Why do people refuse to understand?

[SFM in KY]

That for some people, their animals are their 'family' or at least as much family as the people family?

Two good friends, probably my two closest friends, have both been faced recently with situations where age and illness are taking a toll. Both have always had animals, both are now widows (with grown children now) and in both cases, their dogs are definitely the major source of satisfaction and enjoyment in their lives.

The situation:

One friend lives in the country but her health issues are at the point where she isn't able to do a lot of the things she needs to do without help. She's pretty much limited to driving to the nearest small town (5 miles) and has home health help that takes her to the bigger town (20 miles) once a month to shop for groceries and to doctor visits. She has to watch her expenses, but she can certainly afford to continue living in her own home.

Second friend has a limited income, SS only, after her husband became seriously ill, was fired from his job, then a series of "bad jobs" ended up with them running through their savings, retirement and finally bankruptcy before he died. Not what they had planned. She has had to work part time to afford to live independently and recently lost her job. The only real satisfaction and companionship has been her dogs and she is now in a situation where even in this economy, people are on a waiting list for a litter of puppies of her breeding. Only one or two litters a year, but she has entire litters that finish their championships and right now I think 3 or 4 dogs of her breeding are on the top-10 list for the breed. They are not only her companions, but an ongoing source of pride through what has been 15 very difficult years.

The problem? Their families.

The first friend's family has been increasingly insistent that she sell her home, get rid of her two dogs and move into an assisted living residence in town.

The second friend's son insists that if she got rid of her dogs and moved into one of the rent-controlled senior residences available her SS income would be adequate and she wouldn't need to work.

This is a very simplified version of more complex situations, of course, but it seems so strange to me that family would insist on a solution that would cause their parent nothing but unhappiness. Is because as we get older our children think we aren't capable of making informed choices based on our preferences or are they just wanting to resolve a situation they would really prefer not to have to deal with in the easiest way possible?

[NickieL]

Yes. For some poeple thier dogs/cats/ etc are like family.

There are people in this world that think animals are JUST animals...


I actually pity those types of people who can't have enough heart to love more then just people.

[longshadowfarms]

Originally Posted by SFM in KY

or are they just wanting to resolve a situation they would really prefer not to have to deal with in the easiest way possible?

Would be my guess.

[SFM in KY]

I just feel badly for both of them, very difficult situations and no support from their families. I suppose it bothers me more because I'm in the same general age group and I can see myself facing the same situation if things change for me.

[hobbyfarmer]

I don't think I would blame the adult children - or at least not harshly. Think about it. SS or even a work related pension is not enough to support most adults right now and with inflation going haywire, the cost of living will continue to skyrocket while retirement benefits are likely cut. THAT makes adult children, or the "sandwich generation" responsible for mom or dad's care, responsible for our own care, and responsible for our children as well.

When Mom and Dad were raising their (now grown) children, I'm sure they said 'no' at at some point to a puppy, a kitten, a pony or what have you. Not because Mom and Dad were selfish people, but because they had jobs to work, a mortgage to pay, and children to feed. As parents, they knew that their child or their household was probably not suited at different times to having pets....or whatever the children wanted to make them happy. Now, the shoe is on the other foot. Mom's grown children are worrying that she has lost her husband and partner, she has lost a good part of her income, as well as the potential at her age and in her health to earn more money if an emergency arises. Her children probably only want to see her cared for and safe.

I'm not saying I agree with their methods, but I seriously doubt these adult children are just trying to make their mothers miserable. They are trying to help, but they have lives and obligations of their own which obviously take precedence over mom's attachment to a dog, right now. Not that it's ok. But it is a fact of life and IMO, Mom needs to try and understand her children's new position as caregivers - as their roles start to reverse.

As long as she is able to care for her pets, I think she should have them. But it's time for her to clearly communicate her feelings to her grown children- working with them to establish a mutually acceptable care strategy for her as she ages. I've seen too many aging parents force a grown child to promise "never' to put them in a nursing home only to sulk and pout at those adult children every time they have to give up something of personal value in order to make it possible for an adult child to care for the parent. It's not easy on anyone and parents who behave like children certainly don't make those challenges any easier for the people who love them.

