Bought Used Truck, Got Scammed
 

So, I drove to New York on Wednesday night and bought a used truck. I had a 2011 RAM 1500, but I sold it in August because I didn't like making large payments on a second vehicle. I bought a 2002 RAM 1500 for $7,500. The truck seemed to be in great condition. There is no visible rust on it, no stains or wear marks on the upholstery, and it runs great. I did the five hour drive back from New York and felt happy and satisfied the whole way home. Then I took it to get it inspected and that all changed.

It turns out that the truck has all of the following problems, and I am quoting from the inspection report:

• Needs both front outer tie rod ends
• Needs right front wheel bearing
• Needs left inner tie rod end
• Frame is badly rusted on left side behind cab and in front of gas tank

I haven't been able to get it in to anywhere to get it looked at, because the inspection station said that they don't do the kind of work that it needs and no one is open on the weekend. The thing that concerns me most is the rusted frame. The rust hole is about six inches long and an inch wide. It is on one of the rails that go across the whole vehicle from front to back down the middle. Does anyone have experience with this type of issue?

I am beating myself up over it. I bought the car without having a mechanic look at it because it passed New York state inspection a month ago. I called the shop that inspected it (I was given all of the maintenance records for the truck from the time that it was brand new until present) and the owner wasn't there, so they told me to call back on Monday. I called the guy who sold me the truck and tried to talk to him about it, but he denied all knowledge of any of the issues and kept repeating that it was inspected a month ago and came back with no issues at all. I have no idea how much the repairs are going to cost me, but I bet it is going to be thousands of dollars.

The seller did not mention anything about the condition of the vehicle in the bill of sale, and on his craigslist ad he specifically said "you will not find a better truck period," which I think constitutes a guarantee as to the condition of the truck. For that reason, I am strongly considering lawyering up and trying to sue him over it. The only thing that could prevent me from doing that would be if it turned out that these are minor issues and that I am blowing them out of proportion, but I don't think that is going to happen.

Any thoughts, advice, or even a pat on the back would be welcome. :bash:

I hate to say this, but I wouldn't say you were scammed... I'd say you should have had it inspected if you didn't know what to look at... When buying anything used, it's buyer beware...

The seller may not have known it had problems. Especially if it was a used dealer...

When I buy a vehicle I crawl all over the thing. I grab everything I can and shake, pull push and even hammer on it with my fist.. I take a knife and poke at places on the frame or body if there's any rust... I've walked away from quite a few vehicles because they had similar problems you describe.

When you buy used, you never know what you're inheriting, so you really have to be careful and look closely

As far as the repairs, having tie rod ends replaces aren't going to run you that much... The rust on the fram is another game though... how bad is it? is it through the metal, or just surface rust?

When buying a used vehicle there is no such thing as guarantee, unless you buy a warranty, and even then, those are weak. They also do not have to have to tell you about any problems they know about.. It really is buyer beware. A lawyer is going to tell you the same thing and probably won't even consider taking your money...

You MAY have an issue with the shop that inspected it in NY. Otherwise I think you're SOL. $7,500 for an 02 is overpriced to begin with, to drop that based on cosmetics is crazy. Who drove it home from NY? None of the above is hugely expensive except possibly the frame but should have been at least somewhat noticeable on a longer drive.

Fair enough. I realize that I made a huge mistake here and that it is ultimately my fault for buying the vehicle. I bought it private party from someone's front yard, not a dealer of any kind. I checked for absolutely everything other than structural issues. I wrongly assumed that a truck that was inspected a month ago wouldn't be riddled with structural issues. After all, these aren't the type of issues that develop in a month, right? Now I'm just trying to figure out what to do about it.

I drove it home. It wasn't noticable at all to be honest with you. Even now, driving it to and from the shop, it drives perfectly fine. In fact, one of my first impressions was that it seems to drive better than my 2011 did. $7,500 is its KBB value, and I didn't even get to count all of the extras that it has because KBB doesn't calculate the added value of a cap, etc.

