Would You Do It??

beccachow · #1 04/26/11, 07:28 PM

DH and I are mulling over where to get a new German Sheperd puppy from. We contacted Duke's breeder...we had gotten Duke for a steal 11 or 12 years back, because his ear was crinkled from a large litter (no WOMB in there....bwahhahahaha). But I got to meet his dad (the only dog I had ever met that made me stop for a second, though he was all tail wagging and eager to make friends) and his mom; his dad was the only sheperd I had met before or since that was bigger than Duke. DOg's head was the size of a cement block. And Duke?

You all almost know DUke personally by now. His personality, unparralleled...his loyalty, his laid back personality. He STILL meets everyone with a toy in his mouth. Never bared teeth, tolerated everything and everyone. Seemed to automatically know all commands, we never taught him a thing yet I can walk him all over this farm, no leash required. I LOVE the huge size of him. In short, he sold me on the breed. His persistence and invincible nature are well known around here by now! Strong and loyal animal.

Now the bad news...the woman I got DUke from has gotten quite popular; she imports all her sires and bitches from Austria. All her dogs are bloodlines plus, all form high quality Shutzhund (spelling)...whatever that fighting thing is they do with them in Germany. I don't care about that, I have no use for a puppy other than for a pet/companion/watchdog. The down side to it all...her pups start at $2500. I asked her to keep me in mind for any "pet quality" pups she had, like DUke was, she still says her prices start at $2500 but that she would keep me in mind.

Duke SHOULD have been a $2000 dog back in the day, but his ear rendered him useless to her, she couldn't breed him because he sort of muddied the waters with the goofy ear, even though it wasn't a defect. But to someone who wanted to see him, they would see that and might think his bloodlines less then perfect.

DOn't flame me for wanting a purebred, we have rescued EVERYTHING around here including a goat, a sheep, a bird, a rabbit, a horse, and we aren't closed to dog rescuing, it's just they don't fall into our laps they way they seem to for everyone else. We will most likely be visiting the SPCA after Scooter does...whatever Scooter is going to do. But the heart wants what the heart wants. I will always have a purebred chow around here, DH will always have a sheperd. The rest of the pack is quite flexible.

So...if you knew the breeder, if you trusted her dogs, WOULD you do this? She still is proud to say she breeds for strong, big and sturdy GSD like Duke is. Other purebred sheperds run for $1500+ around here, and I DON'T know them, and they aren't expected to top at 130 to 140 pounds like big boy here (did I mention I LOVE that??) GSD rescue agencies aren't as local and DH wants to pick out his own, or BE picked as Duke did to us. Also, they want you to sign agreements for training and so forth...DH and I would like to be the judges of that. Soooo...

Round the track and back to square one. WOuld you pay $2500 for a show quality dog that is only going to be a pet?

Our Little Farm · #2 04/26/11, 07:37 PM

Have you looked at http://newsketemonks.com/dogs.htm?
Not sure of their prices.

Our Little Farm · #3 04/26/11, 07:40 PM

I would go and see her dogs. You may or may not like what you see. It's a lot of money, but getting the right dog is important too.

SFM in KY · #4 04/26/11, 07:47 PM

Are the bloodlines of her current dogs very similar to Duke's bloodlines or are her current lines more heavily bred into the Schutzhund lines?

If they are the same as you have with Duke, then you obviously like him and he suits you. At that point, I think you simply have to decide if a 'close relative' is likely to be exactly what you want and decide if you are willing to pay that much for one.

If there are different lines, in particular lines that have been bred closer to the imported, Schutzhubnd lines, you may not have the same temperaments in the new puppy.

I raised Rottweilers for 20 years and toward the end of my Rott breeding years, breeders were getting very heavily into that scenario with the breed. Many of those lines were too 'sharp' for what Americans were used to dealing with ... the temperaments can be different. If Duke comes from those lines you obviously like what he is. But I would really, really look at an extended pedigree on both Duke and a prospective new puppy and see what it looks like on paper before making a decision.

HOTW · #5 04/26/11, 08:07 PM

I agree withSFM, if the lines are different you won't get another Duke. If I had a great owner wanting a pup I would place in a sec.I pln on not being so invovled n bloodlines and all to cut off mynose. If a good home was available for a pup I would place it for the home not so much the money, espif I could afford to let pup go for less if the rest of th elitter was sold.

