Labs

[Haven]

Has anyone been around well bred Labs from a show kennel? If so, can you describe their temperament?

Just got done working on yet another insane Lab and I realise that they are incredibly overbred but, wow. This one is 8 years old and literally bouncing off the walls, knocking things over with it's tail, acting all wild eyed and whacky. It sounds like a meat-mouthed bullfrog every time it pants - probably collapsed it's trachea over the years from going wild on the leash. I had to roll it over and literally lay on top of it to hold it still enough to attempt to even brush it; it's entire body is just vibrating with over the top energy. This is VERY common in Labs around here and I am wondering if they are being bred like this all over, and how much the show lines differ in temperament.

I couldn't live with one.

[Wolf Flower]

I think the show-bred Labs tend to be mellower. At least the ones I've been around.

[bluemoonluck]

There is a big difference between show labs and field/working labs.... this is something that's been irritating the Lab people for a while, because they really are developing into 2 very distinctive types from what I hear.

Show-bred labs are usually laid-back couch potatoes.

Field/Working labs are much more energetic, they can go hunting all day without losing steam.

BYB labs can go either way, it depends

[oregon woodsmok]

That's not anything to do with dog showing. That's just Labs. A small percentage of them are sociopaths, and it doesn't seem to matter what the background is.

The ones that I have known that were untrainable crazy happened to all be pale blond. I don't know if color has anything to do with it.

I agreed to "puppy walk" for the guide dogs for the blind. They had a young male that the original puppy walker refused to deal with any more. Because I had trained many obedience dogs, they thought I would be perfect for him.

This was a specially bred puppy from Guide Dogs for the Blind. How bad could he be?

Well, that dog came flying out of the back of the pickup, hit the end of his leash going about 30 mph. He flew up into the air and slammed down on his back.

Then he got up, took another running start at it and flew up into the air when he hit the end of his leash, and slammed down onto his back.

The fourth time he slammed down onto his back, I thought to myself. "Uh-oh. We're in trouble now."

That dog would climb up the front of anyone he saw, clawing and digging with his toenails. He'd fight with you as you were trying to pull him off people. Hey, at least he was friendly. The supervisor wanted me to take him into restaurants. Holy cow, I can just see it: tables flying, dishes broken, people knocked out of their chairs, waitresses tripped.

I spent 45 minutes, literally by the clock, trying to walk him past a potato chip on the sidewalk without trying to grab it and eat it. I was afraid I was going to get arrested as I walked him back and forth, telling him "leave it" as he tried to strangle himself.

Finally, I got him past the potato chip and 10 feet later he dived on a piece of gum and we did it all over. I was in tears and he remembered nothing of the lesson.

I finally, after months of multiple training sessions every day, got him to come when he was on a 6 foot leash and sit for about 5 seconds. Off leash, forget it. I sure felt sorry for the unfortunate blind person who got stuck with him a s a guide dog.

[jen74145]

I don't know whether I should laugh or not, Oregon!

We had a lab. Just a puppy we found stray, very handsome, never claimed.

Never. Ever. Again.

He was so sweet and SO stupid. I once had to swim out into the lake after him when he swam out too far and was going under in distress. Human saves labrador from drowning, yeesh.

Then there was the swiping of sharp things and running gleefully with them, me about to have a coronary watching. And the getting stuck in the tiny fence opening and trying to strangle himself. And the "Oh boy, big snarling bulldog wants to play! *galumph over to say hello*" He licked hotwire for fun a few times. I think Disney's Goofy must have been based on a labrador.

I taught him the basics, with many bits of frozen heart/chopped hot dog. But I about ripped my head bald doing it.

My friend had a female, equally dense but not quite as energetic as my boy, and a bit more cautious. I have knonw them of all colors, but it seems to mostly be the boys that are, uh... well, y'know.

I'll say, my boy... the presence of a wiser dog helped immensely. He could imitate the cool kid and stay out of danger, lol.

I figure only breeding the sane ones could go a long way. I wound up at someone's house where they had a litter of pups and the mother was alright, nothing special but an okay dog. The father? Oh no, he was a big yellow galloping idiot. And BIG, and about flattened me in his happiness. They tried to get us to take a puppy. I probably left a dustcloud behind me I ran away so fast!

