FYI-early spay/neuter

Oregon Julie · #1 08/20/12, 02:00 PM

Aching knees---conclusions of study | Angry Vet

Might be a better idea to wait, considering the cost of ACL surgery.

gapeach · #2 08/20/12, 07:48 PM

Rescue dogs no matter what age are spayed or neutered in Georgia. I hope this is not going to be a problem for their owners.

AJohnston · #3 08/20/12, 07:53 PM

I've begun to notice that more and more vets in our area refuse the spay/neuter any animals that are not at least six months old. This has only been in development for the past few years, as it used to be at the age of six weeks. I'm glad to say that my animals generally don't get spayed or neutered until they are at least a year old... I was unaware of this study and am glad now that I generally choose to wait until I know they've atleast made it to "adulthood".

akane · #4 08/20/12, 08:35 PM

Plenty of research has shown early neutering is bad and many groups such as those that raise guide dogs for the blind won't neuter before 8months anymore. With the push from shelters and animal rights groups to neuter everything asap though this info never came to light until recently. 5 years ago when I was debating when to spay my akita there was already plenty of studies and first hand accounts against early neutering that I didn't have her done until her second heat cycle. I just had to go to an international forum with a good amount of UK members to find that info.

**beccachow** · #5 08/20/12, 08:40 PM

My vet doesn't want to spay Brandy until after her second heat. She is just over a year and has had her first.

Cricket was not neutered until he was two. I felt stupid taking him in so late; he was to be bred until he nipped at someone. As a chow, that's not a trait to pass on, so snip snip. The vet assured me that two was a perfect age for a neuter.

NickieL · #6 08/20/12, 09:35 PM

I was afraid to neuter jack, afraid of anyting bad happening to him if something went wrong, so I wated untill he was about a year and half. But my vet finially talked me into it. He thought Jack being neutered may make him less fear agressive.

MO_cows · #7 08/20/12, 10:16 PM

I'm gonna stick with early spay/neuter. To me it is the lesser of the evils to be absolutely sure not to bring an "oops" litter in this world.

tailwagging · #8 08/21/12, 03:02 PM

some breeds have issues with pediatric spay/neutering
example Miniature Schnauzer who are prone to kidney stones. if "fixed" early the urethra will not grow to it's full size which then is more likely to not let stones pass.

here are so other links
Canine Sports Productions: Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete
Is Early Neutering Hurting Pets?

I myself suggest in my breed that males be fixed early and girls after their first heat.

Jackie · #9 08/21/12, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO_cows

I'm gonna stick with early spay/neuter. To me it is the lesser of the evils to be absolutely sure not to bring an "oops" litter in this world.

True. I am so bloody sick of puppies and kittens...I dont care if they are 6 weeks or 6 months but they better not be a day over 6 months IMO. All mine get fixed the day they turn 6 months.. I have yet to see a dog or cat have babies before that but I am sure its possible...but even if they were newly pregnant the spay would take care of that. Any adult animals in my possesion are done ASAP. And thank goodness so many shelters do them as babies before they leave! My goodness...so many people forget they are supposed to have them done in a few months.

Maura · #10 08/21/12, 04:39 PM

I'm sold on later neutering. Some breeds have real problems with being neutered at any age, others have fewer problems if they are neutered. A person really needs to research their chosen breeds before committing to a neuter, and know what age is best. You also have to know your situation best, if it is possible for you to wait and not get a litter due to conditions beyond your control.

Jackie · #11 08/21/12, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maura

I'm sold on later neutering. Some breeds have real problems with being neutered at any age, others have fewer problems if they are neutered. A person really needs to research their chosen breeds before committing to a neuter, and know what age is best. You also have to know your situation best, if it is possible for you to wait and not get a litter due to conditions beyond your control.

'Chosen breed' makes me laugh to myself. My dogs are not a breed..and I certainly did not choose them. One is mostly corgi, but how much actual corgi is in him is anyones guess. The other two couldnt get any farther from a 'breed'. They dont look like anything. Like cant even guess. I would love to get them DNA tested but I am afraid my one dog would have too much pitt bull in her for my taste...so maybe I am better off not knowing.

I actually cant think of many people I know who have a dog that is a 'breed'. Most are just mongrels that could be anything. I guess with dogs like that they should be fixed asap cause who on earth would want puppies from a mutt?

