DogsBite.org

Jeffery · #1 07/25/12, 10:23 AM

In the 3-year period from 2006 to 2008, pit bull type dogs killed 52 Americans and accounted for 59% of all fatal dog attacks. Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers accounted for 73% of these deaths. DogsBite.org is a national dog bite victims' group dedicated to reducing serious dog attacks. Through our work, we hope to protect both people and pets from future attacks.
http://www.dogsbite.org/dogsbite-new...lity-study.php
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SDjulieinSC · #2 07/25/12, 10:56 AM

Wow. This is a can of worms............

**beccachow** · #3 07/25/12, 11:13 AM

Oh dear...let me get my popcorn...

Otter · #4 07/25/12, 11:30 AM

I think my favorite part about posts like that is the "pit bull type dogs" Which doesn't include a fraction as many pit bulls as it does every lab mix, boxer mix, slick-haired mutt, cur, dog with a wide face, drop ears or solid, brindle or piebald color (basically everything except sables, merles and Irish white spotting, though you'll find a sprinkling of those too.) Throwing rotties in scoops up all those pesky black and tans.

So, does Dog Bite. org work towards educating owners and looking for stricter and tougher penalties for people who keep dogs who are known nuisances, at large, or not kept under the owner's control? Does it work for tougher penalties for people who've been prohibited from keeping animals because of past crimes and yet keep them anyway?

Because if all it's working for is a breed ban, then the ignorance is astounding, the desire both selfish and cruel and the result ineffective.
People will just go back to Dobies (WW2s Devil Dogs, or hadn't you heard?) or GSDs, both victims of past breed bans - but hey, at least they don't have those blocky heads, right?
Fluffy Airedales can be brought up to be pretty vicious.

But hey! Who cares about reality? Let's just ban breeds as if that hasn't been proven not to work for over 60 years! C'mon everybody

Haven · #5 07/25/12, 12:11 PM

I literally just got done working on a 25 lb Lhasa Apso that did alligator rolls, and tried to commit suicide while attacking me like Cujo for an hour. I'm sure if it was as large as a Rott, it may of had a chance at succeeding at killing me.

I'm having another WONDERFUL day at work today. Not.

There is a never ending stream of viscious dogs in the grooming industry. The only reason they don't make it onto the bite lists is because of small stature.

If vets and groomers started reporting bites and attacks on a daily basis the tops of those lists would be filled with toy dogs and there would be a push to ban them.

pancho · #6 07/25/12, 12:18 PM

Wonder who gets to decide what breed the dog is?

MDKatie · #7 07/25/12, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haven

I literally just got done working on a 25 lb Lhasa Apso that did alligator rolls, and tried to commit suicide while attacking me like Cujo for an hour. I'm sure if it was as large as a Rott, it may of had a chance at succeeding at killing me.

I'm having another WONDERFUL day at work today. Not.

There is a never ending stream of viscious dogs in the grooming industry. The only reason they don't make it onto the bite lists is because of small stature.

If vets and groomers started reporting bites and attacks on a daily basis the tops of those lists would be filled with toy dogs and there would be a push to ban them.

I worked at a groomer's one summer. Seemed the most obnoxious dogs we had were Bichons. HATED them! They were nasty, as were Schnauzers. The only dog that succeeding in biting me was a Sheltie. The big dogs never gave us any trouble.

Otter · #8 07/25/12, 12:40 PM

Pancho, you'll like this. A fellow came to my door to sell insurance (I hadn't realized till then they still do that!) and told me my dog Deacon looked "a little pitty around the eyes" and that house insurance would therefore cost more.

This is Deacon;

partndn · #9 07/25/12, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter

Pancho, you'll like this. A fellow came to my door to sell insurance (I hadn't realized till then they still do that!) and told me my dog Deacon looked "a little pitty around the eyes" and that house insurance would therefore cost more.

This is Deacon;

You have got to be kidding.

