Quantcast
Shiloh Shepherds...? - Homesteading Today
Homesteading Today

Come enter the Lehman's Aladdin Lamp Giveaway!

Go Back   Homesteading Today > Livestock Forums > Working and Companion Animals

Working and Companion Animals From Kittens to Homestead hounds, bring your dog and cat questions here!


Like Tree7Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 07/18/07, 10:13 PM
Kstornado11's Avatar  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,456
Question Shiloh Shepherds...?

I am intrigued by these beautiful dogs...anyone have any experiance regarding them? Any clue where to find one in eastern Kansas? For those of you who have never heard of them, take a look:

http://dogbreedinfo.com/shilohshepherd.htm

__________________

Please take the time to watch this video about Cerebral Palsy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0mrs4fpRv8

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07/18/07, 10:30 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UT
Posts: 3,796

in a nutshell extra large german sheperds linebred to reproduce the size & temperament of the foundation stock.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07/19/07, 12:03 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 774

Very few breeders are getting hips certified, despite a problem with dysplasia in the breed. Dogs usually have a soft temperament - makes a nice family pet, not a serious protection dog.

OverYonder likes this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07/19/07, 01:13 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 960

What MaryDVM said, plus the fact that the breeders are crazy political. If you like the look, just find a 'plush' or 'longcoated' puppy from a reputable GSD breeder.

OverYonder likes this.
__________________

"Dogs may not be our whole lives, but they make our lives whole." Roger Caras

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07/19/07, 08:03 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Southwestern Pennsylvania
Posts: 50

The mother of a girl I used to work with breeds them here in western Pennsylvania. From what I understand, they're 95% German Shepard with some husky and a few other breeds mixed in. And yes, it seems that there's quite a bit of nastiness going on between the breeders because none of them can agree on what exactly constitutes a "Shiloh Shepard" (i.e. colors, conformation, etc.). Plus, they're super pricey...this woman asks $1000 and up for one of her pups. That seems an awful lot to pay for a dog that's not recognized by the AKC and has no true breed standard!

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07/19/07, 09:08 AM
GoldenMom's Avatar  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 3,990

Yes they are great big German Shepherds. I've known two. One of them died at 2 of a genetic heart condition. Neither of them were well trained at all (you could hear them whining/crying from a block away when ever they had to come to the clinic), so my opinion of the breed is a bit jaded. They weren't mean at all though.

__________________

Sarah,

If there are no dogs Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.
-Will Rogers

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07/19/07, 03:30 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Michigan's thumb
Posts: 13,204

You will pay a lot of money for a dog that isn't AKC registered, which may or may not matter to you. Do alot of research first. They are known for having physical problems, including hip dysplasia. Educate yourself as to all of the medical problems they face, how prevalent the problems are, and which of them can be tested for. Any breeder worth his or her salt tests their breeding stock before breeding. A vet certification that a dog or puppy is healthy is not the same as testing.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07/19/07, 07:42 PM
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: southern CA
Posts: 1,159

Here's another big shepherd based on GSD's - http://kingshepherd.com

I believe these also have a bit of Great Pyrennes in them, as well as at least one other breed. They are not recognized by AKC, and are quite expensive.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07/19/07, 10:48 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UT
Posts: 3,796

as i prefer working dogs, you couldn't pay me to take an AKC registered dog of any breed. on second thought i would take one BUT ONLY if you gave me A LOT of money.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07/20/07, 12:08 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 960

Pops- wouldn't it make more sense, if you wanted say, a working GSD, to take a dual registered dog (like most working GSDs- imported dogs- are) that was already titled in Schutzhund or ringsport of some sort, than to take your average $100 from the newspaper no papers GSD puppy? I fail to see how AKC papers suddenly makes a dog's working instincts, evaporate.

One of the biggies on the Shilohs is that they aren't proven in any venues at all. No conformation titles, no obedience titles, no nothing to prove the 'better temperament' or anything than GSDs- just a lot of hype.

__________________

"Dogs may not be our whole lives, but they make our lives whole." Roger Caras

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07/20/07, 12:28 PM
beaglady's Avatar  
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corgitails
One of the biggies on the Shilohs is that they aren't proven in any venues at all. No conformation titles, no obedience titles, no nothing to prove the 'better temperament' or anything than GSDs- just a lot of hype.
This is one of the down sides to the breed not being AKC registered - less venues where they are eligible to be shown. UKC has the 'rare breed classes' for obedience, but only if the animal is spayed/neutered, so that doesn't help a bit if your goal is to prove breeding stock.

