Give Me Info on "Shock" Collars For Training.

[Kwings]

What info can you guys give me about training a dog using one of those shock collars or remote collars. I saw someone ask about prices on them here a few days ago which got me interested in them. I did a bit of research and liked what I saw. When i think of those shock collars i think of things like bark collars and people misusing and abusing their pets with them, then i ran into a bunch of you tube videos where an unruly dog is trained with one, in a non abusive manner and he didn't appear to be in any pain or anything like that.


My main question is:

What is the youngest you can start training a dog this way? obviously you might not want to strap one of these collars around an 8 week old puppy's neck but what age is OK to start? is 6 or 7 months old too young?

[wolffeathers]

What kind of training are you looking to do? Obedience? Behavioral correction?

I have used shock collars on my dogs to correct the occasional behavioral problems, like livestock chasing, climbing through the garden fence to dig in the freshly planted flowers, sneaking out through the gate when it was left open. These are behaviors that the dogs won't do when I'm present, but wait until they are unattended and think they're being sly. I've lost many dogs to the road, when the gate mysteriously came open in the night. Now, even my Great Pyr/Komondor pup will sleep just inside the gate when the last person in at night, forgot to close it.

I have never used a shock collar for obedience type training, never needed it. Maybe someone here has and can give you the information and you their opinion.

What type of experience do you have training dogs? I only ask because I wouldn't suggest shock collars for obedience for an inexperienced person. I use the collars myself to train dogs to not rush through the gate(so if it's ever left open, they don't wander off) or chase livestock(when I'm 'not' there of course). My personal experience with the collars is they aren't needed for obedience(sit, don't jump, etc, etc) and I think in inexperienced hands they can be disasterous. Like giving someone a lunge whip or a set of spurs and tell them to train their horse with it, they have their purpose and are useful tools in the right hands, but in the wrong or inexperienced hands, they cause more trouble than solve. (I have a horse that absolutely loses his mind if he even thinks someone has a lunge whip(fishing poles too). Lots of desensitizing later, he's better but still gets pretty anxious.)

[SquashNut]

We had one that shocked when they barked. My dog still barks and she is 4. I ended teaching her to go in the house on comand. Since she didn't bark inside the house this worked. She would stop barking and stand at the door waiting for me to let her in. problem solved.

[momof2birds]

I put the vibrate/shock collar on the dog at 4 1/2 mos and it works very well, turning him away from annoying the chickens. I rarely have to use the shock button.

[beccachow]

My chow (he IS a chow, after all!) ran THROUGH the shocks...they only served to make him run FASTER away from me when he shoved through the door. I had to go back to the very very basics of training to keep him from crowding the door to start with, he wouldn't stop crowding the door witht he shock collar, either. It took longer, and he STILL likes to think he is slick, but the shock collar just didn't work for him. He was smart enough to realize that *I* was the one shocking him, and he wanted to be away from ME.

[mothernature]

The fastest way to ruin a good dog!

[VA Shepherd]

I like them with the underground fences, but a shock collar for training doesn't work for all dogs. Our dog is incredibly submissive, and a huge wimp. My father was convinced he could train her with one (he wanted her to hunt ducks, but she's afraid of water and feathers), but the first time he tried to use it she yelped, jumped about 4 feet in the air, and ran as fast as she could to the door to lie quivering on the stoop until I let her in. She wouldn't go near him for a week.

I am not a fan.

Know your dog before you try it. It may backfire.

[lauriej57]

The shock collars do depend on the dog, they work for some and not for others. They also work for some things and not for others.

I have innotek collars that range up to 2000 ft, but I believe they only work up to 1000 ft.

I bought them about 5 years ago, when my male boxer decided he wanted to chase cars, or rather trucks, the louder they were, the more he chased them. Worked very well for him.

The ones I have, have a tone that you can use for a warning, or to use for overall training. They also have, I believe, it's a 10 second abuse clause, after holding the shock function for 10 seconds, it shuts down for 10 seconds.

My current boxer, it sometimes works for him. If he gets near the chickens, it will work as long as they don't run. If they start running, it's all over. Some dogs, more than others, have a huge tolerance when they are focused on something, and they ignore just about anything.

I have a boxer/shepherd mixed female, and the collar, or rather the remote, causes her great fear. All she needs to see is the remote, and she's done in. Lays by the door wanting to go in, to afraid to do anything, and this is without the collar being on her. She associates the shock with the remote, even though I was very careful in the beginning to train with her, without me and the remote being in site. But she's also very smart and catches on to the little things.

When a good friend of ours passed away, we inherited his Jack Russel for awhile, and she would run off all the time. Even though the collar was to big, I put it on her, and she hated it. She would sit down and not move. After that, anytime she ran off, I would put one of my puppy collars from the boxers on over her regular collar...she learned that she wouldn't get shocked, but she behaved and stayed within the boundaries of our 2 acres.

Shock collars can work very well, but it all depends on the dogs, and you have to watch how the dog reacts. My collars have 10 different levels of shock, we tested them on my hubby, and he can't handle more than the 7th level, and that's with it in his hand.