#6 04/26/11, 08:07 PM

If it were me, I'd take a smaller amount of money for transportation and adopt Bostonlesley's shepherd/lab mix..LOL...

beccachow · #7 04/26/11, 08:15 PM

Interesting. SHe had told me she hadn't heard from anyone who had DUke's parents in a long time...wonder if that means she has all new bloodlines???? VERY good point. Duke is such a laid back clown I take for granted what damage he COULD do if his personality was a tiny bit different.

BL, if s/he is still available after Scooter umm...does whatever Scooter is going to do, I will have room for a third. That actually sounds like a great mix.

OLF, says they don't have any pups right now, but I bookmarked the site.

laughaha · #8 04/26/11, 08:26 PM

Honestly, I would find a different breeder. Schutzhund dogs are EXTREMELY HIGH ENERGY/DRIVE/TEMPERAMENT and it doesn't sound like that's what you want. American show line shepherds are very VERY different dogs than schutzhund dogs. Although Duke came from a HUGE GSD..........he was still from showlines (from what I'm hearing). If it's a good breeder that you could trust to give you the lowest drive/least likely schutzhund candidate then you may get a dog that's only about 1 1/2 times more hyper/driven than duke. Show lines and working lines of GSD are almost to the point of being separate breeds of dog.

Do you know if she has white GSD's that have the schutzhund temperament? If so, please let me know who she is. I'd gladly pay that much (mainly cuz it's almost unheard of in the US).

Oh, and most Schutzhund dogs aren't show quality- Schutzhund dogs are from working lines, their value is based on much different things than show quality dogs are.

So you're question really is- Should I pay $2500 for a pet quality dog that is gonna be very hyper/driven/focused when all I want is a pet, not a working dog.

My answer is no, mainly because you are (most likely) not going to get what you want (a temperament like Duke's). My suggestion is that you find another great breeder who is focused on what you are looking for (show quality lines but stunningly gorgeous pet quality dog).

beccachow · #9 04/26/11, 08:37 PM

Duke's parents were Shutzhund; but I understand fully what you guys are getting at, and will certainly expand my search. Now I understand when I emailed her back and descirbed Duke's ordeal, she said he sounded like one in a million and that I might never find another like him.

I never thought of show quality and Shutzhund as being different, but

I would bet they are!!! Laughaha, I'll PM you the link. Her dogs are beautiful, but I have never seen a white one on her links.

SFM in KY · #10 04/26/11, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beccachow

I never thought of show quality and Shutzhund as being different, but

I would bet they are!!!

I don't know about the GSD but I do know that in the Rottweiler, years ago when I was involved, the American show lines and the German Schutzhund lines were quite different. I suspect that the GSD may be as well. I also knew a Doberman breeder years ago who had German Schutzhund lines and they would not have been competitive in the American show ring either. You're talking, generally, about quite different temperaments and some differences in conformation as well.

beccachow · #11 04/26/11, 09:08 PM

I know that I always liked Duke's build better, recall we were talking about those sloping backs a few weeks ago? DUke has a nice, nearly straight back. That might be the difference in conformation.

It really is like a game of Roll the Dice, isn't it? So I could pretty much pay a bunch of money I don't have, to take the risk that I might get a dog I don't like as much. I might be better off with a smaller breeder after all. As long as they X Ray those hips.

Here is her website: http://www.mistyridge.com/ She really is a nice lady and her dogs are all high quailty.

NorCalChicks · #12 04/26/11, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFM in KY

Are the bloodlines of her current dogs very similar to Duke's bloodlines or are her current lines more heavily bred into the Schutzhund lines?

If they are the same as you have with Duke, then you obviously like him and he suits you. At that point, I think you simply have to decide if a 'close relative' is likely to be exactly what you want and decide if you are willing to pay that much for one.

If there are different lines, in particular lines that have been bred closer to the imported, Schutzhubnd lines, you may not have the same temperaments in the new puppy.

I raised Rottweilers for 20 years and toward the end of my Rott breeding years, breeders were getting very heavily into that scenario with the breed. Many of those lines were too 'sharp' for what Americans were used to dealing with ... the temperaments can be different. If Duke comes from those lines you obviously like what he is. But I would really, really look at an extended pedigree on both Duke and a prospective new puppy and see what it looks like on paper before making a decision.

Excellent advice there! If you do want to go with the same breeder maybe you can ask for their breeding schedule so you can plan ahead and sock away funds a bit at a time. If you were looking for Dobies I could help you out!

Oh well - Good Luck!