You can never rely on an inspection sticker.. there are many shops out there that will look the other way for a friend or a few dollars... I'd get it fixed and move on. The problems you are talking about are common wear items. We recently had some of what you described replaced on our car. We are the original owners, and at 100K you just have to take care of those things...

My fear is that a rusty hole in the frame is an indicator that the truck isn't long for this world. I don't mind putting the work into it, because it is a really nice truck, but I don't want to put all of this work into it only to have it rust into oblivion a year down the road. You know what I mean?

Trust me though, I realize that I made an epic mistake. It was an important learning experience about trust and assumptions.

I just replaced ball joints on my truck, almost 300,000 miles and 13 years old.
Just the cost of owning one, no big deal a few hundred dollars. Tie rods shouldn't be that expensive either. If you didn't notice anything in the front end driving it, and there isn't an unusual wear pattern on the front tires, chances are it ain't that bad, fix it when you have the time and money.
If the frame is rusted bad, then see a welder about building it back up, if not, let it go.
I have to say I agree with the comment that you paid too much to begin with, so I wouldn't dwell on this little problem now.

All of what you state is perfectly normal wear on that age truck. And it would not be noticeable to either you or the seller. The only thing here is that you maybe could have gotten it for a thousand less if you had taken it in for inspection before buying. Everything but the rust could be fixed in a shop for under $1000 total I think.

By us, a truck of that age with that little rust would be unheard of! I can speak from experience, rust will not affect run-ability. EDIT: I see it is frame rust - you will want that repaired. I can not see it being that severe if the rest of the truck is in good shape. Vehicles by us can get so rusted in body and frame that they are no longer safe, but generally that type of vehicle is nothing but a rusted out shell.

I think I paid too much in light of the problems it has, but if the truck was in excellent condition is KBBed at $8,200 private party value. It is a 2002 Quad Cab Dodge Ram SLT with a 5.9L engine, running boards, a matching cap, 4x4, remote start, leather, and every additional feature that was available in 2002. I wish I had thought to look for frame rust before I bought the vehicle.

Mind if I ask how much it cost you to replace the ball joints?

Can you get a picture of the rust? I'm sure it's fixable Even if you need to weld in a new piece of metal... I've repaired rusted frames before. Not really much to it so long as it's not bent....

Also, when buying a vehicle, check the NADA value too.. it is usually a lot different than KBB... Most banks use NADA for value over KBB.

Yah, the only problem is that I live in a state that has mandatory annual inspections. I can't legally drive this truck until I fix all of these problems. I am currently on a 10 day grace period because it failed inspection, but after that 10 days I can't use it again until it is fixed. There is a hefty fine if I get pulled over without an inspection sticker on it. I can afford to put a couple thousand into it, I just hope that it doesn't rust out completely a year from now.

Sure. I will try to get a picture of it. Give me about a half an hour. I am going to have to climb underneath it and my driveway has about 1/2 an inch of ice on it.

I'm not sure what's involved pulling the bed off that truck. I can pull the one on my Chevy in less than an hour. Pull the bed, get some rust reformer and go to work. Check to see if the hole is simply one that existed before and is just enlarged. Light truck frames aren't high strength steel so welding a reinforcing plate on isn't a big issue if necessary.

Pulling the bed makes repairs easy and allows you to easily check the frame.

How much do you trust the inspection garage? On second thought, if the front AND back tires are worn uniformly, I'd take the truck to someone else for a another look. Make sure the front tires weren't rotated to the back. Is there a chance the shop is trying to jam you up and make some quick money?

Figure a couple 3 hundred for the ball joints and alignment... Maybe another two hundred for the bearing with labor.. the rust is a different game.. need to see what it looks like first.

In PA, inspection stations (garages) frown heavily on welding to the frame. You will probably have to box out the section of the frame.

Matt

Yep.. most places don't like it, but a good welder can make it look like nothing was done other than some paint added..

to me the clue that you overlooked is
The seller did not mention anything about the condition of the vehicle in the bill of sale, and on his craigslist ad he specifically said "you will not find a better truck period," which I think constitutes a guarantee as to the condition of the truck.