I used to track with a group from the Baltimore area, and there was a Shiloh Shepherd in my group. The woman did SAR with hers & it had a calm stable, but neither wimpy nor aggressive temperament. I remember talking with her about her frustration cause she had done lots of obedience training and had nowhere to show, cause of the breed.

There was another group of Shiloh Shepherd owners that used to attend a lcoal clubs conformation matches & I was much less impressed with them than the Maryland Shilohs. I just found the website of the woman I know from MD.
http://shilohshepherds.net/kennel.htm
__________________
Goat's Milk Soap, Lip Balm & Gardener's Hand Balm
www.brushwoodfarm.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07/20/07, 01:35 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 960

Actually, there's quite a few venues they can show in, and if people were serious, they could at least save semen, neuter the boys, and show them in ASCA, UKC, etc. And I'm fairly sure NADAC and USDAA don't have s/n requirements.

__________________

"Dogs may not be our whole lives, but they make our lives whole." Roger Caras

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07/20/07, 01:47 PM
beaglady's Avatar  
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corgitails
Actually, there's quite a few venues they can show in, and if people were serious, they could at least save semen, neuter the boys, and show them in ASCA, UKC, etc. And I'm fairly sure NADAC and USDAA don't have s/n requirements.
True about NADAC & USDAA. You mentioned conformation and obedience though, not agility. I think there's a new obedience venue or two since I was involved with it, that does allow any dog. APDT has rally for everyone. (I think) I was referring more to a conversation with a specific person (whose has females) that took place about 8 years ago. From her webiste, it does seem like she eventually found places to earn titles.
__________________
Goat's Milk Soap, Lip Balm & Gardener's Hand Balm
www.brushwoodfarm.com
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07/20/07, 02:30 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 960

well, conformation and obedience are my sports :P- I mostly meant performance in general.

I've been VERY unimpressed with the shilohs I've seen, frankly- they just aren't any sounder or healthier or smarter or more trainable than your average well-bred GSD, and the price tag's a lot higher. They're probably more suitable for a pet home that can't live with the moderate drive of most American obedience line and show line dogs, but I don't think that a breed should be dumbed down just for pet owners, you know?

__________________

"Dogs may not be our whole lives, but they make our lives whole." Roger Caras

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07/21/07, 12:18 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UT
Posts: 3,796

Corgitails
if i actually wanted a sheperd type PP dog i'd go w/ a dutch sheperd or imported GSD (east german or czech lines) trained in one of the sports w/ more fighting intensity & less sending & searching and forego AKC registration all together.
But since i prefer bull & mastiff types, i would actually go for a nice Lucero or Steeltrap Bandog, or Scott/Painter line American bulldog, and the Warlock line of Old Southern White AB, although Clinton Cilliers of South Africa has some outstanding performance Neos (not obese, unhealthy wrinkle monsters) and Alex at Red Star has some premo working Presa Canarios and John Blackwell's Boerboels are everything they should be and then there is Dom's Donovan Pinscher (still too sheperdy for me though).
As you can see not much in there is AKC registered and some never will be.
plain and simple AKC registration has not helped the working ability of any breed as a whole, EVER and has been detrimental to most because the AKC is most strongly oriented to conformation showing. that field is dominated by people who don't work and don't know what it takes for a dog to do the job it is bred for. further they usually affiliate w/breed clubs that think the same. then they usually change the personality of the breeds to make it more amenable to the show circuit and lose the working personality in the process. then they usually change the standard to glom onto a particular look that usually ruins the health of the breed.
yes, the impeccable history of the show fancy at preserving the working abilities is why there are show & field type pointers & setters, it's why boxers, danes & english bulldogs are pretty much absent from the boar hunting scene in the USA, its why western wolfers use coldblood greys, staghounds (linebred crosses of grey to deerhound or irish wolfhound) & shags (linebred crosses of grey to saluki or borzoi) to catch coyotes. do i really need to go on?

Allen W likes this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07/21/07, 09:20 AM
Wolf Flower's Avatar
Married, not dead!
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 2,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pops2
plain and simple AKC registration has not helped the working ability of any breed as a whole, EVER and has been detrimental to most because the AKC is most strongly oriented to conformation showing. that field is dominated by people who don't work and don't know what it takes for a dog to do the job it is bred for. further they usually affiliate w/breed clubs that think the same. then they usually change the personality of the breeds to make it more amenable to the show circuit and lose the working personality in the process. then they usually change the standard to glom onto a particular look that usually ruins the health of the breed.
The English Bulldog is a classic example of this. The Border Collie people and the Jack Russell Terrier people both fought (unsuccessfully) to keep their breed OUT of the AKC, as they fear it will ruin the breed. I believe their fears are well founded. American show-bred German Shepherds are a completely different animal than the European GSD, and it saddens me greatly to see a knock-kneed, hock-walking, needle-nosed bag of nerves they call a "German Shepherd" slinking through an AKC show looking like its eyes are going to pop out of its head.

