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  #151  
Old 04/09/12, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Gailann Schrader View Post
...underwriting means paying the wages and such of DNR personnel to come out and kill your law-abiding animals...


I'm not sure where else declares that they can come out and kill your properly fenced, properly cared-for animals. I don't care what species - dog, hog, horse, cat, whatever... Seems pretty knotheaded to me...

And invasive. To twist the declaratory statement...
In the published Grand Rapids Newspaper article, the DNR stated that they do not expect to kill any one's hogs, they expected the Hunt Clubs and Wild Hog breeding farms to eradicate them on their own.

There was a case a few years back where a guy was raising deer (200 on 120 acres) for Hunt Club hunts. He refused MDA TB testing for 12 years. One "hunter" discovered TB in a deer he shot. So, several deer were tested for TB, found positive. Sharpshooters shot 200 deer and the owner was paid over $100,000 for his deer.

From that, I know that this guy will be compensated for his Eurasian Boar and the half breeds he has refused to sell or shoot.
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  #152  
Old 04/10/12, 08:36 PM
 
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If you watch to Mark Baker's videos, he indicates that he raises his pigs for specialty restaurants and people who want a different kind of pork than the homogenous feedlot pork available in every chain supermarket. He also compares the number of deer (which number over a million) shot last hunting season-meaning there were a lot of hunters doing a lot of hunting in Michigan and the number of feral pigs shot while all of this hunting was going on which was about 45. So if there were only 45 feral pigs taken, how has this become such a huge issue if it isn't simply big ag wanting to cut alternative breeds out of the market?

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  #153  
Old 04/11/12, 07:49 AM
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April 10, 2012

Contact: Ed Golder, 517-335-3014

Michigan Department of Natural Resources files suit against hunting ranch


On Tuesday, April 10, 2012, the Michigan Department of Natural Resources filed a civil complaint against Ronald McKendrick and Charlene McKendrick, who own and operate the Renegade Ranch Hunting Preserve in Cheboygan County. The McKendricks are being sued for violations of Michigan’s Invasive Species Act, which outlaws certain types of swine.

The complaint, brought in Cheboygan County Circuit Court, asks the court to require the McKendricks to comply with the state’s Invasive Species Act and to remove prohibited swine from their property.

The court action is part of the DNR’s enforcement of a December 2010 Invasive Species Order that declares certain types of swine illegal. The order addresses the significant threat posed by invasive swine to agriculture and the environment in Michigan. The prohibited animals carry diseases that can devastate domestic livestock. Also, the swine engage in behaviors – rooting and wallowing – that damage soils, crops and waters.

The Invasive Species Order applies to wild boar, wild hog, wild swine, feral pig, feral hog, feral swine, Old world swine, razorback, eurasian wild boar, Russian wild boar (Sus scrofa Linnaeus). The order does not apply to domestic swine, Sus domestica, in domestic hog production. A December 2011 declaratory ruling from the DNR defines the physical characteristics used to identify prohibited swine.

The Invasive Species Order went into effect Oct. 8, 2011. However, to give those in possession of prohibited swine every opportunity to come into compliance with the law, the DNR delayed enforcement of the order for an additional six months, until April 1, 2012. Last year, the DNR contacted people believed to have prohibited swine to inform them about the timeline for enforcement.

Those facilities, farms or individuals still in possession of prohibited swine are in violation of the law and could face criminal or civil penalties under Part 413 of the state’s Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Act. Part 413, a section titled “Transgenic and Non-Native Organisms,” is commonly known as the Invasive Species Act.

“In implementing this order for the protection of Michigan’s environment and economy, the department has sought to work cooperatively with property owners wherever it can,” said DNR Director Rodney Stokes. “For that reason, enforcement actions thus far have involved voluntary compliance inspections. Where prohibited swine continue to be held, property owners must come into compliance with the law.”

Pursuant to enforcement of the Invasive Species Order, DNR officials on April 3, 2012, visited the Renegade Ranch. The ranch has in the past been known to possess swine that are prohibited under the order. DNR officials asked permission to inspect the facility for prohibited animals. Ronald McKendrick denied the DNR access.

In conjunction with the visit, DNR officials received information to suggest there are prohibited swine on the McKendricks’ property.