Didn't someone just say something similar about something they were selling.
I am sorry for your troubles but it may not be as bad as you think.

Keep in mind that prices vary based on location, OEM vs aftermarket, etc, but here we go:

Tie rod ends (2 outers and 1 inner): $120
Wheel hub bearing: $100
Labor to install above: ~$200
Front end alignment: $100

I can't do body/metal work, so you'll need to look to others for that. If you did your own labor to install the tie rod ends and wheel bearing hub assembly, I could do mine in a day...figure a weekend and lots of YouTube if you've not done them before to any vehicle. If you're not mechanically inclined, do NOT do the wheel bearing...you'll be having the mechanic make a house call :P

Totally not helpful to the subject being addressed, but wow! I can't believe the inspection stuff you all have to go through back there! Here, that truck with only the issues listed would be a smokin' deal and could be fixed as and when/if you wanted.

Ball joints was $350.00 I think $250 of that was parts.
My mechanic is good, fast and I can make payments, so it was worth it to me not to cuss all weekend, lol.

Frame rust is a serious issue . I know someone who bought a nice looking truck & later found frame rust . He continued driving it until it broke on him going down the road . I would take it to a competent welding shop & get the lowdown on whether or not it's something that can be reasonably repaired .
If the rust issues can be taken care of I wouldn't consider the other repairs a major deal to have repaired .

Isn't you state motto something like live free or die? Michigan is pretty screwed up but at least we don't have anyone telling us we can't weld a frame. It's really no big deal to patch a frame and make it stronger than new. I've done plenty of them when I was building mud trucks.

Yah, "Live Free or Die" is our state motto. Over the years, it has become less and less integral to how our state is run. I have absolutely no use for vehicle inspections, but I still have to get them done.

We have state vehicle inspections here in WV . I see it as a good thing if properly done . Problem is too many inspection stations pass unsafe vehicles that never should have passed .
A properly inspected vehicle will not have worn out brakes , worn out steering components , rusted out frames , etc .

If you drove it for 5 hr and did not find any of the steering funny, and did not have to herd it down the road, (you will understand if you driven trucks/cars with really wore out suspension and steering boxes),

I would get the wheel bearing repacked and tightened, (many times IMO a DIY your self job), jack up the axel and get the wheel off the ground and see how wore out he tie rod ends are, if the bearing is good (regreased and properly tightened) you could try a different inspection station and see if it passes, if you think the tie rod ends are bad that is not a hard job normally one may need a few tools tho, I have seen some shop claim things were wore out and needed replaced for a job, and then I have seen some shops that would have let the end fall off, and not fixed it, like I said jack up the axel and leave the tires off the ground and turn the wheels with hands at the 3 and 9 position and one can then have a helper, or vise versa one can put you finger on the ball joints in question and feel how much movement there is, normally you will have the two out side ones and one on the pitman arm, (steering box) if there worn replace or grease, it may take some of the play out,

I would not say you got scammed you bought a used truck,

I do not know what the statement is today but a number of years ago,

it was said 10 to 20 years ago, plan on spending at least $600 to $1000, to bring most used cars/trucks up to your desired state of repair,

all most with out fail they will need some thing, either general maintance, (as your needs) to new tires, brakes, hoses, belts, battery, starter, alternator, and so on, many times it is a problem that is a sensor or other that has plagued the truck/carl for years,

Used mains it was used, and using some wears it, I would say if that is all it needs is a few tie rod ends, and wheel bearing adjusted, and greased, (I would do the other side while I was doing it), I would say you got a good used truck,

as far as rust, (since I have no idea on what that means), to a discoloration, to rotted out, that may be where a little more may be needed, but then it may not be much of a issue either, or it may need a rebuild, in that area,

enjoy your new/used truck

A friend bought a Dodge pickup that had a more severe frame rust problem. He found a donor for the frame. Not sure if he fixed his yet.

So after this, it looks like tonight I'm checking the front wheel bearing on my Ram 1500 tonight... I think it went out Saturday.