I have no issue with conformation showing per se. It's just that conformation showing has become an end unto itself, and many breeders could care less about the qualities their breed came into being for. Fortunately, many others actively participate in field trials, schutzhund, obdience, tracking, earthdog trials, herding trials, and what have you. But it is not required, and so the common perception is that a "Champion" show dog is the pinnacle of what the breed should represent.

In Germany, German Shepherds are still required to pass a temperament test and working trial as well conformation in order to receive the show rating that would allow them to be bred. It's not a perfect system, but it is still worlds better than what we have with AKC.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07/21/07, 04:40 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UT
Posts: 3,796

Wolf Flower
"It's not a perfect system, but it is still worlds better than what we have with AKC."
AMEN brother
each breed based on it's origin should be titled or certified in it's area of work or a reasonable substitute for example the dane should have to start a track follow it and catch a boar or get a schutzhund title since both test trailing ability as well as fight drive. pitty's could be titled as catch dogs or ratting dogs in a rat pit. sighthounds would have to run down & catch appropriate game like jackrabbit, cottontail, fox coyote or deer. no title, no show champion!
fortunately there are already many organizations to facilitate this.
unfortunately Americans as a whole are now to bambified & squeamish.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07/21/07, 05:15 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Flower
In Germany, German Shepherds are still required to pass a temperament test and working trial as well conformation in order to receive the show rating that would allow them to be bred. It's not a perfect system, but it is still worlds better than what we have with AKC.
Although the German system may be somewhat superior to the AKC world, the GSD show people there have still managed to create their own mutant "highline" dog with a back so roached that it looks like the dog's rear is trying to outrun its front. The protection tests at the breed shows have been softened so much that they really don't tell you much about the dog's working ability(except how bad the ones who fail are). Even in Germany, if you want a real working dog, you stay away from show lines.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07/22/07, 10:06 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY
Posts: 3,177

Thats why my GSD's are Czech imports with strong border patrol/shutzhund backgrounds. They are what working dogs should be . I have pups placed with law enforecement , search and rescue etc. I have 3 pups currently available.


Patty

__________________

Milk Made Soaps & Lotions
Raising Saanen Dairy Goats , Icelandic Sheep , German Shepherds ,Registered Jersey cows , LGD

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07/22/07, 12:31 PM
Wolf Flower's Avatar
Married, not dead!
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 2,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARYDVM
Although the German system may be somewhat superior to the AKC world, the GSD show people there have still managed to create their own mutant "highline" dog with a back so roached that it looks like the dog's rear is trying to outrun its front. The protection tests at the breed shows have been softened so much that they really don't tell you much about the dog's working ability(except how bad the ones who fail are). Even in Germany, if you want a real working dog, you stay away from show lines.
Oh, I know that. But it is a step up compared to what we have in AKC to prove working temperament, which is absolutely nothing (unless you count the disqualification if the dog bites the judge). It could be really hard to watch American champions attempt a courage test, even as soft as it is... I envision dogs tripping over themselves to get out of the ring, screaming with terror and leaving a trail of urine as they go.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09/28/12, 03:51 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 43

I realize this topic was started five years ago but I was interested in current comments on the Shiloh Shepherds. Because of bad experiences with German Shepherds while a child, I am hesitant about possibly having one. However, I am wondering if a Shiloh would be a better choice. I would like a dog that barks when someone comes to our farm or they sense that something is not right. I don't want a dog that is quick to bite but would be a deterent. Recommended breeders?

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09/28/12, 03:59 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UT
Posts: 3,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hespa View Post
I realize this topic was started five years ago but I was interested in current comments on the Shiloh Shepherds. Because of bad experiences with German Shepherds while a child, I am hesitant about possibly having one. However, I am wondering if a Shiloh would be a better choice. I would like a dog that barks when someone comes to our farm or they sense that something is not right. I don't want a dog that is quick to bite but would be a deterent. Recommended breeders?
why waste your time & money on a dog you're going to be predisposed to distrust?
better to look for a breed that has the personality & function you're looking for.
__________________

it's not a sport unless the animal can kill you back

be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09/28/12, 09:37 PM
beccachow's Avatar
Animal Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 12,209

I don't have a lot to say. I took the cheap way out, got a dog with no pedigree from what I thought would be a reputable breeder; she had lots of championship show lines. She was selling these pups for very little money, comparatively speaking. I had gotten off the phone with Duke's breeder and been told that she now charges upwards of $2000 per puppy. I should have saved that money and gotten another big, gentle giant like the one that is now slipping away from me rather than this inbred monster I have now. She is too hyper, she is timid-aggressive and cannot be trusted around ANYONE outside of family. She is nearly untrainable...after a year and a half I still cannot keep her from jumping on me. SHe is too smart and too agile to keep penned up...if she isn't clearing gates like a Warmblood horse she is on the counter with all 4 feet opening cupboards and helping herself.