Oh lordy!
I'm sorry but on a serious note, it infuriates me that that's probably true about the rate being higher. and yeah, who says what the breed is??

that is a very pretty dog you have!

RedDirt Cowgirl · #10 07/25/12, 01:45 PM

This dog bite by breeds thing IS a can of worms, but I think the value in looking at stats is to evaluate the level of damage different kinds of dogs are capable of.

Hope we can agree, all kinds of dogs bite. That said, the recurrent incidents of toddlers maimed by the family dog seems to call for some kind of better awareness. It's not likely the doodah owners of dangerous dogs are going to be poring over the data though.

Danaus29 · #11 07/25/12, 01:52 PM

Where is the info about watching for loose dogs and how to prevent a dog attack?
Breed bans don't work. You ban one breed and a bunch of jerks decides to use another breed for attack dogs. I've seen them go from German Shepards to dobermans to Dalmations to rottweillers to pitt bulls. In every single breed there were thousands of wonderful dogs for every mean one.

OTOH, I would love to see a "stupid owner ban". People who have a track record of letting their dogs run loose or having attacked people off their property should be banned from having ANY dog for life!

farmmom · #12 07/25/12, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haven

If vets and groomers started reporting bites and attacks on a daily basis the tops of those lists would be filled with toy dogs and there would be a push to ban them.

As a vet tech, I have experienced this!! The only large dog I've ever been bit by was a Golden Retriever. The worst dog bite I've ever had that resulted in multiple sutures was from and Eskimo Spitz. Next to that was a Jack Russell, then the Pekes, Chi's, and other toy breeds. Even when agitated, a large breed dog is much easier to restrain that a little one, IMO.

ETA - I've worked with hundreds of Pitts and Pitt "types" and never been subjected to an aggressive stance by one.

romysbaskets · #13 07/25/12, 02:17 PM

I think that if they lump Pit Bull Types with actual Pit Bulls and proven or known Pit Bull mixes, that is a little confusing and not exactly accurate? They should never refer to a dog as a type, it either is or it isn't. It is not that hard to find out if each dog that attacks is part Pit Bull or is a full Pit Bull and be accurate. There are a lot of different breeds that will bite especially small dogs but they seldom kill which is why the numbers are so off. Of the bigger dogs, many do not end up in fatality counts so it is hard for these studies to make sense unless they list both and really identify the breeds that bite and those that result in death. Lumping dogs together gets pet owners to question it and I agree, they need to be accurate!

Now this said...a sad story from a friend involving his full blooded registered Pit Bull.

My Friend, loved his obedient full blooded Pit Bull he raised for 5 years with his 5 year old daughter. This dog was so sweet and loving, they adored him. The little girl and their dog were like best friends. One day, as they were in the back yard, fully fenced and she was playing on the swing set, this Pit Bull ran full board from across the yard and pulled her off by her head, then began biting her. Her Father, who was watching his little blonde blue eyed girl play in the back yard through his kitchen window, immediately grabbed his gun on his way by the back door and ran out to get his daughter released. She has life long scars and he had to shoot his own dog after he buried his daughters bleeding face in his shoulder as the dog was not backing off and he feared for his own life, he could not even leave his own yard until he shot the dog. He then rushed her to the local hospital, she lost a lot of blood. This friend is a very strong and big man who never had a single issue with his family pet before then. He was so sad about his dog and his daughter both. This dog was such a loved family pet and never showed any aggression before of any kind. My friend was so confused by what happened.

I took care of a 6 week old full blooded Pit Bull for my daughter some years ago. This sweet little dog began tearing my pant leg edge in play one day. I reached down to shoo him away and he got my finger in his mouth by mistake, there was no aggression and it was clearly an accident on his part. He had bitten down but did not seem to be able to release my finger, it was stuck. I got worried, it did hurt but I calmly picked him up with my other hand and pried open his jaw to get my finger out. I think that these dogs have a very strong bite and this is one of the issues when they attack.