The complaint against the McKendricks seeks court-imposed fines for possession of a prohibited species and the sale or offering for sale of a prohibited species. The complaint asks the court to compel the McKendricks to depopulate remaining prohibited swine. In addition, the complaint seeks recovery of costs to the state for preventing or minimizing damages to natural resources caused by the prohibited species. Civil fines for violating the cited sections of the Invasive Species Act range from $1,000 to $20,000 per violation.

More information about the Invasive Species Order and the problem of invasive swine in Michigan and across the country can be found at DNR Feral Swine Redirect.

The Michigan Department of Natural Resources is committed to the conservation, protection, management, use and enjoyment of the state's natural and cultural resources for current and future generations. For more information, go to DNR - Department of Natural Resources.

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  #154  
Old 04/11/12, 07:59 AM
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This is an email I got from the ALBC

Thanks for your concern and for thinking of ALBC. We have been
corresponding with ALBC members in Michigan about this troubling regulation.
We have also contacted the Department of Natural Resources in Michigan and
offered our expertise in identifying and defining the differences between
domestic and feral livestock.
In Michigan, as you are aware, it has sparked several lawsuits, a great deal
of media attention, and letters from legislators to the DNR on behalf of
their farming constituents.

We have been informed that you can email DNR, describe their farm operation
& pigs, and request an exemption from the regulation. Emails should be sent
to Shannon Hanna: Hannas@michigan.gov.

Thanks again for your concern and feel free to write back any time.

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  #155  
Old 04/11/12, 08:18 AM
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April 4, 2012

Contact: Ed Golder, 517-335-3014


State enters next phase in protecting environment, farms from invasive swine

On Sunday, April 1, the Michigan Department of Natural Resources began active enforcement of an Invasive Species Order declaring certain types of swine illegal in Michigan.

As part of that effort on Tuesday, April 3 the department’s Law Enforcement Division conducted inspections of six properties that in the past may have had prohibited swine. The inspections were conducted with permission of the landowners. Each of the properties was found to be free of prohibited swine and therefore in compliance with the Invasive Species Order.

Those facilities, farms or individuals still in possession of prohibited swine are in violation of the law and could face criminal or civil penalties under Part 413 of the state’s Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Act.

“Our intent from the beginning of this Invasive Species Order has been to enforce the law while minimizing the impact on individuals and livelihoods,” said Department of Natural Resources Director Rodney Stokes. “For that reason, we provided additional time and assistance for ranch owners, breeders and others to remove prohibited animals from their properties prior to the April 1 enforcement deadline. The additional time allowed property owners to adjust their business plans to minimize economic hardship. We will continue to work cooperatively with property owners where we can.”

Sus scrofa Linnaeus, the scientific name for the prohibited animals, can pose a significant threat to the environment and to domestic pork production. The animals have been known to carry several diseases and parasites, including hog cholera (classic swine fever), pseudorabies, brucellosis, tuberculosis, salmonellosis, anthrax, ticks, fleas, lice and various worms. When released into the wild, the animals are highly mobile, making it easy for them to spread disease quickly in Michigan's wildlife and domestic livestock populations. One sow can produce two litters of four to six piglets in a year’s time, increasing the threat.

The swine engage in two types of behavior that damage soils, crops and water -- rooting and wallowing. Their rooting behavior, during which they dig for food below the soil surface, causes erosion, damages lawns and farm lands, and weakens plants and native vegetation. Wallowing behavior, during which swine seek out areas of shallow water to roll in mud, increases turbidity in ponds and streams and increases erosion along stream banks, which affects water quality.

The DNR in December 2010 issued an Invasive Species Order outlawing certain types of swine in Michigan. The order went into effect Oct. 8, 2011. In order to give those in possession of prohibited swine every opportunity to come into compliance with the law, Director Stokes delayed enforcement of the order for an additional six months, until April 1, 2012.

In the absence any other regulations for the swine, the DNR is moving ahead with the next phase of implementation of the Invasive Species Order. A declaratory ruling from the DNR, issued Dec. 13, 2011, lists the specific physical characteristics the DNR will use to determine if particular swine are prohibited. Those characteristics are:

Bristle-tip coloration: Sus scrofa exhibit bristle tips that are lighter in color (e.g., white,
cream, or buff) than the rest of the hair shaft. This expression is most frequently
observed across the dorsal portion and sides of the snout/face, and on the back and
sides of the animal’s body.

Dark “point” coloration: Sus scrofa exhibit “points” (i.e., distal portions of the snout,
ears, legs, and tail) that are dark brown to black in coloration, and lack light-colored tips
on the bristles.