I had been hearing a squeak, but I thought it was the squealer on the brake.. Saturday I hear a sudden loud grinding like gear teeth being broken off, but the tranny seemed fine and not slipping or missing a beat.. I think I heard the cage come apart in the bearing. When turning the wheel it feels kinda strange..

On these, you can replace the bearings, if you have a press to do it, but for what you can buy the whole hub for, you're better off to replace the complete hub assembly.

Are you sure which inspection place is wrong? If all that front end work needs to be done, you should be able to feel it.

Find out first before you start worrying. Take it to a autobody shop and have them look and get an estimate for the frame. The rest are all wear parts. Go from there and come back and let us know and get advice, so we all can be informed consumers....James

Scammed?....only in the sense that you bought a Dogde. They are notoriously weak in the front end. For a few hundred, you can probably get the parts, rent the tools, and knock the job off yourself.
....then sell that dungpile and get a Chevy.

So instead of a weak front end, you get issues like weak fuel pump that needs replacing once you're left on the side of the road... If not the pump, then it's the fuel pressure regulator... Um.. door handles that could be better... The water pumps are kinda weak too... leaking door seals.. Many have cold start piston slap.... Chevy's also rattle more than Dodge after a while..

All brands have their issues...

Ford has had the # 1 best selling truck for 37 straight years . That should tell you something . Dodge's are infamous for wearing out front end parts & frame rust & on a quiet night you can hear a Chevy rusting . That being said I have 2 Nissan 4X4's & they both have been great so far .

My truck is currently at a body shop. They were supposed to look at it today but they got backed up. I should know tomorrow what the situation is. I was unable to get underneath it and get a picture of the rust spot due to all of the ice on my driveway. I'm hoping it's going to be a moderate fix.

I drove it to the body shop before work this morning and I tried to notice any front end issues. It drives really well and I really couldn't notice anything at all. I would wager that it drives better than the 2011 Ram 1500 that I sold in August, which is saying a lot because that was an incredibly nice truck.

I'll update again with what it cost and how the situation turns out in a couple of days, just for general info.

Well wasn't it so fantastic this thread came up to make ME do all this to my truck now... DANG IT....

I just got back from buying the hubs... To the OP, Oh man are you in for an expensive endeavor if you can't do the work yourself..

I got home from work to check the noise I heard this weekend.. both front hubs are bad.. I can bump the left side a good 1/2". The right side is just starting to go and has a small bump in it.

The hubs ran me $490... Yes, I can buy cheap hubs, but you also have to drill and tap a hole on those to mount your old ABS sensor... and how long is that cheap hub going to last you? I ain't doing this again so bought quality parts.

I also need to get the lower ball joints and wouldn't you know the kind I have are the ones that are riveted to the lower control arm.... The parts store doesn't have the kits that you grind out the rivets and bolt them in, and they don' have the whole lower control arm assemblies... SO.. of I go to find some to order and have over nighted.

Guess I take off work Friday and start early... We plan to take the truck to WV this weekend.

When it rains....

Ouch! I hope you get it fixed in time for your trip.

There's very little chance that I will be able to do the work myself, so I am going to be stuck sinking lots of money into the truck. Hopefully after all of the work it will remain structurally sound for 4 or 5 years so that it isn't all a waste.

Can you order the ball joints that bolt in after you remove the factory rivets or do you have to buy the whole assembly ?

I'm actually considering getting the frame fixed and then taking it to a different shop for another inspection. I took it to a major chain, so I wonder if they are just being nitpicky. I just don't want to waste another $40 for them to just tell me the exact same things. I'm asked the body shop take a look at the issues listed on the inspection report and they told me that they would, so maybe I will do that if they come back with a different answer than the chain store.

Most manufacturers use 'lubed 4 life' sealed wheel bearings now. Can't re-pack and tighten any longer. When they fail, you can take out the brake caliper and rotor real quick and heat up the outer CV joint so you need a bunch of parts in addition to the wheel bearing.

I just went out and looked at it again... They are pressed in.. they press into the mount that is riveted to the end of the lower control arm..

NOT gonna be fun with all the rust on them.. plus I'm going to have to get a press kit to do it.. another $75 or so..