Recently, I have read some stories where Pit Bulls have saved their owners lives. You will find Pit Bulls who never bite lumped along with those that do.

There are many breeds that will bite or attack and abused dogs are more likely to. However, with a dog that has a strong jaw like a Pit Bull, owners need to be responsible. It is not about pointing fingers so they need to be careful with these studies, any dog with teeth can bite. Each fatality needs to be accurately documented to the breed of dog not assumed or generalized.

JasoninMN · #14 07/25/12, 02:22 PM

This group is full of misinformation and is about the same as the HSUS and PETA. They are based out of Texas and are mailing flyers to every resident in one Minnesota city trying to get BSL laws passed. Sadly for them BSL is illegal in MN. Statistics can be adjusted in whatever way you want them to best present your case. All I am going to say about breed specific legislation is if anyone enjoys owning a dog of any breed they better put their breed biases aside and not support this legislation.

pancho · #15 07/25/12, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter

Pancho, you'll like this. A fellow came to my door to sell insurance (I hadn't realized till then they still do that!) and told me my dog Deacon looked "a little pitty around the eyes" and that house insurance would therefore cost more.

This is Deacon;

Now that was a very knowledgable salesman.
I never would have guessed Deacon was part pit.
Wonder if they have someone with his knowledge judging what breed dogs that bite belong to?

farmmom · #16 07/25/12, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter

Pancho, you'll like this. A fellow came to my door to sell insurance (I hadn't realized till then they still do that!) and told me my dog Deacon looked "a little pitty around the eyes" and that house insurance would therefore cost more.

This is Deacon;

Unbelievable!! My guess would be Border Collie mix -am I right?

Otter · #17 07/25/12, 03:06 PM

If it hadn't happened to me, I wouldn't believe it. The conversation went;
"Where did you buy that Border Collie?" <admiring look>
"Oh, DD pulled him out from under a shed at a friend's house and gave him to me for Mother's day"
"So you don't know his breeding then?" <dismay>
"No, his mother looked as much like a heeler as he does a Border Collie"
"Oh. Well. I'm surprised you trust him then. You never know just what a mongrel has in them. Look how broad his forehead is. And his eyes. He looks a little pitty around the eyes to me."
Dumfounded silence, as I stare incredulously from this man to my narrow, typey, 27 pounds of long-legged Border Collie cross dog.
He continues, "Just to be safe, I'd have to put him down as a dangerous breed. He definitely looks like a pit bull around the eyes. Your insurance would cost more, but you'd get extra coverage if he bit someone..."

Not having wanted insurance in the first place, I asked him to leave. I was proud of myself for restraining myself from pointing out that the beagle wasn't purebred either, and not succumbing to the temptation to see if either of the dogs would bite.
I was reminded forcibly of the saying "lies, d*mn lies, and statistics"

dlskidmore · #18 07/25/12, 03:27 PM

Strong jaw has little to do with it. I had a 140 lb Great Dane with a biting problem, but he never more than bruised anyone. There is no doubt there was power there to do more damage, but he only did what he thought necessary to make someone back off. Our adoption contract forbade us from putting him down, so we returned him and had nothing further to do with that adoption agency.

Personally, I don't like leaving children and dogs together. Maybe if it's a livestock guardian dog from working lines that you've seen be submissive to lambs and chickens, but otherwise, always supervise. Put the dog up/out if you have to to give the kid playtime while you work. Kids move in strange ways that dogs may not understand, kids tend to also read the dog's reactions poorly and not change their behavior when the dog is stressed or starting to become aggressive, and the consequences of an inter-species misunderstanding are very severe.

Tracy · #19 07/25/12, 04:04 PM

My insurance guy comes once a year to go over not only our home owners policy but also business policies. He has seen my very large dogs many times. The day he would tell me my dogs are a risk or raise my policy would be the day I would be getting different insurance.

