Price to fix umbilical hernia???

[Old Mission]

One of my dane pups from my litter has a small umbilical hernia, I want to get it fixed
before he leaves, vets said it can wait till neuter and may just close on its own soon anyway that there was no need to repair it now,
but I want to so one less thing for new owners to deal with later.
The vets told me around $250 plus to fix it and thats with him coming home after he wakes up, no overnight stay or anything. This does not
sound right to me and sounds more like the price for a larger hernia repair. The actual 'hole' is about the size of a pea or a tad smaller.
The fat coming through makes it look about the size of a gumball or large marble. So its just cosmetic and not causing any problems, but its ugly and I want to get it fixed before he leaves especially since danes
cannot be neutered till they are around a year old. If I waited till neuter to have it fixed it would only be $30 to fix. I have no problem doing it now,
Just want to make sure I dont get ripped off again since I have so many times in the past.


Stephanie

[mekasmom]

It costs around a hundred dollars here, but since it is a nonthreatening problem in the vast majority of cases, they don't do it unless they are doing another procedure at the same time. Since this is a male, it won't hurt him anyway in most cases. You don't want him breeding with this problem, so why not just sell him at a lower price on a neuter contract? He is only a pet, and is not worth that much anyway.
Anyway, here, the majority of the cost of hernia repair is simply the anesthetic.

[Cannon_Farms]

anyone that shallow to let something so simple be a turn off at a pet price is not some one that needs a drool monster in my opinion. Would they reject a kid if it had a outie instead of a normal belly button? Id love to have him but right now its not in my finances to purchase such a quality of dog.

Are you going to have his ears done? if so they might can do it at the same time and not have to put him under a total of 3 times . It is a simple procedure but blood work and anastisia (sp?) do cost a bit plus most want a overnight stay, not something I would allow unless they have a night attendant so 250 for it is not bad if its a vet you trust, personally id opt to find him some one like me but with more money (lol) who would feel privledged to have him.
Unfortunatly until I can get the rest of my land fenced for my livestock I cant justify any major expendatures, maybe next litter hopefully. Trade you a teenager

[Old Mission]

His ears were already done at 7 weeks, I did not have the hernia fixed at that time cause I thought I was keeping him and was not worried about it since its so tiny.
meka's mom this pup is out of Ch, health tested parents, 2 yr health guarantee, ears cropped, ect, my show pups sell for the same price as my pet pups and I dont break even on the litter ever, if I sold them any less I would not be able to show or breed at all and he is going as a pet. So I'd be paying someone to take him if he went for any less basically after ear crop, hernia fixed at that price, shots, ect. Price is not the issue, plenty interested in a pup of this quality. Just want to make sure I'm not getting ripped off on the price of surgery, it seems whenever these vets figure out I show they think I am made of money and suddenly the price of everything doubles. I had a long time trusted vet who retired
and am trying to find a replacement but have not found anything close to as good as him, it cost me $300 just to put a dog to sleep a couple months ago! I know I paid $80 in the past with other dogs of the same size. And this is the same vet who's quoting the hernia repair. Not much to choose from out here.

Stephanie

[mekasmom]

Sorry if I offended you. But if he has an umbilical hernia, he is considered pet quality. And with that issue, he should be sold on an alteration contract. You don't want him to pass it on to offspring. That would be an undesirable legacy in your line of dogs.

[Cannon_Farms]

Though Im confused on your pricing methods its non of my business, however I would think it only fair that you either set aside the money or take the cost less than asking price for the surgery as it will need to be fixed, if he ever boated that simple thing could come more complex. Its not fair for a buyer to pay the same for a pup that isnt going to need that surgery as one that will. You can go to wholesomedane group and ask for references in your area if no one in your breed club can recommend another vet.
Not sure why your vets know you are showing, its not related to your dogs care, if people think you have money they generally try to take it from you instead of helping you obtain more. Generally speaking if your asking 2000 for a pup most people are going to think you have some pocket change, not saying thats what you ask for a pup but you get the drift

[Old Mission]

Ok I think we have a misunderstanding, he IS going as a pet, but danes cannot be neutered till around 12+ months old or it causes other health/growth issues from being neutered too young.

Stephanie

[Old Mission]

Originally Posted by Cannon_Farms

I would think it only fair that you either set aside the money or take the cost less than asking price for the surgery as it will need to be fixed

Vet said if it was fixed during neuter it would be $30, if I do it now it will
be $250+
Vet said I should wait to have it done, that it would probably close on its own or if not can be fixed during neuter but I wanted to have it taken care of now especially since they cant be neutered till older.

