Need suggestions for feeding 3 day old pups

[lauriej57]

Our Missy, 3 year old boxer, had her first (and last) litter of pups Wednesday evening. She delivered 2 and all seemed well. We took the pups in on Friday for tail docking and dewclaw removal and had them look at Missy also.

We also realized by Friday morning that one pup wasn't thriving. He definitely has some issues (cleft palate) and we elected to supplement feeding and give him a chance. However, the vet checked Missy over for us while we were there, took an xray, discovered a third puppy still in there. So, an emergency C-Section, and spay at the same time. Due the the cleft palate, we decided we didn't want to chance breeding Missy again.


We are feeding the small one Pro-Bialac. We started him on hourly feedings yesterday, and see a slight improvement. Yesterday, I noticed the the thriving pup seems to be just slightly dehydrated, at least I think so, I can pinch his skin on his back and it doesn't bounce right back, maybe this is normal in pups and I'm just looking for it because of the other one.

We managed to get Missy out in the open yesterday afternoon where we could get a good look at her incision and I tested her nipples, and I could not get milk from any of them. She ate very little yesterday, I assume this is from the surgery, the anesthetic especially. She was only away from her pups for a total of 6 hours Friday, we put them with her right away when she got home, even though she was mostly out of it. We stayed close to her throughout the night and they appeared to be nursing. She drinks alot of water, but only if we bring the water to her. She acts as though she is warm, but I checked and she doesn't have a fever. She is also on an antibiodic for 7 days.

I did two supplemental feedings to the healthy pup yesterday, I don't want to do to many if possible, because I realize that less nursing can cause her milk to decrease. She had plenty of milk before the surgery.

I do plan on calling the vet in the morning.

Has anyone here dealt with this before. Is it possible that her milk won't come back. Is there anything we can do, or give her, that will help the milk production. Or should we just start feeding both pups. When I give her back the pup after feeding, she does her motherly duties as far as helping them defecate and keeping them warm.

Neither hubby or I have dealt with baby puppies before and we are beginning to feel really overwhelmed.

[lamoncha lover]

Hi, I am sorry about your problem birth.You have been initiated by fire sounds like.Murphy's law ..and it will most likely happen on a weekend....
I personally would start feeding both pups. Feed the problem pup every hour during the day every 2 at night and the other pup every 2 hours. My last litter momma didnt get milk and rather then to risk the pups I bottle fed. Perhaps if I had not she would have gotten milk, but instead I fed 10 pups and didnt lose any. I was ok with that trade off.
Sometimes a shot of oxytocin will get milk flowing, sometimes it does not work. If you have the supplies and know how you can give fluids under the skin. Is the possibly dehydrated pup peeing? Is missy dehydrated? I usually give warm boullion water to a momma after birthing. Would be good to keep her well hydrated. Some cottage cheese is also good for moms.
Bottle feeding is not easy for even veteran dog breeders.I understand your feelings of being overwhelmed. In a short while once the pups are stable you will be able to cut back your feedings a bit esp at night.Good luck to you

[Danaus29]

Poor Missy. She's been through the wringer and probably doesn't want to have anything to do with the pups. Sometimes the drugs they give for surgery can cause milk production to decrease or stop completely. And the spay would alter her hormone levels severely. Maybe better to just go ahead and feed them, you don't want to take chances with the babies.

[jordan]

Here's a formula recipe if you need it. A breeder friend gave it to me "just in case". Can you get goats milk?
1 cup yogurt
2 egg yolks
1 can evaporated milk
1 can water
Mix well. (she mixes hers in a blender) and store in the refrigerator.
Good luck!
Lois

[lamoncha lover]

another formula the one I have used on baby squirrels and pups is
1 can evaporated milk
1 can water(says to boil but I have not)
1 egg yolk..egg white can be toxic so do not use the white
1 TBS karo syrup
I usually mix it well then strain it to get out egg membrane that clogs the nipple. I like this so much better then powdered clumpy formula.
How are they doing?

[Willowynd]

Though she has a c-csection, she birthed the first 2 pups naturally, so that should not be affecting her milk. That said, it takes 2 days for the first real milk to come in and surgery can delay that. Let the pups nurse as much as possible and just top them off. If they are dehydrated (make them tinkle- the urine should be pale- if darker then they are dehydrating) then you will need to give ringers sub-Q. This will also pep them up and make them nurse better. Also, I would be giving them nutri-drops. You can order this from KV vet and they will ship overnight. Nutri-drops is readily absorbable and provides energy to newborn pups almost immediately. I have brought fading puppies back with this and will never be without it on hand again as the one time I did not have it nothing else I used worked to bring the fading pups back. I have also used it to bring dehydrated baby bunnies around with great success. I have not found another product or home remedy that works as well. I give it to babies soon as they are born and then twice a day at weigh in time.
If mom's milk does not come in by tommorrow- go to the health food store and buy fenugreek. You give this to the bitch for a boxer- 2 caps 3x a day until she starts to smell like maple syrup- then she should ahve a good milk supply. Weight the pups twice a day to make sure they are gaining. If not, then you may have to supplement a bit more. You should see them gaining daily- don;t freak if one weigh in is the same...you will probably find next the pup increased.....but if no gain in 24 hours, then you need to check hydration and intake of the pup. I use a digital kitchen scale that weighs in grams....that way I can tell small gains. The above formulas are both good.