[lamoncha lover]

I love labs. We had a huge black lab that my dad hunted when I was a kid. Used to be the babysitter. Anytime I would step off the curb he would grab me by my diaper and pull me back off the road. He also was a great protector. Instinctively knew who to intimidate. Like drunks who decided to knock on the door when my parents were out.
I now have a red lab named moose. And a chocolate lab named Isabella. Isabella is the most loyal sweet dog in the world. Follows me everywhere. Never leaves my side. Walks past chickens, never gets into trouble.
Moose is probably 90 pounds at 8 months. He is calm and very smart. He learned to sit, down, and bang bang you are dead in about 5 minutes. And he retained it for a month with no practice. He is a fetching machine.
Too bad my computer crashed and I lost all the pictures as I would love to show him off.
As I said I ove labs. You are bound to find a numbskull occasionally in any breed

[TedH71]

Show labs tend to be stocky. The field bred labs tend to be lighter and faster. The lab that my wife found as a 8 week old pup has matured to be a 90 lb vacuum machine...he is on a diet right now because yesterday he ate half of 50 lb bag of dog food! He's stocky but extremely stubborn.

[derm]

The problem I am finding with Labs(and I love them) as well as almost every other large breed is that people dont realize that they need to be worked and ran hard every day. Most of my clients get them, put them in a crate while they work, then take them for a walk around the block and wonder why they chew the drywall off the side of the walls. This breed(and others) needs to run around for hours every day so they can sleep at night.

[wolffeathers]

If it looks lean bred and has a deep chest and has a leggy look to it with a narrow face, it's probably a field bred lab. They are the more common variety(most common found in the pounds and adoptions). They are endurance working dogs. High energy.

I think they are called field bred and some even call them "American Labs" versus English labs. I prefer the look of the "English" or "benchbred" labs myself and I've been told I would prefer their temperment as well. Since they still have working background, it's not quite as high energy as the American or field bred. My neighbor had an English bred and it was a doll, it passed away just to the other day at the age of 15 years old. It had that great stocky build(love it) and was a big couch potato for the most part, until you broke out the stick or toy. Duke would play extreme fetch for hours(much longer than you could throw the 'stick'), but wasn't that spastic energy a lot of field labs have.

Field labs need bounderies early and most importantly LOTS and LOTS of EXCERCISE! They have endless amounts of energy and when penned up in a house like a "normal" house dog, it turns destructive and quick.(which unfortunately I think lands a lot of them in the pound, but that's why there are a lot of rescue programs that can walk into a pound and rescue a field lab and turn it into an actual working dog(search and rescue, service, etc).

[lamoncha lover]

he is out of grand champion lines...i couldnt be happier. Whats NOT to love? These he was about 6 months old

[longshadowfarms]

Originally Posted by oregon woodsmok

I sure felt sorry for the unfortunate blind person who got stuck with him a s a guide dog.

Not to worry. He would never actually pass through the testing far enough to be with a person in need. I have a friend whose dog went through VERY rare repeat training in order to try to get him to pass but it was because he was soooooo good, not because he was a problem. They don't get that chance when they aren't that good. This one would not disobey, even if the situation was unsafe. All guiding eye programs are not created equal though and I too have run across a couple that I'd never want in my home.

I think the problem with Labs is that they are too popular. Too many people breeding because someone will buy them, not really focusing on temperament. I see way too many from field lines in homes and that's a huge problem. Field bred dogs are bred to work and work and work and work... That doesn't go well in a home where they are expected to lay around all day doing nothing. I'll always lean toward show lines for that very reason, but even then, you still need to be very careful. I have a good friend who has bred Labs for a bazillion years but I KNOW for a fact that she likes one line because they are easy whelp-ers. I can't stand the temperament of those dogs! She has her own "house dog" favorite line but they are mostly black and most people want yellow, preferably very light colored yellow. She's breeding for the demand unfortunately and people aren't smart enough to pick a family dog based on temperament, not color. I don't agree with her breeding practices, but she's providing what people want.

