When one pet kills another

[DamnearaFarm]

Sorry, my fingers are stiff and that title was supposed to be 'PET' not pne.

Oh Lord, it hurts to relive this in this post. For those who don't remember, I have four inside dogs- a four year old heeler we've had for three years, a year and a half old corgi we've had for almost a year, a probable jack russell/dashund (that just looks like it's spelled wrong, lol) mix that found us in NM, so no idea on his age and finally, a foundling older corgi who found us about seven months ago and who just came inside around October of last year.

Now....

Obviously, I have herding dogs and they like to herd- nothing like their counterparts who live outside and actually work for a living (other folks' dogs- I just have one outside dog). A few times a day, one or two will try to herd one of the cats (all older, all except one is 12-13 yrs old) and once I hear feet scrabbling on the hardwood, all I have to do is say 'Leave it' and they're by my side instantly. They've never shown any aggression towards the cats and usually curl up to sleep with several of them sharing a room. Eat/drink next to them and everything.

The heeler is shut up in the dining room if noone is home, she and the younger corgi had an issue in the past and the heeler was crate trained, so she finds comfort in her rug on the floor (treat tossed in as we leave helps as well ). The other three have the run of the house.

I took the kids to school last Thursday and was gone 15 minutes, tops. When I came home, there lay one of the cats, dead in the kitchen. Looks like they tried to herd her in the foyer, through the living room and into the kitchen. The older corgi was standing over her, with the younger looking on. They were both breathing hard, so I know they both were involved. I do have to say I suspect the older corgi most- she was an outside dog for who knows how until I brought her in and when she is taken to the barn, she watches the other animals and seems to be 'working' them from the other side of the fence. No aggression, but if they separate, she wants them back together. The younger corgi, bless her heart, is an idiot. She's always had a short attention span and whenever a cat would growl/hiss at her, she'd yelp and run to me. I don't think she'd hurt the cats under her own power, but when accompanied by a more experienced dog with more attention span..... she did.

I wonder if the older dog had been in trouble for something like this before, it was days after the incident before she would come to us for attention and when I found them, she dropped her head and slunk away.

Now, when we leave the house, the older corgi is in another room, with the door shut.

The dogs still eat/drink/sleep next to the other cats and the cats show no fear. I truely hope this was an isolated incident and by not allowing her free reign of the house, this will never happen again.

Having to pick up my friend of 12 years and deposit her still warm body in a garbage bag was haunting- I keep trying to remember her how she was that last night- peering over the edge of the stairs, talking to me at dinnertime.

I still have hard feelings towards the corgis- particularly the older one. I try not to- she's obviously had a rough life, a bad break that was untreated in a front leg and her fear of children- in addition to her poor condition from being a throwaway. But still.... how do I get over this feeling? Will it ever end? Seeing them flipped on their backs, sleeping on the couch or curled up with one of the kids- well, it's just hard to reconcile that image with a killer.

[Wolf Flower]

So sorry to hear this. I don't blame you for having hard feelings. I have to say that if one of my dogs killed one of my cats, it would probably be the last thing they ever did.

[CraterCove]

I can definitely sympathize I am sorry for your loss. However, no matter which dog did cause the cat's death none of them are murderers. Dog's are carnivores, they are, by nature, hunters. It will not get anyone anywhere to hold a dog's nature against them.

It is us as their owners and caretakers that have to set them up to succeed and live peaceably. Dogs and cats should not be left unsupervised in closed quarters. My own personal practices are that no animal is left loose in the house when I am not around. There is no end of trouble and danger they can get into in a house... we keep poisons (raisins can be deadly to dogs along with a lot of other perfectly healthy human foods!) where they can get into them with a little will and time.

Dogs are wonderful companions, indispensable tools and kindred spirits to humans... but first and foremost they are predators that we keep in our homes. They need our respect as such as much as they need our care and affection!

[bluemoonluck]

Can you place the offending dog in a home with no cats? IME if they kill a cat once, they are likely to do it again. Unless you are willing to lose another cat the only option is to either euthanize or place the dog. Otherwise, unfortunately, your other cats just got put on "warning".

Can't blame a dog for being a dog...but if a dog is being a dog and bites a child, I still would never allow that dog in the same house as a child ever again. Same rule applies to cats.

[SFM in KY]

I am so sorry, that has to be terribly difficult.

I've rarely had house cats, but have always had several house dogs and generally breeds that are often considered 'dog aggressive' dogs. I have always been very careful about what dogs I left out together ... unsupervised ... when I was not in the house and thankfully have never had any issues. However, there were definitely dogs I would not ever leave out together without someone in the house with them.