Coat coloration: Sus scrofa exhibit a number of coat coloration patterns. Patterns most
frequently observed among wild/feral/hybrid types are: wild/grizzled; solid black; solid
red/brown; black and white spotted; black and red/brown spotted.

Underfur: Sus scrofa exhibit the presence of underfur that is lighter in color (e.g.,
smoke gray to brown) than the overlying dark brown to black bristles/guard hairs.

Juvenile coat pattern: Juvenile Sus scrofa exhibit striped coat patterns. This consists of
a light grayish-tan to brown base coat, with a dark brown to black spinal stripe and three
to four brown irregular longitudinal stripes with dark margins along the length of the
body.

Skeletal appearance: Sus scrofa skeletal structure is distinct. Structures include skull
morphology, dorsal profile, and external body measurements including tail length, head-body length, hind foot length, ear length, snout length, and shoulder height.

Tail structure: Sus scrofa exhibit straight tails. They contain the muscular structure to
curl their tails if needed, but the tails are typically held straight. Hybrids of Sus scrofa
exhibit either curly or straight tail structure.

Ear structure: Sus scrofa exhibit erect ear structure. Hybrids of Sus scrofa exhibit either erect or folded/floppy ear structure.

More information about the Invasive Species Order and the problem of invasive swine in Michigan and across the country can be found at DNR Feral Swine Redirect.

The Michigan Department of Natural Resources is committed to the conservation, protection, management, use and enjoyment of the state's natural and cultural resources for current and future generations. For more information, go to DNR - Department of Natural Resources.

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  #156  
Old 04/11/12, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Astrid View Post
If you watch to Mark Baker's videos, he indicates that he raises his pigs for specialty restaurants and people who want a different kind of pork than the homogenous feedlot pork available in every chain supermarket. He also compares the number of deer (which number over a million) shot last hunting season-meaning there were a lot of hunters doing a lot of hunting in Michigan and the number of feral pigs shot while all of this hunting was going on which was about 45. So if there were only 45 feral pigs taken, how has this become such a huge issue if it isn't simply big ag wanting to cut alternative breeds out of the market?
If you only look at the number of Wild Hogs shot last year as an indication of the whole population, I can see why someone would believe it isn't a problem.

However, Wild Hogs are very wary and generally become nocturnal. People that didn't think they had Wild Hogs were surprised when motion sensing night vision cameras showed groups of Wild Hogs on their property.

Mark is lying when he says Michigan hunters shot over a million deer. There were fewer than 500,000 deer shot in Michigan. Look it up.

This has nothing to do with the tiny market share that heritage breeds make. Mark doesn't need a Eurasian Boar to breed his heritage sows to hoodwink a gourmet chef into buying his hogs.

This has everything to do with farmers not wanting to have a disease sweep through the state, effectively putting them out of business. It has everything to do with farmers that do not want to lose crop production to this invasive speices, brought here by unthinking Hunt Club promoters. It has everything to do with the people that enjoy the beautiful lakes, ponds, streams, forests and meadows. They see no need for this distructive beast to exist in the wild. But most importantly, it has everything to do with the two hundred breeders and buyers of imported Wild Hogs (Russian Wild Hogs, Eurasian, Razorback, etc) that overall did a poor job keeping those wild hogs inside their fences, creating this mess that will be difficult to undo.
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  #157  
Old 04/11/12, 09:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by haypoint View Post
If you only look at the number of Wild Hogs shot last year as an indication of the whole population, I can see why someone would believe it isn't a problem.

However, Wild Hogs are very wary and generally become nocturnal. People that didn't think they had Wild Hogs were surprised when motion sensing night vision cameras showed groups of Wild Hogs on their property.

Mark is lying when he says Michigan hunters shot over a million deer. There were fewer than 500,000 deer shot in Michigan. Look it up.

This has nothing to do with the tiny market share that heritage breeds make. Mark doesn't need a Eurasian Boar to breed his heritage sows to hoodwink a gourmet chef into buying his hogs.