So its a non issue as far as that goes and I always take care of things like this for puppy buyers and thats not the issue. I would never sell a pup with a issue and not take care of it for the owners. I just wanted to make sure I was not getting ripped off again since I have been sooooo many times. It adds up. I have had much more complicated surgeries done in the past for WAY less then this and that was for full grown danes not a pup including overnight stays, xrays, surgery, bloodwork, ect so I just dont see how they come up with that price to fix a tiny hole and come home the same day. They know who I am there, regular customer so they know I show. Its the same office my old vet used to be at. After the old vet left the place totally changed and its a bunch fresh out of college vets who need to pay off student loans, so prices skyrocketed and every time I ask them a question they say they gotta go look it up in a book, they never know the answer. I live in a rural area so not much to choose from for vets unless I travel a hour away.

Stephanie

[Old Mission]

My pricing method I just charge the same price for every pup, you cant tell for sure which will be show quality still later in life, so much can still change on such a huge dog, so I dont charge any extra for show pups unless it was pick of the litter situation and that pup was out of this world, which I usually keep the pick for myself its the whole reason I breed a litter in the first place so that rarely happens, only if its a sex I dont want to keep at that time.


Stephanie

[Willowynd]

I have had 3 pups with umbilical hernias before. If small, it probably will heal on its own. If still very young you can tape a coin to his belly to help keep it in place and sometimes that does the trick. If older, then what I have done is just contact the vet of the people who will be getting him and ask thier vet what the charge will be to repair when neutering and knock that off the price of the pup- and put that in your contract. Out of the 2 I sold that I have had over the years...one opted to repair during spay, the other decided it was no big deal and left it and refused to let me knock money off for an "outie". The third was actually quite large to me, I kept that gal, but it was sealed and the vet felt no issue. She produced a litter just fine with no issues and still has the hernia even after being spayed - she is now 13 yrs old. No hernias from her or her daughter. Sometimes bitches get carried away and like to swing thier pups around when being born by the cord- it happens.

[JasoninMN]

I wouldn't have it done till he is neutered and make the buyer aware that it may need to be done. What difference is it going to make if you sell the puppy now and take $250.00 of its price or spend the $250 and have it done now? In the end you are still out $250.00
either way.

If it were me I would reduce the price and not risk putting the puppy under anesthesia again. I am assuming its been done once if its ears are cropped and will need to be done with its neutered. Why not wait till then.

[Old Mission]

Willowynd, this pup was almost 2lbs when born, and the dam had a hard time getting him out, had to have a pit shot and the cord ripped off and pretty short before he was fully out, he started breathing right away fine thank goodness. So I dont know if that is what caused the hernia or not since the cord was ripped from the hard birth and torn really short on top of it.
http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenl...umbilical.html

Stephanie

[beccachow]

Duke the Wonder Dog has had a small gumball sized hernia for his entire life, no complications from it.

[tailwagging]

Originally Posted by Willowynd

I have had 3 pups with umbilical hernias before. If small, it probably will heal on its own. If still very young you can tape a coin to his belly to help keep it in place and sometimes that does the trick.

I was going to suggest the coin too! (great minds) but I was told to put a little bit of balled cotton between the coin and belly to push the hernia back in.

[Immaculate Sublimity]

uhhh, Since when are umbilical hernias hereditary? generally a tear in the abdominal wall occurs when the umbilicus is pulled either at birth before the afterbirth follows or while the Dam is cleaning the puppy.

Certainly a FEMALE pup with an umbilical hernia probably shouldnt be bred depending on the severity for the obvious reasons that further straining the area woudlnt be a good thing.
However a Male dog out of quality breeding that has a repaired or even not, small hernia? Whats the issue? if the dog is conformationally correct sans the hernia, with clearances and testing... I'd not let a repaired hernia bother me in a breeding dog.

Freaking out about something that happens at birth and declaring the dog unbreedable is as bad as those people that think one mongrel litter will forever more stain their dogs pedigree, and all future litters after that will also be partly mixed. Its nuts.