As others have said. Start regulating the irresponsible pet owners that have no clue. Breed bans are not the way to do this.

Otter, you held your tongue better then I would have. Nice pit you have there

Haven · #20 07/25/12, 04:27 PM

These groups are filled with misinformed people and retired housewives with lap dogs wearing dresses. They no longer have kids at home to control and manage, so they want to get up in every pet owners face to push their ideology about their "furkids".. They usually have no real life working experience with dogs in any training or professional venue, other than a few "experts" they manage to pull out of the woodwork.

If they want to pass laws, they should be looking at the pet owners who turn these dogs neurotic...but we all know that is a dead end street.

Minelson · #21 07/25/12, 04:29 PM

At our vet clinic it's the dachshunds that bite the most. The problem is no warning! No growling, lifting the lip..just chomp! Grrrrr......
But for some reason we do see a lot of Dachshunds so maybe that is why....just the shear numbers that make it more common. All breeds have a potential to be biters. The sad thing is when you see someone come in with a puppy that is already showing aggression.

I have yet to have any problems with pit bulls or pit bull "type" dogs that come in. And we get a lot of those...more than the sneaky little Dachshunds!

On the other hand....one of the Dachshunds that boards at our place a lot is a wonderful little dog. I love him! When I go to pick him up to put him in the kennel he rolls over on his back for a belly rub!

gapeach · #22 07/25/12, 04:30 PM

I always get upset when this subject comes up. I never had a Pit but I had German Shepherds. About 12 yrs ago we moved to a condo for a couple of yrs. We shared custody of our GSD with our youngest son who purchased our house. We were traveling a lot then. We had to get our homeowner's insurance updated on the condo. The Ins. agent came over and saw our German Shepherd who would not bite a flea. He said he pretended that he never saw him because the company would consider him a dangerous breed.
I have grandchildren and I was so concerned that I never let the oldest ones around the GSD till they were about 5. When out 2 four yr olds are here now, I keep Sammi on a leash or put her in a crate with a bone. They move very fast and she wants to play with them. Her nails are sharp. I just don't take the risk of them being scratched.
Any time we took our GSDs anywhere people were always calling them "mean dog" which they were not at all. I hate when one breed gets attacked.
There are other cases though where people have aggressive dogs and they let them roam. Owners are always responsible for that dog.

Haven · #23 07/25/12, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter

If it hadn't happened to me, I wouldn't believe it. The conversation went;
"Where did you buy that Border Collie?" <admiring look>
"Oh, DD pulled him out from under a shed at a friend's house and gave him to me for Mother's day"
"So you don't know his breeding then?" <dismay>
"No, his mother looked as much like a heeler as he does a Border Collie"
"Oh. Well. I'm surprised you trust him then. You never know just what a mongrel has in them. Look how broad his forehead is. And his eyes. He looks a little pitty around the eyes to me."
Dumfounded silence, as I stare incredulously from this man to my narrow, typey, 27 pounds of long-legged Border Collie cross dog.
He continues, "Just to be safe, I'd have to put him down as a dangerous breed. He definitely looks like a pit bull around the eyes. Your insurance would cost more, but you'd get extra coverage if he bit someone..."

Not having wanted insurance in the first place, I asked him to leave. I was proud of myself for restraining myself from pointing out that the beagle wasn't purebred either, and not succumbing to the temptation to see if either of the dogs would bite.
I was reminded forcibly of the saying "lies, d*mn lies, and statistics"

And if he knew anything about dogs, he would know that herding breeds are much sharper and willing to communicate with bite compared to a Pit.

Possum Belly · #24 07/25/12, 04:36 PM

Well, some of the dogs I have seen look to be the assault rifle type and those types also have longer teeth that are capable of biting real fast and of course biting many people in a short period of time. These dogs need to be banned.