I've also had dogs that were fine with livestock by themselves ... but with another dog that was stock aggressive, would join in an attack. Pack behavior and something that is simply instinct for a dog, not something that is corrected by training, etc.

I have no idea what would have triggered an attack on the cat, but suspect it was a situation where they may have started 'herding' ... nipped when the cat didn't herd in the right direction ... cat reacted and dogs resorted to pack behavior ... one grabs and the other joins in.

[Maura]

I have found comfort in burying pets in the back yard. I also think you need to rehome the corgi you think is the instigator. My first suspect would be the doxie Jack, both breeds are known to be excellent vermin hunters. Jack Russels have been known to kill the cat they grew up with. I would have looked for blood on the muzzles or throats of all of them.

Once a pack gets into a frenzy, even a soft dog will join in. Given that, if the older corgi didn't kill the cat, but did give such a chase that the others joined in, rehoming him should still keep the peace. Don't feel bad. You've given him seven good months that he wouldn't have had, and he could be a wonderful companion for someone else.

[DamnearaFarm]

Oh- Maura's comment reminded me- it's DEFINITELY not the New Mexico mix. This is the most docile and terrified dog in the world. Scared to death of the cats and the wind and the sound of guns (toy or not) and flyswatters, video games, microwave timers, dryer buzzers... you get the picture. When the other dogs play with their rope toys, he runs to a human, shaking. Running/playing/barking terrifies him. I don't know what happened in the little fella's life before us, but he's definitely scarred.

And there was no blood- ANYWHERE. None on the cat, the floor, the dogs- nothing. Little tufts of hair in the three rooms, but that's it.

[SFM in KY]

With no blood anywhere, I wonder if one of the Corgi's just got too 'aggressive' with the herding (some herding dogs will 'grab'), happened to clamp down too hard, or twist/flip the cat just right to break the neck? It does not really sound like a 'pack mentality' attack from what you describe.

[Ravenlost]

Originally Posted by bluemoonluck

Can you place the offending dog in a home with no cats? IME if they kill a cat once, they are likely to do it again. Unless you are willing to lose another cat the only option is to either euthanize or place the dog. Otherwise, unfortunately, your other cats just got put on "warning"...

There is another option. We've lost three cats to dogs. Broke our hearts so I know what you are going through and I am so sorry.

One of the incidents took place outside. It involved our dog Aine, who was a Malinous mix. She STALKED cats, but was in the fenced in backyard and none of the cats ever went back there...until a new cat decided to explore. I was not home, but hubby saw it happen. The cat never had a chance, Aine was on her in a second. When I got home hubby was ready to shoot Aine, but I knew that would break his heart even more so we took her to the local shelter and gave her up, letting them know she could not be placed in a home with cats.

Now, for the other option...after we lost a couple cats in the house while we were gone we are extremely careful about how we separate cats and dogs before we go somewhere. All cats indoors are gathered up and shut in the master bedroom. We keep food, water and a litterbox in our bathroom so they have everything they need. We double check that there are no cats anywhere in the house (hubby does head counts multiple times) and we double check that the door is securely shut. Then hubby puts a baby gate across the stairs so none of the dogs can go up there.

This is the only way we can keep the cats safe from the dogs. When we are home we've never (other than Aine) had trouble with the dogs and cats getting along. They sleep together, they groom one another, etc. But we have learned the hard way that when we're coming up the driveway the dogs get overly excited and they will kill a cat when they're in a frenzy...pack mentality I guess. It is our responsibility to make sure all our animals are safe and we take it very seriously.

Again, I am so sorry for the loss of your cat. My heart goes out to you. I hope that you will be able to forgive the dogs for being dogs and let go of your resentment. I had many long talks with hubby on doing this and, while it took him some time, he realizes that the dogs were not killing the cats for any reason other than they were dogs. Good luck! Hopefully if you take the right measures it won't happen again.

[beccachow]

I am just very very sorry. I know you are heartbroken. ((hugs))

[crispin]

I have mentioned it here a couple of times.
For the last 2 years we have had our small dogs and puppies mauled and / or killed.
Always thought it was a Great Pernese we HAD but always gave it doubt / second chance.
Around a month ago we caught her in the process of killing 12 hour old puppies that another one of our dogs had just birthed. My DSO was screaming for me to come help her I ran out and kicked the Perenese in the ribs. It ran off and then turned back around and grabbed a puppy it had killed and ran off into the woods with it.