[Willowynd]

I know that hernias CAN be hereditary, but they can also be caused by undue pulling on the cord during birth or afterwards when omentum seeps through. If it is a case that you saw the hard pulling on the cord, then it is possible it is due to that, especially if there is not hernias in the background. Even if it is hereditary, there is no perfect dog and breeders pick thier poisons. Some have no issue with a hernia that is not in need of repair, others repair those anyhow and still others shy away from hernias. One the scale of things, a small hernia that is not filled with intestine is minute compared to the other things that can be carried. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water is what my mentor told me long ago. Now the issue we were discussing at the time was more serious to me, but the addage rings true with other things such as this.
Even females with a hernia- as long as it seals itself off (cannot be pushed back in) and no intestine is caught- it is not an issue. Personally, I would not sweat it in ones that do not cause an issue.

[Old Mission]

I agree.....with so many serious debilitating things that can effect dogs, something so minor and cosmetic as a small umbilical hernia thats not effecting the health of the dog at all (basically a outie belly button) should not stand in the way of breeding/showing if the dog has much to offer and is healthy. From my research most do close on their own, just delayed, so it does not effect the structural integrity of the abdomen at all and does not pose any health issues, just a minor 'cosmetic' flaw, a bubble of fat just gets trapped when it closes and stays there. If we nixed every dog that was not totally 'perfect' in every way, there would be no gene pool and everything would be so inbred and end up sick anyway! So you have to pick your poison, whats worth working on and what needs to be culled from breeding. Some health problems are unforgivable and should not be bred, but some less serious can be fixed with proper breeding. There is no such thing as a perfect dog.
The reason I am not keeping this puppy is not cause the hernia, his eyes ended up too light brown for the show ring, he 'could' be shown but it would be harder, I can only have 1 male here so its gotta be as close to perfect as possible to be worth my time and effort to house males and females in the same house, not have any glaring faults.

Stephanie

[Willowynd]

I had not heard of using the cotton under it, but it makes sense. The tricky part is keeping it on!

Originally Posted by tailwagging

I was going to suggest the coin too! (great minds) but I was told to put a little bit of balled cotton between the coin and belly to push the hernia back in.

Stephanie, if you can still push it back in with your finger, then you can still use the coin trick.

[SDjulieinSC]

Wow, this went way off track!
All she wanted to know was if we thought she was being overcharged by her vet...........

[tailwagging]

Originally Posted by Willowynd

I had not heard of using the cotton under it, but it makes sense. The tricky part is keeping it on!



Stephanie, if you can still push it back in with your finger, then you can still use the coin trick.

I was also told that a belt of vet wrap can be used to help keep it from being removed by the pup.

[Old Mission]

Ya I can still push it back in, but due to his size and deep chest shape the tape wont stay in place to hold it. He has surgery scheduled for tomorrow and is going to a new home on Saturday.

Stephanie

[tailwagging]

Good thoughts sent your and the pup's way =)

[Old Mission]

Pups at the vets right now, they said the hernia was small and just cosmetic and no 'need' to fix it but I wanted to have it done anyway.

The reason I was so thrown off by the price is they said it would be $30-$40 to fix it when done with a neuter, and I have had several 100lb plus dogs there neutered and it was always $100-$120, So then it should be around $150 at most for neuter and hernia fix. But yet if I fix just the hernia now, when he weighs only 36lbs, why would it cost $250+?!?!?
I asked the vet about this when I was there telling her I was confused on the pricing, and she backpeddled on the price a bit thank goodness! I dont know what the price will be yet, but it should be better then $250!
People just assume I must make money hand over fist breeding a litter but its not the case at all I have never 'profited' from a single litter (only had 3 litters in my life and 2 of those were very small litters, but have been showing dogs for 10 years, Just breed when I am ready to add another dog to show here in my house) So I try to be wise about what I spend, price shop, ect cause it really adds up when you have giant breeds!


Stephanie

[tailwagging]

I can't imagine how much you put out!
we raise toys and even then we have never have broken even. I wish people understood that you can't make bundles off of breeding dogs.

[Old Mission]

The only way you 'make' money off of breeding dogs is by cutting corners. And with Danes everything costs WAY more (vets, food, bedding, HW meds, ect) but pups still sell for the same or less then a toy breed. And my litters are about the size of a toy breed! (2-4!)

For all those curious the pups hernia surgery cost $185, so still high if you ask me since
neuter and hernia fixed was only $150 if I had them both done, so I dont get it how it cost more to do less, but at least it was not $250! With danes they should not be neutered till 12+ months old, so no way I was neutering him now.
He's home and doing great and goes to his new home on Saturday.

Stephanie

[tailwagging]

Good to hear.

I have a lot of respect for the large dog breeder.