A guy I know recently facebooked me for help to find homes for 8 kittens. He wanted to know if I wanted them!!!!!!!!!!!! NO!!!!!! I do not want kittens. if I wanted kittens I would already have some. I scolded him for even having kittens in the first place. He said that his girlfriend had gotten 2 female kittens and a male kitten. Their vet said to wait until they were a year old to get them all fixed. Ok...how stupid is the vet? They had taken them in for shots so they knew it was two females and a male....on a farm. What were they going to do? Lock the females up for 6 months? Now there are 8 more cats in this world. UGH like we need that.

gapeach · #12 08/21/12, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO_cows

I'm gonna stick with early spay/neuter. To me it is the lesser of the evils to be absolutely sure not to bring an "oops" litter in this world.

I think that is the way the shelters feel too. Here, some Vets donate their time every Wednesday at the Humane Society to spay and neuter. I am very happy that they do. I agree that it is the lesser of two evils.

We neutered our last GSD's at 2 months and one had an ACL injury in his 2nd year. I will never know if early neutering had anything to do with it.

Oregon Julie · #13 08/21/12, 06:11 PM

As with all things in the world, it is not a one size fits all situation. I posted the information for those who were interested in it and you can take it or leave it, your choice. I will wait with mine because I am capable of keeping my cats from getting pregnant, my dogs from getting pregnant, and my male dogs are not wandering the county looking for "love" in all the wrong places. However I know that some are not and for them, early s/n is most likely the best way to go for them.

oregon woodsmok · #14 08/21/12, 06:23 PM

Every dog I know that has had ACL surgery has been a show dog, and they are not spayed or neutered if they are going to be shown. So, I would surmise that leaving a dog with weak ligaments intact isn't going to save you any grief in that area. (I am sure that pets get cruciate surgery, but I don't know anyione with a pet who has had it done)

I would say that some breeds have a tendency towards it and some sports can cause more problems than normal. Agility tends to blow out patellas.

Maybe well bred show dogs have less trouble than puppy mill mutts. Poorly bred dogs are probably spayed earlier because they are mostly going into pet homes.

So, is it the early neutering or is it poor breeding?

mrstillery09 · #15 08/21/12, 06:50 PM

Wow this is actually very interesting. We have two lab mixes, our eldest, Duke was neutered though I'm not entirely sure at what age. He tore his cruciate last August, with surgery to correct last September (it's almost been 1 year! WOOT!) I may keep this in mind for dogs I may get in the future.

Edited To Add: Duke is currently about 4 years old and tore his cruciate when he was about 3.

akane · #16 08/21/12, 08:29 PM

Quote:

So, is it the early neutering or is it poor breeding?

The non akc agility clubs using mutts, puppy mill rescues, and whatever else they get their hands on have been finding the dogs have less injuries if neutered later and going to late neuter if they aren't adopting from a shelter that requires it. Breeding is taken out of that equation. That's actually the first groups I heard openly speaking up against early neutering even though the guide dog associations had been practicing it long before.

Actually the reason that it was done away with for service animals is not physical problems. They found the dogs and especially females were much more likely to develop aggressive behavior and wash out of the programs if spayed before reaching full maturity. The study has long since been buried though and I no longer have an active link.

Haven · #17 08/22/12, 06:24 AM

Based on the dogs I work with who have been early s/n, I think it is pure mutilation to do this early s/n. I can't tell you how many dogs I see with severe orthopedic issues due to this. Not to mention grossly tiny genitals on massive dogs that literally get sucked up into belly fat causing issues with the belly being soaked and matted in urine. One OES I work with was early s/n, his long bones grew as tall as a great dane, he is cow hocked with stilted angulation, screwed up hocks and stifle and his rear toes are literally twisted with flat feet from the orthopedic issues. He is in constant pain, quivering under his own weight, and the genitals on this 100+ lb dog are the size of a Shih Tzu.

TxHorseMom · #18 08/22/12, 11:18 AM

Our local shelter does what I think is an interesting solution. If you adopt a puppy who is "too young" to spay or neuter, they charge you an extra "fee". You will pay your $75 adoption fee, then pay an additional $75-$100. When the puppy is old enough, you take it back to the shelter, they will spay it, and then "refund" your $75-$100. I've always adopted adult dogs, but my daughter adopted a puppy 6 years ago and that is what they did. It was like a "bonus" when he was 6 months old.

mekasmom · #19 08/22/12, 12:24 PM

I understand not wanting puppies. Our youngest LGD was spayed early, around six months because I just didn't want to deal with puppies. I'm too old, to tired and just thought of myself first in this situation because I didn't want to have to deal with a dozen puppies or more from a litter. And, now, she is just under 2, and has difficulty getting up, gets up slow, and I know it is my fault. But I do understand making the decision to have a dog spayed early. Sometimes it just seems like a better choice in a situation. But it is not good for the dog.
One of our chihuahuas was spayed at 5mo, and still has incontinance issues. She is 7 now. But she was just so very small, it seemed safer to have her altered than to risk a pregnancy.
We all make decisions in each situation. But I really don't think early altering is good for dogs overall. But sometimes you just have to choose to do it.