[Ravenlost]

They just want what's easiest for them. Doesn't matter if it's what their parent wants.

[SFM in KY]

Originally Posted by hobbyfarmer

They are trying to help, but they have lives and obligations of their own which obviously take precedence over mom's attachment to a dog, right now. Not that it's ok. But it is a fact of life and IMO, Mom needs to try and understand her children's new position as caregivers - as their roles start to reverse.It's not easy on anyone and parents who behave like children certainly don't make those challenges any easier for the people who love them.

In the one case, from my personal observations, I believe the one family is interested in only one thing, getting their hand's on my friend's property. In every case, the suggestion for "assisted living" has been accompanied by a request to "put your home in our name so the government can't take it if you have to go to a nursing home". I suspect there has never been a close family relationship there and the only time I know of the son, grandson or granddaughter actually taking my friend somewhere was when she paid them to do so. When the home health people said they could provide the transport service (for less money) she offered to pay them that amount and they chose not to.

I'm not sure why my other friend's son has decided the entire issue is her dogs, which seems to be the case. She says she's tried to explain that they are not costing her money, which seems to be his primary objection, but in fact they have been contributing to her income the last two years and he simply doesn't "hear". She says at this point it has gotten to be such an issue she simply does not discuss it anymore. I don't think she is acting "childishly" in this case ... she says she realizes there is going to be a point where she can't do it anymore and will have to stop, but that she is simply not ready to do so yet, with her health still reasonably good, while she remains able to be active.

I can see the possibility that I may be in a similar situation at some point in my life. Quite honestly, if I am mentally competent and not physically handicapped to the point I am unable to care for myself, I would not be amenable to any of my family telling me I *had* to change my lifestyle to what they deemed appropriate.

I don't think I'm being unreasonably harsh in my judgement of the families involved. I was an only child and ended up with the responsibility for the care of my grandmother in the last months of her life, as well as my mother and my father. Although all three were financially secure, they were no longer able to live alone so I'm aware of both sides of the situation.

[Mi_ku]

The fact that both families want their "loved ones" to move into a facility, speeks volumes to me. I understand that some people really can't take of themselves and have to go to a place w/ professional staff. However, if these women need any help at all, it seems like being closer to family, or even living w/ family, would be enough. My grandmother got her first dog in a long time (probably the very first dog that was hers and not her husbands hunting dog or her kids' pet) shortly after my grandad passed away. A few months later she had to got into the hospital. Never once did we suggest the puppy go back to the shelter or find a new home. Someone, a family member, stayed at her home and made sure he was well cared for. When it became clear that my grandmother wasn't coming home in a few weeks, my aunt and uncle took the puppy to their house. Wanting to get back to her puppy, kept my granmother going. She did get to come to him for a little over a month and he brought her so much joy. After my grandmother passed, there was no shortage of homes, again in the family, for him to go to. He ended up w/ my aunt and cousin b/c they could give him the most one on one attention and they needed a link to my grandmother. Bottom line: Simon was very important to my grandmother, which meant he was imortant to us.

IMO, both ladies (the breeder in particular) need to make plans for their dogs just in case. I've known of too many breeders who life's work and reputation are ruined when an uneducated, uncaring family member takes over.

P.S. For anyone who might be worried about how Simon handled the whole thing; you've never seen such a well socialized, happy dog.

[Jenni979]

I agree with Mi Ku...

10000000%

[kirkmcquest]

Bottom line is that her decisions are hers to make, and the kids (who obviously don;t care about their mother's happiness) can insist all they want but the Mom is an adult and makes her own decisions.

I would have her tell the kids, in an off-handed way that she donated the house upon her death to an animal rescue fund. It would be interesting to see if they still push to get her into a home if they think there isn't anything in it for them.

[Laura Zone 10]

Originally Posted by Ravenlost

They just want what's easiest for them. Doesn't matter if it's what their parent wants.

YOU took the words right out of my mouth.

Six months after my Grammy went into a nursing home, she died.
She wasn't 'sick'. She was just, old.
When they sold her house and put her in a home, she realized..she wasn't "home" and her dogs were "gone".
I was young (19-20) and full of myself.....I didn't even offer to stay and live with her. I regret this.