Our Labs in years back were AWESOME! They were smart, never hated anyone (so much so that our vet's wife always wanted to come get some Brant lovin' whenever he was in the office), great hunters, easy going, just great all around dogs. Our current Lab isn't bad. He's more high strung than any of the others were but he's from dual purpose lines (hunting and show) and was kenneled until he was 6 months old when we got him. Hard to say if his over-protectiveness is from lack of socialization or breeding. He'd NEVER hurt anyone in our family (even an ornery kid that has kicked him) but his instinct is to attack first and ask questions later with anyone outside the family. So yes, I'm sort of biased toward GOOD Labs, but I also agree that it seems to get harder all the time to find the good ones. Not sure if all of these pics will post or not...

Current Lab:


The amazing Brant who was OFA excellent:


Piper, who we bred twice before deciding it was too hard to stomach all the worries.



And another


Josh and Jesse, Pipers sons that we eventually inherited when their owner died of cancer.


One of our "granddogs"

[ejagno]

I've been a black lab owner for the better part of 18 years now. My older lab (16 years old) passed away last winter and DH replaced her with two 5 week old puppies a few months ago. If a lab is not excersized enough they will act totally spastic and hyperactive. Yesterday DH had surgery and what was suppose to be a simple surgery turned into a 10 hour stay at the hospital. By the time we returned both dogs were just crazy with excitement, anxiety,and literally bouncing off of everything. After playing and running with them for a few hours they settled down and returned to their normal selves of gently running and obeying commands and playng. I try to let them run a minimum of 4 hours per day broken up into 1 hour segments throughout the day. They remain gentle and playful without being total insanely hyper.

Their parents were both championship breeds but my older one wasn't that I know of. I don't think it makes a difference in my opinion other than size. These two are much broader in the jaws and chest it seems, and will be taller than my older one.

[JasoninMN]

My lab falls between the show lines and field trail lines. I find neither to be the ideal lab and like a mix of the two. A well bred lab is versatile, intelligent and trainable. Mine knows and obeys a ton of commands voice and hand. She hunts grouse and waterfowl, yet never touches my free ranging poultry. She is trained to shed hunt and can identify numerous objects by name and retrieve them. Examples would be my keys, phone, drill, rake, shovel, hammer, pop, etc. Its like having a third hand around.

Registered name : Mando's Mudd Puppy.









Training to shed hunt at 4 months old

http:
//www.flickr.com/photos/37406732@N08/5192426650/

Shed hunting last winter antler under a foot of snow.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/5045143...in/photostream


Fetching my drill for me.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/5045143...in/photostream

[Haven]

The reason I mentioned the old one that i just encountered was because usually dogs will start calming down a bit after 2 years of age. Not the case with many of these dogs. This one is also a dog that runs outside all day, so pent up energy isn't an issue. Ironically the absolute best, calmest one I work with is tall, leggy and unregistered and comes from an amish breeder.

The Labs I see at shows all seem very calm wich is why I wondered if anyone was experienced with them. They almost seem to be going down the same path Cockers went down years ago as far as temperaments go. The newspapers around here are filled with lab litters for 150.00 per pup. Pit Bulls are right up there with them in the papers.

Jason, that muddy puppy pic is adorable!

[sherry in Maine]

The photos on this thread are wonderful!
I have owned a lab mix long ago, but never a full bred lab. I loved mine.

thanks for the photos.

[ginnie5]

Originally Posted by oregon woodsmok

A small percentage of them are sociopaths, and it doesn't seem to matter what the background is.

The ones that I have known that were untrainable crazy happened to all be pale blond. I don't know if color has anything to do with it.

That is so interesting. Labs are dh's favorite dog. We had them or lab mixes for years. The last one though I got rid of. Absolutely could NOT keep him in a fence..he chewed through chain link several times. I finally broke down and put him on a cable run. He broke that steel cable. The last straw was when we had a new baby.....there was just a look in his eyes that scared the daylights out of me. He was a pale blonde. We'd always had the darker blondes and they were fine.....stupid hyper but fine. After that one though I won't have another lab. I just can't keep up with their energy level.