JasoninMN · #25 07/25/12, 05:00 PM

16,000 people die each year slipping in bath tubs, less then a 100 by dogs. Ban bath tubs!

Kwings · #26 07/25/12, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter

Pancho, you'll like this. A fellow came to my door to sell insurance (I hadn't realized till then they still do that!) and told me my dog Deacon looked "a little pitty around the eyes" and that house insurance would therefore cost more.

This is Deacon;

I once had an insurance drop me because i owned a full blooded German Shepard. It was all because i was mean to the insurance guy and he never even saw my dog.

Here she is.

She's a boxer/lab/pit mix. Mom was lab/pit, daddy was lab/boxer.

and vicious too let me tell ya! That poor bunny.

Otter · #27 07/25/12, 11:15 PM

LOL Kwings, your dog looks to have as much GSD as mine does pit! She has a sweet face.

Haven, out of all my dogs, Deacon is definitely the most likely to take a chunk out of someone. He may look like a BC, but he acts more like a heeler, he's fast, sharp and mouthy. And, he's nearsighted, so doesn't stand down without a command or a good smell of a person.
But he's well trained, kept inside a fence and if we go somewhere doesn't budge from my heel and is much more friendly and relaxed because he knows his job at the farm may be to guard, but in public it's to greet. He loved the fair last year. He got to greet grades K through 2 as they single-filed through the pig barn.

Kwings · #28 07/25/12, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter

LOL Kwings, your dog looks to have as much GSD as mine does pit! She has a sweet face.

Haven, out of all my dogs, Deacon is definitely the most likely to take a chunk out of someone. He may look like a BC, but he acts more like a heeler, he's fast, sharp and mouthy. And, he's nearsighted, so doesn't stand down without a command or a good smell of a person.
But he's well trained, kept inside a fence and if we go somewhere doesn't budge from my heel and is much more friendly and relaxed because he knows his job at the farm may be to guard, but in public it's to greet. He loved the fair last year. He got to greet grades K through 2 as they single-filed through the pig barn.

Thanks, she is such a sweetie. <3

romysbaskets · #29 07/26/12, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kwings

I once had an insurance drop me because i owned a full blooded German Shepard. It was all because i was mean to the insurance guy and he never even saw my dog.

Here she is.

She's a boxer/lab/pit mix. Mom was lab/pit, daddy was lab/boxer.

and vicious too let me tell ya! That poor bunny.

Wow is all I can say, how cute is this! None of our three dogs would be so nice to a bunny..how adorable....I have one dog that is a scary mouse/rat and yes, a total bunny killer. He is vicious to all rodents and a bunny is just a piece of meat in his eyes, they had better move out of my yard faster than he can run...and yes this guy can really move! Boy the insurance guys do not want to catch me with this scary dog! When a knock is apparent at my door, this guy is something to be reckoned with!!!!

But then I open the door and the laughter begins...this is the sweetest little 22 lb dog I have ever had. He lets my grandson sit on him. So much for appearances...but if they saw his prey or heard him through the door...they could not know this stuffed animal looking guy was on the other side.

Haven · #30 07/26/12, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minelson

At our vet clinic it's the dachshunds that bite the most. The problem is no warning! No growling, lifting the lip..just chomp! Grrrrr......
But for some reason we do see a lot of Dachshunds so maybe that is why....just the shear numbers that make it more common. All breeds have a potential to be biters. The sad thing is when you see someone come in with a puppy that is already showing aggression.

I have yet to have any problems with pit bulls or pit bull "type" dogs that come in. And we get a lot of those...more than the sneaky little Dachshunds!

On the other hand....one of the Dachshunds that boards at our place a lot is a wonderful little dog. I love him! When I go to pick him up to put him in the kennel he rolls over on his back for a belly rub!

Ahh yes, they are aggressive little things. Lots of childhood memories of my grandparents Dach lunging to attack me as I walked through the room. They are one of the breeds that need to be muzzled frequently for grooms.