Cannon_Farms · #20 08/22/12, 03:13 PM

mekasmom, try and give her ester C for a couple months and see if that helps. LGDs are haphazardly bred for the most part so it could be genetics too.

DaniR1968 · #21 08/22/12, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackie

'

A guy I know recently facebooked me for help to find homes for 8 kittens. He wanted to know if I wanted them!!!!!!!!!!!! NO!!!!!! I do not want kittens. if I wanted kittens I would already have some. I scolded him for even having kittens in the first place. He said that his girlfriend had gotten 2 female kittens and a male kitten. Their vet said to wait until they were a year old to get them all fixed. Ok...how stupid is the vet? They had taken them in for shots so they knew it was two females and a male....on a farm. What were they going to do? Lock the females up for 6 months? Now there are 8 more cats in this world. UGH like we need that.

Stupid vet? How about stupid owners for not separating the male from the females during their heat cycles. It's really not that hard to do for a responsible pet owner.

hardworkingwoman · #22 08/23/12, 08:57 AM

Are there certain breeds more suceptable to these problems or is it all dogs in general? I have Boston Terriers.

oregon woodsmok · #23 08/23/12, 02:45 PM

It appears to me that breeds with straight stifles are the most at risk. Boston Terrier would be one. Rottweillers, Chows, Pugs, Shar Pei, Bulldogs, and the like.

Hard turns at high speed will injure cruciate, too. So you see it sometimes in agility and sheep herding. Although not as many injuries as you might expect considering the degree of athleticism.

The humans I've know with torn cruciate have done it playing soccer, baseball, basketball. I suspect that beach volleyball gets some. High speed, sharp turns, deep footing.

hardworkingwoman · #24 08/25/12, 07:11 PM

but what does this have to do with getting dogs fixed? I am just trying to figure out the connection. thanks

GrannyCarol · #25 08/25/12, 08:16 PM

Dogs that are fixed young don't grow normal bones, their bones are longer and it can change the shape of the joint as well. The sex hormones are a part of the growth cycle that tells the dog's bones when to quit growing. I suspect my comment is vastly over simplified.

akane · #26 08/25/12, 08:37 PM

I wonder if this has to do with what I feel is completely improper thinking when it comes to feeding large breed puppies. Lots of people feed a diet of low nutrients to slow growth and keep the bones from getting long. I fed mine on the highest protein food I could afford and most highest quality foods don't have a puppy or much less large breed formula. Feeding raw we don't have different diets for puppies either except to feed more per body weight. Perhaps the problem is not in the diet but in the early neutering.

Wolf Flower · #27 08/25/12, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekasmom

And, now, she is just under 2, and has difficulty getting up, gets up slow, and I know it is my fault.

If she is having problems getting up and down at only 2 years of age, spaying did NOT cause this and it is NOT your fault. Has she seen the vet since this started? Have her hips been x-rayed? It is absolutely not normal. I have seen thousands of female dogs, most of which were spayed at about 6 months, and I have never seen one present with these kinds of problems by age 2 unless they had hip or elbow dysplasia, or some kind of injury.

And no, HD is not caused by spaying. If it were, we could cure HD by simply leaving all dogs intact... and intact dogs get HD all the time. I have had two.

Wolf Flower · #28 08/25/12, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaniR1968

Stupid vet? How about stupid owners for not separating the male from the females during their heat cycles. It's really not that hard to do for a responsible pet owner.

Actually, with intact cats, you must keep them separated at all times or females WILL get pregnant. Female cats, once they reach maturity, will cycle constantly until they are bred... so it's not just a matter of separating them during heat cycles. For practical purposes, the heat cycle lasts from February to December.

Ruby · #29 08/25/12, 09:08 PM

We adopted our two MUTS from a friend who was fostering the mother and pups from a humane society. The day we got them, one was 8 wks, the other one we got 2 wks. later was 10 wks. They made the apt to have them spayed at 3 mo. old. But one of them had demadatic (spelling?) mange so we had to pospone until they were 5 mo. old.

Luigi is not nutered. He stays inside a fenced yard, we've had him nearly 2 years and had no problems with him. He has arthritis so don't plan on getting him nutered. There are no female dogs that are not spayed he can get to. In the winter he stays inside most of the time.

#30 08/26/12, 11:42 PM

We got Maggie when she was 6 weeks old and she was already fixed. Her bladder leaked till she was quite old. Even now if we don't get her out as soon as she asks she has some problems.
I wish they had waited to fix her.