Unfortunately, my Grammy was not "there" for my mom and aunt when they were growing up.....so maybe they figured, they don't need to be there when she grows old? I don't know......
I won't do this to my folks.....even if we DON'T get along. I will find a way.

[SFM in KY]

Originally Posted by Mi_ku

However, if these women need any help at all, it seems like being closer to family, or even living w/ family, would be enough.

Bottom line: Simon was very important to my grandmother, which meant he was imortant to us.

IMO, both ladies (the breeder in particular) need to make plans for their dogs just in case.

Unfortunately, in neither case, is closer to/ living with family an option. First friend's family is within 20 miles, they are the ones urging her to go to assisted living and signing her property over to them. Second friend's son and family lives in Virginia, similar to the climate here in KY. The original plan was for her to live here on the farm with us, in her own cabin but her allergies got to the point where they could not be controlled. She needs to be in basically a "high desert" climate.

In the first case, I don't think the family cares what is important to their mother/grandmother. Very strange family dynamics and she is not blameless, but the situation still has to be dealt with.

In the second case, I really don't have a clue. I'm not sure why her son is so resistant to her continuing with the dogs and he's got to know they are the most important thing in her life at this stage.

I'm already tasked to taking the two toy poodles for the first friend and my second friend has already designated "new owners" for her two current show dogs. Most of the dogs she has now are jointly owned, she keeps them, shows them, but they also spend time with the other owners in their "off show circuit" time so there would be no issue of who was to get what dog. She also has long-term friends there who have known her and her dogs for many years and are able to take them temporarily if necessary as well.

[Ed Norman]

My old Ma is in her 80s. We were talking about how some of her old friends are going into various facilities. She doesn't have any pets, but has plenty of animals. She knows every squirrel and deer and coon on the place. She told me she doesn't want to go to some place, she wants to die at home when the time comes. I said have at it. It's not my choice to make.

[SFM in KY]

Originally Posted by Ed Norman

My old Ma is in her 80s. We were talking about how some of her old friends are going into various facilities. She doesn't have any pets, but has plenty of animals. She knows every squirrel and deer and coon on the place. She told me she doesn't want to go to some place, she wants to die at home when the time comes. I said have at it. It's not my choice to make.

Exactly. You came up with the words I was looking for.

Sometimes it isn't possible, but I think whenever it is somewhere within the realm of possibility, it is a choice every person should be able to make for themselves.

[Maura]

Sit down with each friend, or both together and discuss their true options. If either of them sold their homes now would they be ahead financially? Probably not in our present economic situation. Each of the women can put a family name onto their homes with a simple Quit Claim Deed. Ask a lawyer how to write it so they can avoid probate upon her (or their) death.

Mi Ku hit the nail on the head. The dogs can go to a specific rescue organization (contact the organization, they probably have a contract for this) or in the case of the breeder, will the dogs to another respected breeder and have him/her find good pet homes for the older dogs. I believe that she can also make a trust or something that will give the dogs to the friend/rescue upon entering a nursing home or assisted care that does not allow pets.

When family brings up moving, she can get off the phone, or ask them to leave. Good bye.

[Otter]

I really can't conceive of it.
My mom and I have ... baggage- and some of her hobbies drive me nuts. - but when it comes down to it, they are hers and it makes her happy. And that's what I tell her "Whatever makes you happy Mom."
She collects stuff and when she goes I'm going to have a years worth of work to sort it out and likely inherit debt.
But this is the woman who changed my diaper and held my hair back when I threw up on the rug so if it brings her enjoyment then so be it.

So one day I'm going to have to build an addition for her and her stuff. And that's ok. She's my mom, warts and all, and she took care of me when I needed it and I'll return the favor. The only way she'll go to a home is if she needs round-the-clock medical care and I hope we never get to that.

Now, my Grandma has said for years that if she ever gets Alzhiemers, she wants to be put in a home. She said she doesn't want to be a burden. I laughed and said if she gets Alzheimers I'll take her to live with me and tell her she's in a home and then we'd both be happy.
It would not be a burden to care for her - it would be an honor.

Now, I've noticed that I'm far more patient with my Grandmother then her children and naturally my DD doesn't have the same baggage with my mother I do. Maybe the solution is to skip a generation.
Do your friends have any decent grandkids who could first help and then inherit?