[TedH71]

Possible mastitis?

I would not give oxytocin after a Csection unless the vet okays it.
Brewers Yeast powder will help stimulate milk production. Easy on the doseage tho, because too much will cause loose stools in the bitch.
Do you have a feeding tube? I prefer that over bottle feeding, when only supplementing is needed. Don't want to do it too often though, because they need to keep that suck reflex. But getting the milk flow just right when bottle feeding can be difficult... I worry about aspiration when the milk comes out too fast from the nipple.

[lauriej57]

The larger pup seems to be doing better, we can see his weight gain. The little pup is doing somewhat better. He has more energy, he actually crawls around and we call him little wiggle worm when trying to feed him. I'll have to get a scale today so I can keep track. Because of the cleft, he has a harder time sucking. I've put a larger hole in a nipple to make it a little easier. If the little one makes it, he'll be staying with us, unless some really special person comes along that's willing to take on a special needs pup. I'm still not sure we did the right thing by not having him euthanized, but hubby always goes for the underdog and wanted to give him a fighting chance.

I was able to get a little bit of milk out of 3 of Missy's nipples last night, I'm going to check her again in a little while. Hopefully her milk is starting to come in.

Other than the milk issue, she is a really good mama, she hates when I take them away to feed them, but she does everything else for us. Keeps them warm, clean, eliminates them like she is supposed to. So, all we do have to do is feed them and give them back to her. We have to take the puppies and walk to the door with them in order to get her to outside and do her job.

Thanks for all the advise, I'll be checking into it.

[Willowynd]

The problem with cleft palates is that they can aspirate milk into the lungs (and later water), get pnuemonia and die. If the cleft is large (more than a hairline) and/or in the hard palate, I would be inclined to have it euthanized. If in the soft palate and just a hairline crack, they sometimes close up as the pup develops. The puppy with the cleft really should only be tube fed to avoid the aspiration pnuemonia. But now once weaning starts, you will have another issue...food can get caught in the palate and can be inhaled. Drinking water will also be inhaled. Thatb is why I would opt for euthanisia with a cleft- unless you have the money to spend to repair it.

[lauriej57]

I agree with you Willow. However, Friday was crazy, on Saturday, I couldn't even remember if I had fed my chickens or not.

Yesterday, we took the blanket back to the vet, that was used to create a sling bed to get Missy to the car and then into the house. I was able to ask a few more questions, thinking more clearly, and the little guy only has a cleft lip, as far as they can see. There is no opening inside the mouth, which is good news. They were, however, surprised that he was still alive.

Missy's milk is coming in, the big boy "fat boy" is doing great. I think little guy is actually starting to get some milk from her to. He just has a really hard time holding on to the nipple.

We're just going to keep on feeding and working with him. They'll be a week old tomorrow night, every day counts with him right now. Fat boy is controlling his own temperature now, and crawls around well. Little Guy crawls around well too, but is barely bigger than when he was born. What I am noticing though, is that Missy doesn't work to keep him close. I'm not sure if this because she now realizes something is wrong, or her instincts tell her that he should be able to keep himself warm to. I am going to watch him close in the next 24 hours and I may decide to separate him, with a heating pad. I hate to do that though, but I will if I have to.

[Willowynd]

Cleft lip is no biggy, he will just be a dribbler It should not prevent him from nursing effectively either as the suction is in the roof of the mouth towards the back. Put your finger in your mouth and suck on it and you will see what I mean....you can lift your lip with your finger and still get suction. If mom is not attending to him as much as the other, I would be checking his hydration level...could be he is dehydrating and she has given up on him....his temp could be falling as a result too. If he is latching on, I would hold him there to be sure "bruiser" doesn't keep knocking him off while surfing. Mom's inattention could also mean she knows something else is wrong with him, which is not uncommon when there is already one apparent midline defect. In cases that the dam repeated pushes away a pup, that pup will rarely make it even with round the clock care. They can sense what we cannot see. Just trying to prepare you, but I am right in there with you in hoping for the best for the little guy.

[Willowynd]

Cleft lip is no biggy, he will just be a dribbler It should not prevent him from nursing effectively either as the suction is in the roof of the mouth towards the back. Put your finger in your mouth and suck on it and you will see what I mean....you can lift your lip with your finger and still get suction. If mom is not attending to him as much as the other, I would be checking his hydration level...could be he is dehydrating and she has given up on him....his temp could be falling as a result too. If he is latching on, I would hold him there to be sure "bruiser" doesn't keep knocking him off while surfing. Mom's inattention could also mean she knows something else is wrong with him, which is not uncommon when there is already one apparent midline defect. In cases that the dam repeated pushes away a pup, that pup will rarely make it even with round the clock care. They can sense what we cannot see. Just trying to prepare you, but I am right in there with you in hoping for the best for the little guy.