This has everything to do with farmers not wanting to have a disease sweep through the state, effectively putting them out of business. It has everything to do with farmers that do not want to lose crop production to this invasive speices, brought here by unthinking Hunt Club promoters. It has everything to do with the people that enjoy the beautiful lakes, ponds, streams, forests and meadows. They see no need for this distructive beast to exist in the wild. But most importantly, it has everything to do with the two hundred breeders and buyers of imported Wild Hogs (Russian Wild Hogs, Eurasian, Razorback, etc) that overall did a poor job keeping those wild hogs inside their fences, creating this mess that will be difficult to undo.
Bolds are mine for emphasis.

I think everyone would agree with that point whole-heartedly. Baker has himself stated repeatedly that his pigs outside of his fence is a bad thing if for no other reason than it's money lost. The dispute comes with the DNR's chosen method, which does nothing about the pigs in the wild.
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  #158  
Old 04/11/12, 09:20 AM
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"This has nothing to do with the tiny market share that heritage breeds make. Mark doesn't need a Eurasian Boar to breed his heritage sows to hoodwink a gourmet chef into buying his hogs."


I think you're gonna find a "tiny market share" for morel mushrooms too... and I don't really think he's trying to hoodwink anyone. Where ever did you get that notion?

I believe Mark breeds to Eurasian Boars to increase his litter size. I don't think he's trying to hide that.

Again, the issue is that HIS animals are properly fenced and maintained - no matter what breed and/or color or race they are...

You've still to address why any government entity can come and kill properly fenced and maintained animals on your own farm.

Sure, hoof and mouth disease. Sure. These don't have that. Do they have other communicable diseases? Like pseudorabies? I'll ask them.

Living in the Great State of Indiana? I love the wilds, the woods, the animals we have here.

If I had wild hogs on my property? I'd be looking to make them dead hogs. Not shrieking that my neighbor has fenced, maintained, properly processed hogs and I want them killed immediately.

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  #159  
Old 04/11/12, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Beowulf View Post
Bolds are mine for emphasis.

I know you read my post as far as the part you put in bold letters, but did you forget to read the following sentence? I think that explains it.

I think everyone would agree with that point whole-heartedly. Baker has himself stated repeatedly that his pigs outside of his fence is a bad thing if for no other reason than it's money lost. The dispute comes with the DNR's chosen method, which does nothing about the pigs in the wild.
DNR is doing everything in their power to eliminate Wild Hogs (Russian Wild Hogs, Eurasian wild Hogs, Razorbacks, etc) from the wild. So far they have been fairly ineffective. Seems they are difficult to hunt.

But while they take on that task, it makes no sense to allow people like Baker to contune to breed them. This even easier to understand when you understand what a poor job they have done so far containing this invasive breed.

This is a dual attempt to limit wild hogs from Michigan's public and private land. It involves killing the ones that have escaped and formed breeding populations. But it also includes stoping the source of these hundreds (perhaps thousands) of wild hogs.
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  #160  
Old 04/11/12, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Gailann Schrader View Post
"This has nothing to do with the tiny market share that heritage breeds make. Mark doesn't need a Eurasian Boar to breed his heritage sows to hoodwink a gourmet chef into buying his hogs."


I think you're gonna find a "tiny market share" for morel mushrooms too... and I don't really think he's trying to hoodwink anyone. Where ever did you get that notion?

I believe Mark breeds to Eurasian Boars to increase his litter size. I don't think he's trying to hide that.

Again, the issue is that HIS animals are properly fenced and maintained - no matter what breed and/or color or race they are...

You've still to address why any government entity can come and kill properly fenced and maintained animals on your own farm.

Sure, hoof and mouth disease. Sure. These don't have that. Do they have other communicable diseases? Like pseudorabies? I'll ask them.

Living in the Great State of Indiana? I love the wilds, the woods, the animals we have here.

If I had wild hogs on my property? I'd be looking to make them dead hogs. Not shrieking that my neighbor has fenced, maintained, properly processed hogs and I want them killed immediately.
I've been around long enough to see unique marketing ploys used to create something special that really isn't so special. For awhile it was beefalo. The American Angus has given themselves a marketing bump. If Baker has convinced that his heritage breed tastes better, good for him. We had someone on HT feed her hogs a special diet and the resulting pork was to die for. Maybe, maybe not. That is what marketing is all about. But to believe that this specialty market is of any concern to Big Ag is just silly.

Please show me where Baker said he was using an Eurasian Boar to increase litter size. I'd also need to see the documentation that crossing his heritage sows to another heritage breed wouldn't do the same thing?

If "if"s and "but"s were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas. You don't have Wild Hogs. You don't know how difficult they are to eradicate.