I would take temperment ANYTIME and have now learned the hard way...you pay $$ for temperment. The SHiloh shepherds are really only about as big as Duke was in his prime. I would hang tight and cruise the breeders who boast the large shepherds, then check on their policies for hips etc.

__________________

Becky


Last edited by beccachow; 09/28/12 at 09:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09/29/12, 02:59 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central Oregon
Posts: 6,025

In my personal opinion, the Shiloh Shepherd is a manufactured breed and not worth the money that they cost. Not much different than buying a labradoodle.

For what you pay for Shiloh Shepherd, you could buy an Alsatian type German Shepherd Dog , import it from Britain, have money left over, end up with an extremely well bred registered dog, and have your gigantic, gentle-natured, trust-worthy dog with multiple generations of hip and eye screening.

pamda likes this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09/29/12, 05:27 PM
Wolf Flower's Avatar
Married, not dead!
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 2,676

I don't think things have changed much with the breed in the past few years. Shiloh Shepherds resemble German Shepherds, but are oversize, mostly longhaired, and while some may be perfectly nice dogs, IMO it is not worth paying that much money for what is essentially a mixed breed that has no performance requirements. They still suffer from health and temperament problems. For dog that simply barks and looks intimidating, you could do just as well to adopt a big black dog from the shelter for much less money.

pamda likes this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09/29/12, 08:04 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ontario-Home Sweet Home!
Posts: 2,957

Have neve met any Shilohs personallly but I do know that the Seeing Eye in Morristown nj has LH GSD's crop up in their breeding program quite often. I have met quite a few of those dogs and found them quite stable compared to some of the run of the mill AKC show dogs and their prOgeny. I would educate yourself more about the breed, learn heir genetic issues amd research breeders amd buy from one who does test and keeps immaculate records. The best thing is to learn about the breed youreinterested in and take your time picking a puppy.

__________________

Do not Lead for I will Not Follow
Do not Follow for I shall Not Lead
I am but a Simple Drummer

Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09/29/12, 08:55 PM
Haven's Avatar
I agree with Pancho
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,957

How about a Belgian Shepherd or Belgian Tervuran? They are longer haired Shepherds and seem very moderate physically (moderate angles on the hips and fronts) and temperament-wise..at least the ones I have been around at shows.

__________________
~Winter~Antonio Vivaldi - Concerto No.4 in F minor, Op.8, RV 297~
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09/29/12, 09:33 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UT
Posts: 3,796

i stand by what i said earlier. if you have a bad history w/ dogs of sheperd type, you're better off getting anything else. at least you'll have a better chance of giving it an honest effort.

__________________

it's not a sport unless the animal can kill you back

be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet

Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09/29/12, 09:38 PM
Haven's Avatar
I agree with Pancho
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,957

That is true Pops. I can't tell you how many people bring me Golden Doodle Poodle mixes then proceed to tell me how much they hate Poodles and do not want it to look like a Poodle. Half of them have Poodle coats and look like Standard Poodles with undocked tails. I really want to say to them "then why did you pay 800.00 for a Poodle mix?!"

__________________
~Winter~Antonio Vivaldi - Concerto No.4 in F minor, Op.8, RV 297~
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09/29/12, 10:20 PM
Wolf Flower's Avatar
Married, not dead!
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 2,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haven View Post
I can't tell you how many people bring me Golden Doodle Poodle mixes then proceed to tell me how much they hate Poodles and do not want it to look like a Poodle.
Yes! I just had a client yesterday with a Goldendoodle...she told me that the last groomer "made him look like a Poodle" ... and she said this with such a sneer, as though her dog wasn't basically a standard Poodle with a tail. His coat was all Poodle curl, so of course once that coat is bathed, force-dried and brushed out, it's going to look Poodley no matter what.

I told her that the "Poodle" look would go away in a few days, after the hair clumps together and curls up again.

pamda and Haven like this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:25 PM.