I woke up early the next morning, quietly walked up to where the Perense was sleeping, and I shot her in the back of the head.

Had I had done that 2 years eairlier when I first suspected her of killing, many cute sweet puppies would have had a better and longer life.

Put the dog down, it will happen again.

[CraterCove]

I'm sorry but cannibalism is different from preying on another species of animal. What your pyr did proved it was imbalanced and putting it down was absolutely the right thing to do.

This is a different issue.

[MO_cows]

Sorry this happened! I would try to re-home the dog you think caused the problem. I think you will remember this incident every time you look at that dog, and that is no way to live for you or the dog. If you can't find a suitable home and have to put it down, while that's also very hard on the heart, sometimes it just has to be done.

Also, don't leave any dogs at large with cats in the house when you are gone. I have heard versions of this story sooooo many times, how well they got along for years and then the big dog killed the little dog, or the dog killed the cat, or whatever. I think we sometimes forget they are animals and they simply don't possess "moral standards" or whatever you want to call it.

[GoldenMom]

I wonder if the cat had a heart problem? Twelve is about the right age. Maybe the dogs were herding/chasing and it was too much for the heart? Maybe they didn't directly kill the cat...if he/she had a heart problem, it was just a matter of time before it gave out.

[cjb]

Agree on rehoming the corgi. There's individual and possibly group dynamic there that just won't work.

Many dogs are re-homed with the stipulation that cats cannot be there.

[cjb]

Originally Posted by GoldenMom

I wonder if the cat had a heart problem? Twelve is about the right age. Maybe the dogs were herding/chasing and it was too much for the heart? Maybe they didn't directly kill the cat...if he/she had a heart problem, it was just a matter of time before it gave out.

I wondered about this too but then.... "tufts of hair around the room.."

[SFM in KY]

Originally Posted by cjb

I wondered about this too but then.... "tufts of hair around the room.."

Possibly the "don't just lay there, we're herding dogs and you are supposed to be going THAT WAY" ?? I have seen some herding dogs get pretty aggressive moving something.

[DamnearaFarm]

I wondered if there might have been something wrong with her- the talking to me at dinner time from the staircase NEVER happened before, this cat was SO food needy (not aggressive, as she would share- but she always felt she needed to steal it) she would swipe human food right off the plate if you weren't watching That night, I had to take the food to her, but I didn't think much about it, as she acted normal the rest of the night.

I thought maybe they'd scared her to death with the herding. We had a cat a few years ago (also in the early teens) that just laid down and died in his sleep. It was heart related.

You may be right, SFM. These two are the ones who 'share' a rope toy. Running around with it in both their mouths.

I'm glad you weighed in, Raven. You're the first one I thought of, wondering if you'd ever gone through this.

I'm sorry, I won't rehome the corgi. If I thought this was done maliciously, then certainly. I suspect it was a case of a old herding dog doing what a herding dog does- when it really shouldn't have.

I'm not one for passing on problems- with my raised and socialized properly akita, I ended up keeping her in a six foot kennel AND on a thick wire lead when she became aggressive. When we moved to NM and couldn't take her, then we had her put down.

I will continue to keep her up when we leave- she's content to go in the spare room and hops on the bed (after a good run and go) and sleeps. Something tells me she doesn't have much time left- just a feeling I have....

[SageLady]

I have a corgi, a pug, and a chihuahua. They all chase the cat incessantly. The cat seems to enjoy the chase, but I NEVER leave them alone together ever. My dogs get into squabbles sometimes too. Whenever we are gone all 3 dogs go into their own individual crates and the cat gets the run of the house. Everyone is safe and I don't have to worry. I know that things could get out of hand at anytime, afterall they are animals....

My deepest sympathy for the loss of your cat, but I think you need to let go of the bad feelings you have towards any of your dogs. You don't know for sure who might of killed the cat or if they even killed the cat - the cat itself could of just died from its heart stopping during some hardy play. I had a cat died just a couple weeks ago from his heart suddenly stopping. He was fine minutes before. No one hurt him, I was right there.
It happens....

I think in the future though, for the safety of all, they should ALL be separated and secured in different crates or rooms whenever you are not there to supervise them. Again, they are animals, and you just never know....

[crispin]

Originally Posted by CraterCove

I'm sorry but cannibalism is different from preying on another species of animal. What your pyr did proved it was imbalanced and putting it down was absolutely the right thing to do.

This is a different issue.

I agree -- you are right.
it is different.
I am still a bit upset over what happened to those puppies.