[JasoninMN]

When ever people start breeding for color, temperament is often lost. I think labs have probably gone through more color and type trends then any other breed. There is always a new flavor of the year that people want. They come in three colors and that is yellow, chocolate and black. A few years ago "ivory labs" were the huge craze that everyone had to have. Then is was "white" labs and now the craze is fox red labs. These trends cause pups to be mass produced to fill that pet market. Whether they are "ivory" "white" or "fox red" they are still yellow labs and people tend to forget that. They pay extra money for the shade of color they want but forget about health and temperament screening. Silver labs are gaining momentum as well. Neither the show crowd nor the field crowd is embracing this color which is registered as chocolate so the majority of the dogs being bred have poor confirmation, have never had their temperaments tested in anything and most often lack health clearances. People will still buy these pups no matter how nuts the parents are because they are a cool color and they will pay large fees for them. Another hot trend in labs right now are British labs which are small labs. Huge labs used to be in favor and now people are seeking the British type. It seems like in America if you attach a foreign name to a line of dogs suddenly the value jumps up. Many of the British labs don't even have a import dog in their 6 generation pedigree and I have never heard one bark with a accent so I have no idea how they suddenly became British. The cycle will go on and on and on so there will always be extreme variation in the breed.

[Cannon_Farms]

[IMG][/IMG]

I have one of the best labs ever, very laid back and mellow, his brother is psychotic both are nice looking byb dogs but how you can go from one extream to the other is odd.
I can say most labs are on a high corn diet, and much like a two year old with free choice candy they keep a sugar rush. I had one dog come in and it took about 3 months on a no corn diet she went from being wild to being not calm but a heck of allot better.
Couldnt resits posting this picture.

[bluemoonluck]

Originally Posted by longshadowfarms

I have a good friend who has bred Labs for a bazillion years but I KNOW for a fact that she likes one line because they are easy whelp-ers. I can't stand the temperament of those dogs! She has her own "house dog" favorite line but they are mostly black and most people want yellow, preferably very light colored yellow. She's breeding for the demand unfortunately and people aren't smart enough to pick a family dog based on temperament, not color. I don't agree with her breeding practices, but she's providing what people want.

I have this problem all the time! I get a lot of people on my waiting list who are insistent on a certain color for some reason.

For example, I've had people looking for a more laid-back dog, they have cats and small children, small yard, etc. But when I temperament test the pups and offer them one that has the temperament they're looking for, I get "but we really wanted a red one. Can't we get one of your red pups instead of the white one you offered us?" I can explain that the red pups are more terrier type and they're temperament doesn't match what the potential buyer said they wanted, and more often then not I get "That's okay, we'd still rather have the red one." They get mighty irritated when I tell them that I won't sell them a pup that has a temperament that does not match their family situation......

I don't understand why people so often are eager to get a dog that has a temperament that doesn't match their lifestyle, just because they'd rather have a dog that is one color over another.

Personally I dislike the solid white dogs, mainly because they are a total pain to groom for the show ring - one speck of dirt sticks out like a sore thumb. But I have to look at temperament, conformation, attitude, health, etc of the dog and ignore the color when I'm deciding which pup in a litter to keep, and which pups from outside lines that I purchase.

[Wolf Flower]

I got lucky this time around--the right pup for me just happened to be my favorite color--dark sable.



Pretty color can be very seductive. I once got a pup that was that lovely black sable I wanted. I didn't choose that particular pup based on color--I went with the breeder's recommendation--but I was looking at litters based on the color I wanted, plus all the other working titles, health clearances, etc.



I made a mistake. That pup was altogether wrong for me. While she was drop-dead gorgeous, she was SUCH an airhead... so hyper she spun in circles. She was a confident pup that loved every person and dog she met, but had the attention span of a gnat, and she was so spazzed out over my cats that I simply couldn't live with her--she never harmed my cats, but the way she looked at them, stalked them, and chased them, I never quite trusted her. I re-homed her to a competitive Schutzhund home, the new owner had 4 other dogs and no cats.

Wait, this thread is about labs! Sorry!