Legit or not?
 

Tell me what you think!

Almost 5 weeks ago (1st wkend in Feb.) my daughters car breaks down while she coming home from college on a friday night. I spend $80 for wrecker service to have the car hualed a few miles away to basically the only Mechanic in my nearby area.

Mechanic tells me it's probably the timing chain and will cost about $800 - 900 dollars, to maybe $1200 most, depending on what's wrong with it. I tell him I don't have that kind of money right now but if he can wait till I get my tax refund I can pay him then. I tell him to go ahead and fix it and I'll pay him as soon as I get it. He says "Okay".

2 weeks later I get my tax refund and call him and he says he hasn't started on yet as he's been swamped and as soon as he gets this truck out that he's working on, he'll get on it.

Another week goes by and I call him and ask if it's ready. "No, this vehicle I'm working on right now is killing me on time, but just as soon as I pull this one out, yours will be coming right in.

Another week goes by and basically the same story.

At this point I'm starting to get frustrated. So I start calling him every two days. Same thing, "man I'm just having a hardtime getting Yada, Yada, Yada,.....,. and so on".

Finally yesterday eveing he calls me and says. "Hey, I finally got your car in, but I'll need to get some money from you so I can go buy parts". I ask him how much and he says right about $400 for a timing chain kit. So I write him a check and he says I'll break it down this evening and tomorrow morning I'll get the kit and should have the car back to you tomorrow evening. I thought to myself, "Wow, you'll have it fixed that fast once you start on it, that's fast".

That was yesterday. Well this evening he calls and says he got the new timing chain kit installed but the car still has problems. He says the engine is only hitting on about 2 cylinders, which means when the timing chain broke it messed up the push rods and he'll have to pull the head off and replace the push rods and valves. I ask well "how much more is this going to run me". He says "Well right now you owe me another $488 dollars for labor on the timing chain installment and to do a head job will cost you about another $600-700 dollars".

Okay now I am getting really, really, frustrated because of the amount of time he has taken and money to pay for something that isn't running yet. Plus he wants another $700. So I want to know from all you out there that has had experience with engine problems of this nature. Is the mechanic talking legit, or is he husslelling me for more money? Does a timing chain kit really cost this much, can a mechanic teardown and install a timing chain kit this fast?

Car is a 4 cylinder, Dodge Alero. 2002 model.

Well my daughter may have answered some of my questions. She dug around on the internet and says timing chain kit runs about $150 plus or minus. Labor should be about 4.1 hrs.

So with that he is overcharging me on the kit. I don't know what his labor charge is but maybe I can find out. I'm going to call a few autoparts stores in the morning and see what they're prices are. If they quote prices as low as what daughter finds on the internet, I'm going to take the overcharge out of the labor and then I'm going to call wrecker service and haul the car to my house.

i'm not familiar with that particular engine, but may very be of "interference" design. If that's the case, lots of stuff on the top end get in a fight with each other when a timing belt or chain finally breaks.Sometimes you luck out, and sometimes it's pretty catastrophic.

First week would have been more than time to find another mechanic.
The entire car isn't likely worth what he wants you to spend on it.
He's stringing you along because 1) he can't believe you haven't found somebody else long ago and 2) he can't believe you're actually willing to consider spending that much money to have a car that, when repaired, will still be worth less than you just spend on it and that you could replace cheaper than fix

A mechanic that can only work on one vehicle for what sounds like weeks at a time isn't worth going back to.

An Alero is an Oldsmobile . Rock Auto has the timing kit for $155.00 . If it's costing you $888 .00 for the timing job , I'd get my car away from him .

Dale I agree with you. WV your right, I knew it was a Olds. I don't know why I said Dodge.

Well I've been digging around on the internet and the most expensive timing set I could find was $174. So tomorrow morning I'm going to hit him up about it and if I can't drive it home (3.25 miles) then I'll call a wrecker. $1600 + isn't worth what the car is valued at. Not to mention spending $80 X 2 wrecker service, plus $150 for tax refund service when I could have waited and got the tax service for free through Community Action services.

I'm not familiar with that engine. But there are things that bug me about these types of things.

I've done numerous timing belt jobs. The last I did was on a Toyota Sienna minivan. The dealer wanted to put in a new timing belt for me for maybe $300. Ummm.... just the PARTS to do the job right (belt, tensioner, idlers, water pump, gaskets, etc.) cost something over $400. I don't want just to have a belt slapped on and hope for the best. I want the job done right, which is why I did it myself.

I know that some engines are interference engines and some are not. The ones that are not don't typically have an issue with a belt or chain breaking. But the ones that are interference engines can easily have damage to the valve train and pistons when a belt or chain breaks. It's not something to postpone in the maintenance schedule if you value your engine.

Good luck getting it fixed. Having someone who really knows the particular engine could be very helpful. General mechanics are great for general repairs. Getting into the finer details of specific work, though, is best left to those familiar with it.

I was also very particular about who I'd let work on my VW diesel engines, too. Same thing. Lots of mechanics that knew just enough to get themselves into trouble or to do a half------ed job. No thanks. I want it done right, even if that means I have to buy some tools and do it myself. (I did, and I did.)

the alero is a interference engine. The valves are bent and it will need a valve job. or a new head.