My 5 year old female boxer, she's the best dog ever, but she used to like to run off and not come back. 2 times with a shock of 5 , and she was cured. About once a year, she decides to run off, the next time out, we put the collar on, let her her the tone, and she's cured.

I haven't used the collars in over a year, the 2 girls don't need it, and it really doesn't help with the 2 boys.
I did use the tone function often during when I was training the boys to heel. It helped alot. In the beginning, I started out with the tone, then the shock on the lowest level.

If I could do it all over again, I would've saved the $300 and borrowed one from a friend to check it out.

Whatever you decide, watch the videos that usually come with them.

[Maura]

Using a shock collar is aversive training. As in DON"T do that. Don't run through the gate, don't chase livestock. For obedience training, clicker works very well and you can get very distinct behaviors. I know some people swear by them, but unless you have very very good timing, you know what you are doing, and your dog is not overly sensitive, try something else.

[Goatress]

I came really close to buying one for an LGD I had who was impossible to correct otherwise (aggressive goat mauling and chasing) and traditional methods produced no results after months of work and trying. I think for correcting bad behavior it might have its place but must be used prudently. I never did get one so can't speak from experience but have heard some say they got awesome results when all else had failed...

[Bearfootfarm]

I've had good results with several dogs.
I use it to stop bad behavior and most times it's only taken a couple of sessions to end the problems

[beccachow]

I really have to say, it depends on the dog. My breed is a genuinely stubborn breed, single minded when they get "a notion." I recall CJ (rest his soul)would run through the shocks of the electric-collar fencing without even slowing down. Scooter (rest in peace) would wait until he wasn't wearing a collar and take off. Cricket (doofus) runs away from the remote. Chows aren't dumb as some believe, they are actually VERY smart and stubborn; that is why I am not sure the collars are right for them.

I would be curious to see all the breeds and experiences with shock type training. I can say, with 100% accuracy, it was a fail on all 3 chows. Duke never needed it, he sticks close to us without it. In fact, we never even trained him to stay, he just does (Duke is a GSD).

[billfosburgh]

like i said in another post, i use mine daily. they are a great tool, BUT in the wrong hands can ruin a dog. mine have tone features on them. i use the tone more than the shock once the dog knows what is expected. most problems come from incorrect & over use. as i said they are a tool,not an instant cure for every problem a dog has.
i show & hunt beagles & in field trials your dog must handle good & not run off game. that is my primary use for a collar. i have broke my GSP from killing chickens with them.
they are not a substitute for spending time teaching your dog the basics

[brody]

not a fan of them here

[JasoninMN]

Shock collars were developed to enforce behaviors that have already been trained. What they were not meant for is to just slap them on the dog and start zapping them like is most often done. If your dogs not listening to you in the first place, with out the collar on, you have a problem with your training techniques. They have probably become the most misused training tools out there and create more problems then fix. Its amazing how 25 years ago people trained dogs with out them, now days to keep your dog in the yard you get an invisible fence, to stop it from barking you get a bark collar, and then to make it obey commands it doesn't know because its never been taught you get a remote trainer and zap it some more. Pretty soon dog has 3 shock collars on it and yes I have seen this more times then should ever be necessary. I am not totally against them but do not believe they belong in the average pet owners hands. I see them too often used out of frustration or as a "quick fix" versus being used for actual training.

[Bearfootfarm]

If your dogs not listening to you in the first place, with out the collar on, you have a problem with your training techniques.

You can't correct behavior that they won't do in your presence

With a collar you CAN do it since you "aren't there"

[SFM in KY]

I've only used a shock collar on one dog, a Rottweiler with extensive obediance training that went just fine until I took him off the 25' 'long line' and went completely off leash. He figured out that over 40 feet or so he was out of 'long line' distance and safe, couldn't correct him without walking him down and I had to fix the problem as he would chase livestock. Not aggressively, but he could certainly have gotten kicked and injured.

I only had to correct him once. I had him off leash, he saw the horses, I let him get about halfway across the paddock and called him ... he ignored me totally other than glancing over his shoulder at me. I hit the button, he got shocked and the next stride he took he was on his way back to me. I put the collar on him for quite some time after that but he absolutely never offered to not come when called again.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by mothernature

The fastest way to ruin a good dog!

Totally agree.

[Bearfootfarm]

Originally Posted by mothernature
The fastest way to ruin a good dog!

Totally agree.

If it were truly a "good dog" you wouldn't need the collar in the first place

[oregon woodsmok]

You can't train a dog with a shock collar. You have to train the dog with obedience lessons (of your choice). The collar is to let the dog know that, yes, you really can reach him way out there in the field. It's to let him know he still can't do it even if he can't see you. It's to make self rewarding behavior much less rewarding (livestock chasing)

But you can shock a dog into unconsciousness and he still won't learn to climb a ladder. If you want him to climb a ladder, you have to teach him how to climb the ladder. Same for anything. You can't shock him into coming when he is called if you first do not teach him what "come" means. Or any other thing you want him to do. He has to know what the command means before the shock collar will get you that behavior.

And hey... if you have taught him what the command means, you probably won't need the collar. Unless he thinks that you can't reach him way out there in the field, or he doesn't care if it makes you unhappy when he kills chickens. Then, a shock collar might be useful,