[Ruby]

The one DD that lives on the same property that we have loves my dogs as much as I do. She is the one that would be taking care of me or her dad. So I don't worry about her trying to get rid of my animals.

[Honorine]

Their not refusing to understand, they just don't care. In the first set of circumstances they want something from her, her property, so they want to stick her somewhere out of their way, take their 'inheritence' early and not have to worry about her 'stupid' little dogs. So many people feel a sense of entitlement to their parents property, and it often grows as the parent ages, and some get impatient waiting for what they consider is their just dues. Its greed, pure and simple, most likely driven partly by our horrible economy.

The second lady its her son turning a deaf ear to her, key word here 'Son'. Sounds like he just wants her tied up in a neat little box so that he doesn't have to do anything if she has a sudden crisis, like take off of work or travel to help her. He wants to do it on his terms, in his time frame, and be in control. Sadly its normally daughters who are the caretakers, and most sons couldn't be bothered to care for an aging parent. He probably resents the dogs as well, they've always been such a big part of her life and so important to her, he may feel she cares more for them than she does for him. No offense meant to all the good sons out there.

I've seen this with my DH's brother, he resents his mother so much, she lives right down the street from him, we live in another state. She sold her house to him at less than half of what it was worth, he's angry that he had to pay for something that should have been his. Well then he shouldn't have bought it. She calls him when she needs something, well, he is right down the street, we aren't. He hates that too, feels like she's always intruding into his life. But the flipside is whenever my DH trys to do something for his mother his brother gets his knickers in a bunch, because he simply must control everything. We were going to buy her a TV for Xmas, DH told his brother, brother wanted to go in on it. That turned into the brother calling saying that he had gone out and bought her a tv because he wanted to get it from a particular store and wanted a a certain brand. What a jerk.

Control, its all about control, whether its trying to get their hands on property or just struggling to be the one determining anothers fate thats all it is. Sad

[Mi_ku]

The second situation does sound very confusing. Does the son know that she's made plans for the dogs? Maybe he's concerned that he will have to deal w/ placing them when the time comes. If he knows she's made arrangements (good for her for doing so!) then perhaps he'll get off her back. Perhaps he is concerned about her traveling to shows. Does she travel alone or w/ dogshow friends and does he know that she travels w/ friends? The only other thing that comes to mind is that he could be jealous of the dogs. Either way I agree w/ the poster that said they can both hang up the phone or ask them to leave.

Just to be clear my comment about living w/ family didn't mean that they should live w/ family. I just think it says a lot about the children when they want their parent to move into a facilty instead. IMO, a facility should be a last resort.

[Willowynd]

I worry about the same thing when I get to that point in my life. My oldest son does not understand why I raise collies, he wants the house- but wants to get rid of everything in it- and has even mentioned tearing it down and putting up a new one. He has already told me that if my husband and I was to die tommorrow and he had his way all the dogs and animals would go and almost everything torn down. He has already talked about sticking me in a nursing home when I get old- over my dead body. I WILL die here or end my life as they are dragging me off.
I cannot count on any of my boys to take over my kennel as they lack the desire and I would not force anyone to do so. The line would probably end with me. I have already set aside a portion of my life insurance for thier care for any dogs that remain when I pass....but who would get them is unknown.
As I get to the point where I am slowing down, I will cut back as I need to. I am good at realizing when I am over extending myself. I do believe my youngest son would offer to help me if he is able, but it does occur to me that my oldest may try to have me claimed as mentally incompetent just to remove me from my home.
The other posters are right...these are children that do not care what the parent wants, they see things thier way and as to what is most convenient for them. That said, I do not beleive in burdening my children. I would not expect them to take care of me when I get old. I would welcome any help (such as chores/picking things up for me, etc- not financial) they wanted to provide, but I would never insist upon it or guilt them. If I got to the point where I needed to have help and could not afford to pay for it, I would be forced to reduce things to a manageable level. I would not expect my children to have any say so in how I live if they are not footing the bill- I have already made that clear to my oldest when he has complained that I have too many animals....as has my husband. As my husband puts it- it makes her happy and your not paying for it- she is...and if you don't like it- your welcome to leave your opinions at the door or don't visit.