Sorry to hear what you stumbled into - the mechanic you describe sounds like bad news. Also, sorry about your car. Unfortunately this is an interference engine - when the belt or chain breaks, the valves often get bent. How do I know? I paid $1500 to learn that lesson. At any rate, sounds like it could be as much as a $2000 job - see http://www.oldsmobileforums.com/foru...ad.php?t=12257

You are fixing it yourself? You probably will have to do a valve job, which is quite a big repair. Even my mechanic had to have some of the work done outside his shop (grinding the valve seats I believe). I still have my old bent up valves, kind of as a sickly reminder to never let a timing belt break again.

Talked to him today. He's either a smooth talker or he is talking legit. He was explainning more to me today and I talked to another mechanic who said pretty much the same thing. So it's going to involve haveing to remove the head and he sends it off to have it rebuilt just like MichealZ mentioned above. If I go with it, it's going to cost me another $1700. to fix. So that's going to be $1700 plus $888. for what he's already done. That's almost $2600 to get this car running again! :bash:

But what can I do? I can go out and buy my daughter another cheap car and it's probably going to cost me $3000, to $4500 to get something decent and dependable. So $2600 might be the best way to go, as much as I hate to say it!

Years ago I had a wonderful old Crown Vic wagon that eventually wore out the teeth on the timing gears. Timing jumped, messed the engine up real bad. Now I pay very close attention to when things related to timing are scheduled to be replaced. Hate to agree with a couple others on here but I would think the engine needs major work. In most cases you really can't just slap a new belt on and drive off.

Yes, the top end probably needs a rebuild to fix it right. IMO, it doesn't make any sense to dig that deep into one without rebuilding the top end, replacing plugs, water pumps, and all the crap that's difficult to get to (on some engines). As has already been pointed out, the machining for the head will probably have to be done in a different shop. After all that, you're pretty deep into some $ for a twelve-year-old vehicle that was, frankly, a piece of poo before it got drove off the lot.
You could search the salvage yards for a running engine, but the swap will be costly, too.
I would consider scrapping that Olds and putting the money towards a different vehicle. You could part it out for more on e-bay or whatever if you're handy with a wrench and a keyboard. Next time, don't get an Olds.

My 2003 Kia cost me a little over $1500 - it was a year ago and I think I can get another year or two out of it (or sell it now for maybe $800) so it was worth it for me. But I think I would have scrapped it had it gone much over $2K. You can get a fairly decent older car for a little over $2000 that is running - maybe a bit rusty, but running. Another thing about the valve job I had done - my car does not seem to have quite the power it had before - I notice this when going up hills. Still runs OK though, just have to downshift.

These car issues can really be a bummer! Had a quote for $400 to fix a lousy leak in my 1999 Suburban power steering gear box just a few days ago. I declined on the repair - I can get a used part for $50 and a local shade tree guy would probably put it in for another $50. Last summer I passed up on two repairs and saved nearly $800 - in one case the power steering leak in my Kia stopped on its own and in the other case I fixed the ABS problem in my Chev Suburban at no cost with a simple recommendation from a friend. You have to be wise as a serpent these days with cars or they will clean you out.

Is there any chance you could find a used head out of a junk yard?

If you do scrap it, can you tow it home with a tractor or truck?

If it still has the original cat converter, it should be worth $50, the battery $10, and car scrap steel was $280 a ton, the last I heard. Aluminum rims are .50 a pound; most rims weigh 11 pounds. If you ebay, I would guess that the tail lenses and headlights are worth $25+ each.

I would be really, really inclined to look for a used head out of a wreck car.

Or how about a rebuilt head?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOORES-GMC68...1a0a12&vxp=mtr

I know it's shocking but a shop makes money on parts plus parts found on rockauto or wherever are not always of the best quality. Not defending this guy but of course you can go online and get parts cheaper...you always can get it cheaper online.

Theres a 2003 Alero on Tulsa craigslist for $1500

When the pistons hit the valves, they can be damaged, also, as can the cylinder walls. Rods could be stressed also.

I'd be careful about pouring a large amount of money, in what could be a engine grenade, maybe sooner than later.

When you buy parts over the counter you receive an automatic 35% off LIST price. The local mechanic who spends a few thousand a week at the same store gets a larger discount. He then turns around and charges list of list + 10% to the end customer

How many miles are on the '02 Alero that you own???

Well I'm not sure what engine they used in the alero. But if its a 2.2 design in the cobalts it could have been ignition all along.
Go to the shop have him prove to you with a compression test that there is head problems. Compression should be with in 10-15% between each cylinder. With GM vehicles if the ignition module goes bad. They will miss on half the cylinders. Our cobalt did that. Then ask to see the invoice for the parts. Go armed with prices from local suppliers for the timing set.
Bob

I am thinking this is what might have happened in my case. I got new valves and valve seats. And actually the engine ran a little quieter than before. But the power is down and oil consumption up - probably some damage to the pistons or cylinders. I don't think I would want to load up my KIA now with 5 adults and drive it up a long steep mountain or hill - it might not make it! But for my commuting it is still fine. I guess I was fortunate to get by with a $1500 repair. At that price, even 2 years of use almost makes it worth it.

I would recommend not putting any more money in that car.

Too many miles, and too old for that type of damage.

I'm with the not to fix it crowd. Buy another cheap car with lower miles that is clean & fix what is needed. Or if you want to keep it & it is clean & in good shape overall then get an ENGINE from a wrecking yard complete running & install it. Reputable wrecking yards will know the mileage & condition of engine. Those that sell used engines as a rule start them & run them before pulling them & shelving them. They will have a crossover chart to tell you what other cars those engines came in if they did. Then just bolt all your computer stuff up & go.