I think, if truth be told, Baker has had hogs escape. Most of the Wild Hog breeders have lost large percentages of their Wild Hogs. Hard to believe he is the exception that stands as stark contrast to the others.


He was informed last year that they were considered an invasive specis and he has had plenty of time to market them and get going on a new cross for his heritage sows. He chose to keep his Eurasian Boar and the resulting cross breeds.
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  #161  
Old 04/12/12, 05:21 AM
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Why even try to talk with you highpoint?
you didn't even watch his video clips or you would know that his sows are Russian.
michigan DNR vs SMALL HOG FARM part3 - YouTube

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  #162  
Old 04/12/12, 06:41 AM
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Why even try to talk with you highpoint?
you didn't even watch his video clips or you would know that his sows are Russian.
michigan DNR vs SMALL HOG FARM part3 - YouTube
Eurasian, Russian, Razorback, etc. Makes no difference to me. They have been declaired invasive.

MDA and MSU Extension have been helping promote Small Farms, Farmers Markets and have recently developed a Cottage Food Law that makes it easier to market foods produced at home in uninspected home kitchens. Michigan government is promoting small farms. Just not those that are breeding wild hogs that have escaped all over the state and are now establishing breeding populations.

The Michigan DNR has been able to tromp onto your property for decades. That is how they catch poachers and other hunting violations.

He might as well give it up. If he is able to hold onto the least Wild Hog looking pigs, they will squash him with regulations and fines. Not what I'd like to see, but that's the reality of it.

In the mean time, send him your money, lots of it.
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  #163  
Old 04/12/12, 07:41 AM
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Latest news:
Ag. Commission To Explore Swine Policies

The Department of Natural Resources could see some guidance from the Commission of Agriculture and Rural Development on implementing and enforcing its invasive species order against certain types of pigs, and commissioners said they hoped that advice would come before any harm befell DNR officials.
Commissioner Donald Coe (I-Traverse City) and Diane Hanson (I-Cornell) both said they had received calls from farmers who raised pigs that they felt could fall under the order, and who indicated they might use force to protect their operations.

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  #164  
Old 04/12/12, 07:45 AM
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looks like your donations to Baker aren't going to hire a Lawyer, looks like he, and others, are planning on buying ammunition.

Should be an interesting summer. While the Blacks are shooting Pigs in Sanford, Florida, Michigan DNR will be shooting Pigs in Michigan.

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  #165  
Old 04/12/12, 07:54 AM
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*sigh*
what I was pointing out was it is his sows. not the boar. you can easily replace a male but females that are good mothers are valuable. can't have a breeding program without females.

So you feel it is right to be punished when you are innocent?

not to long ago the Amish fought the law that their kids had to go to high school. they won.
why?
not really because of religion but because the law changed to make something they believed, illegal that wasn't before. now they can choose if they want them to stop at the 8th grade or continue on to high school. some do and some don't.
so yes laws can be fought.

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Last edited by tailwagging; 04/12/12 at 07:56 AM.
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  #166  
Old 04/12/12, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by haypoint View Post
Latest news:
Ag. Commission To Explore Swine Policies

The Department of Natural Resources could see some guidance from the Commission of Agriculture and Rural Development on implementing and enforcing its invasive species order against certain types of pigs, and commissioners said they hoped that advice would come before any harm befell DNR officials.
Commissioner Donald Coe (I-Traverse City) and Diane Hanson (I-Cornell) both said they had received calls from farmers who raised pigs that they felt could fall under the order, and who indicated they might use force to protect their operations.

AHHH the word to look at is MIGHT.
I can't blame them for being riled up. there are ways to work this out without shooting their pigs or forcing them to get red of them.
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  #167  
Old 04/12/12, 11:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by haypoint View Post
looks like your donations to Baker aren't going to hire a Lawyer, looks like he, and others, are planning on buying ammunition.

Should be an interesting summer. While the Blacks are shooting Pigs in Sanford, Florida, Michigan DNR will be shooting Pigs in Michigan.

You just keep piling on baseless speculation on top of bull-----. I may be naive to take a man at his word after following up on his citations, but at least the hot air coming out of my mouth isn't the same as the hot air coming out of my ass...
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  #168  
Old 04/13/12, 08:51 AM
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I asked the Baker's the question we wanted to know:

specifically this: "Can you tell me, have your hogs been tested? Do they have pseudorabies or any other hog-to-hog communicable disease?"