Haven · #13 04/26/11, 10:48 PM

I think you may have better luck finding what you want by sticking with this kennel because it looks like she has a fair amount of dogs and is actively breeding. If you tell her a few basic things you are looking for in the dog as far as temperament, etc., she should be able to fit you with the right dog when it comes along.

If you begin searching for another breeder, you may or may not find one, and it may take a long time. Plus you already got one nice dog from her.

When I buy a showdog I will search for the right breeder with the right pedigree and wait forever for the right dog if i have to.

When I buy a pet, I prefer a breeder with a large amount of dogs to choose from so I can find the puppy or adult that will be a perfect family member for me. This isn't always possible with breeders who may have only a few dogs and maybe 1 litter per year. The nice thing about some of the larger working breed kennels is that they often have puppies, imports, teenagers or adults for sale - which will help get you fitted with the right dog...compared to a show kennel that may rarely have a litter on the ground.

Wolf Flower · #14 04/26/11, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beccachow

She still is proud to say she breeds for strong, big and sturdy GSD like Duke is. Other purebred sheperds run for $1500+ around here, and I DON'T know them, and they aren't expected to top at 130 to 140 pounds like big boy here (did I mention I LOVE that??)

Not that it matters since you just want a companion, but 130-140 lb GSDs are WAY over the standard in terms of size--that is about twice the size they are supposed to be. I personally wouldn't patronize a breeder that deliberately breeds dogs that far out of standard, especially when they are asking twice as much as everyone else.

Quote:

Round the track and back to square one. WOuld you pay $2500 for a show quality dog that is only going to be a pet?

No, I wouldn't.

As the others mentioned, the breeder is probably using different bloodlines and the dogs she has now are probably going to be very different than your Duke.

The breeder of my GSDs has a new litter on the ground right now, I can give you her contact info if you want. Her pups are about half the price of the ones you are looking at, but she breeds to the standard so her dogs will be 60-75 lb, not the monster-sized brutes you like.

They are working line GSDs so they will need training and a job, but I cannot say enough good things about this breeder and the dogs she has produced. She is out here in California but she does ship pups.

Wolf Flower · #15 04/26/11, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beccachow

Here is her website: http://www.mistyridge.com/ She really is a nice lady and her dogs are all high quailty.

Looks like she has some good bloodlines, and certainly some beautiful dogs, but it looks like she has longcoats in her breeding program. Technically you're not supposed to breed longcoats.

**Ross** · #16 04/26/11, 11:51 PM

I'd certainly pay for something trainable thats not going to fall apart. I kinda like the long coats too but that's just me.

longshadowfarms · #17 04/27/11, 12:10 AM

I don't know a lot about GSDs but a friend was recently in a similar situation as you. After a TON of research (she's an experienced breeder researcher) she ended up with a Shiloh Shepherd from this breeder http://www.ridgewoodshilohs.com/ and has been thrilled with his temperament so far. He's about 15 months, from the Haley/Sage breeding. Her blog hasn't been updated lately but bazillions of pictures - loved the ones here of Bosker (Shiloh) playing with another young pup: http://bringingupkedge.blogspot.com/...1_archive.html

JasoninMN · #18 04/27/11, 12:11 AM

Would I pay that for a dog? Yeah if it doesn't break the bank and its really the dog I want. Your the only one who can decide if its worth it or not.

Haven · #19 04/27/11, 07:03 AM

I missed the part about 2k for a pet...ouch. Imo, that is a very steep price, especially for a pet puppy.

Would I pay it? Sure, if I really wanted that particular dog from that particular breeder and had the disposable income lying around. I would also want the dog to be from a line of fully health tested animals for that price. JMO.

Cynecagsd · #20 04/27/11, 08:25 AM

I was goingto say if you wanted bigger then standard GSD's then you might look at the Shiloh Shepherds. Tend to be coats too as I recall. Also look at King Shepherds

http://www.kingshepherd.com/ Also large GSD type.

As for the GSD's well the entire breed seems to be headed that direction.. using imports and so forth. I love the American lines, I do.. but trying to find solid American lines is next to impossible. Trust me I looked for over a year and finally gave up. I flat out refused to pay $2500 for a pet, there was no way. to me thats show quality pricing and I dont intend to show. If I am going to pay that much then I better be able to show it and win with it. I mean really... I paid $2500 for Conn as a young dog not quite adult but close knowing he had both testicals (not that they worked although they were supposed to) all his teeth and was guarenteed finishable.

To answer your question.. no I wouldnt pay show price for a pet quality dog.