Here is Jill's answer I received last night:

Our pigs go through a USDA shop, so they are inspected by a USDA inspector prior to and after the kill. All of our pigs have been disease free. This is the same process any other breed of hog raised for slaughter goes through. These hogs (Mangalitsa and Boars, both, along with most other heritage breeds) are more disease resistant than the hybrid white hog house pigs, so are less likely to have communicable diseases.

An additional point is that, by law, a hog being sent to slaughter can cross state lines with no testing at all. The argument that the hog barns will not be able to ship hogs to market because of pseudorabies, etc. is not true. Only hogs being relocated (such as piglets for feeding) must be tested. In MI, the pigs going into hog houses come from within the state and therefore would also not be affected. Just to dispel some of the misinformation out there.

I did answer, I think, that last question you had that I haven't had a chance to get back to you on. I am glad people are asking you questions and you're able to get the answers. We're running into a lot of deliberate misinformation and appreciate the chance to set things straight.
Jill



Interesting. I had no idea that HOGS SENT TO SLAUGHTER can cross state lines with no testing at all. Fascinating...

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  #169  
Old 04/13/12, 10:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by haypoint View Post
I think, if truth be told, Baker has had hogs escape. Most of the Wild Hog breeders have lost large percentages of their Wild Hogs. Hard to believe he is the exception that stands as stark contrast to the others.
Considering that he has only one, his boar, I think he'd notice, and probably goes out of his way to keep it contained. His sows are more numerous, but are a heritage breed, and are no more or less likely to flee into the wild as any other domesticated breed.
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  #170  
Old 04/13/12, 11:15 AM
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I thought he used a Mang boar over his russian sows?

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  #171  
Old 04/13/12, 12:18 PM
 
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I thought he used a Mang boar over his russian sows?
He does, but since I have no proof to the contrary, and as he has said "Pigs outside the fence are money lost." I'll take him at his word that he isn't allowing pigs to escape, rather than assuming that he's lying.
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  #172  
Old 04/13/12, 12:28 PM
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That's what I thought. I was talking about Dragon saying that he only has one russian boar.

I'm from OH and we are in the middle of passing exotic animal laws based upon the fact that you could release them and pose a danger. All because some ex con who was fed up with reality, releases tigers, bears, wolves, numerous monkeys, ect. and then commited suicide. They are working to word it so there is a threat that a person could release them purposly. This seems like the same thing here.

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  #173  
Old 04/13/12, 01:52 PM
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That's what I thought. I was talking about Dragon saying that he only has one russian boar.

I'm from OH and we are in the middle of passing exotic animal laws based upon the fact that you could release them and pose a danger. All because some ex con who was fed up with reality, releases tigers, bears, wolves, numerous monkeys, ect. and then commited suicide. They are working to word it so there is a threat that a person could release them purposly. This seems like the same thing here.
I myself wounder if he really did release them or was it a set up and murder by ARs to get the law passed.

like why were the cages were cut open and not just open the doors.....
why were there chicken spread around the body?
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  #174  
Old 04/14/12, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gailann Schrader View Post


You've still to address why any government entity can come and kill properly fenced and maintained animals on your own farm.



If I had wild hogs on my property? I'd be looking to make them dead hogs. Not shrieking that my neighbor has fenced, maintained, properly processed hogs and I want them killed immediately.


This is how most of us feel.
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  #175  
Old 04/14/12, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by haypoint View Post
If you don't want to rely on rumors, get the straight scoop by calling directly to the DNR Wildlife Division at 517-373-1263.

Did that. They say that they aren't "planning" on comming to farms etc and killing off (or fining the people for) Heritage breeds, that they are after a specific hog.


Then, I asked, why wasn't that specific hog clearly defined in writing?

They had no answer. Now, I learned MANY years ago, that the written word holds ALL the power over the spoken word. Do I believe them that they wrote this "vauge description" without ever intending to use it at their whim? Nope. Do I take the word of 3 DNR officers that I have discussed this with over that written law? NOPE.
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  #176  
Old 04/14/12, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by haypoint View Post
Latest news:
Ag. Commission To Explore Swine Policies

The Department of Natural Resources could see some guidance from the Commission of Agriculture and Rural Development on implementing and enforcing its invasive species order against certain types of pigs, and commissioners said they hoped that advice would come before any harm befell DNR officials.
Commissioner Donald Coe (I-Traverse City) and Diane Hanson (I-Cornell) both said they had received calls from farmers who raised pigs that they felt could fall under the order, and who indicated they might use force to protect their operations.
that's the way the law was written originally,Recommendations where to be made by commission. two of which where the DNR and MDA. Gov.Granholm effectively over hauled the law striking the commission and granting all powers to the DNR.

I do not think that Law would have passed had if it had been set up that way in the beginning. Doing so after the fact changes the whole nature of the original. I don't know if it could be challenged on that merit alone though.

its not right that such a thing can be done, I think it was actually a Blatant over step by the Gov.! Intent of the original Law as written needs to be addressed as well as intent of the cited powers of the gov in this action.
in essence she rewrote the law by striking that one part,which is a fundamentally making law,which the Gov is not vested to do. that falls to the legislature.

Transfer of Powers and Duties of Invasive Species Advisory Council to Department of Natural Resources by Type III Transfer; Abolishment of Invasive Species Advisory Council - Mich. Comp. Laws Section 324.99910 - Michigan Attorney Resources - Michigan

This is why many are so wary of poorly or broadly written laws and regulations. the other problem is no two enforcement agents nor agencys interpretation of any one law coincide.

by the way, I often call agency's including the DNR to clarify there position and understanding of the Law. You might give it a go some time it may enlighten you to how clueless our enforcers can be sometimes. pick any thing you like and call three different offices.
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Last edited by ||Downhome||; 04/14/12 at 07:16 AM.
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  #177  
Old 04/16/12, 07:44 PM
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baker update

some are raided on Saturday (I think that is a weekend day, right?)

Bakers Green Acres

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  #178  
Old 04/16/12, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gailann Schrader View Post
I asked the Baker's the question we wanted to know:

specifically this: "Can you tell me, have your hogs been tested? Do they have pseudorabies or any other hog-to-hog communicable disease?"

Here is Jill's answer I received last night:

Our pigs go through a USDA shop, so they are inspected by a USDA inspector prior to and after the kill. All of our pigs have been disease free. This is the same process any other breed of hog raised for slaughter goes through. These hogs (Mangalitsa and Boars, both, along with most other heritage breeds) are more disease resistant than the hybrid white hog house pigs, so are less likely to have communicable diseases.

An additional point is that, by law, a hog being sent to slaughter can cross state lines with no testing at all. The argument that the hog barns will not be able to ship hogs to market because of pseudorabies, etc. is not true. Only hogs being relocated (such as piglets for feeding) must be tested. In MI, the pigs going into hog houses come from within the state and therefore would also not be affected. Just to dispel some of the misinformation out there.

I did answer, I think, that last question you had that I haven't had a chance to get back to you on. I am glad people are asking you questions and you're able to get the answers. We're running into a lot of deliberate misinformation and appreciate the chance to set things straight.
Jill



Interesting. I had no idea that HOGS SENT TO SLAUGHTER can cross state lines with no testing at all. Fascinating...
But Jill did not answer your question.

She simply responded in a way that made it sound like their pigs are tested for psudorabies. “Are your pigs that you brought into a Slaughter Facility tested for psudorabies?” would be a good question. You could ask is another way, “ Have your pigs ever been tested for psudorabies?” or “ Before you imported (relocated) your Russian Wild Hogs, did you get Interstate Health Certificates?” and “ Did they/you/anyone test for psudorabies?”

You could get a bit more specific, so you would know what she said was what you think she means. Ask, “ When you say that piglets for feeding must be tested, can you say who does this testing and have you ever had anyone test your piglets for feeding?”

Anyone that knows anything about slaughter knows that you can cross state lines for direct to slaughter. Anyone in livestock business should know that a disease outbreak can slam the door on your sale of breeding stock into other states. A loss of that market reduces the value of everyone’s hogs, supply/demand. Michigan isn’t the holder of most of this country’s breeding stock. So, pigs are imported. There are also several Michigan breeders that specialize in Show Pigs. They depend on being able to sell to other states.
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  #179  
Old 04/17/12, 06:52 AM
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NaturalNews exclusive: Michigan government unleashes armed raids on small pig farmers, forces farmer to shoot all his own pigs
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  #180  
Old 04/17/12, 08:56 AM
 
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Anybody think you live in a free country?

Storm
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