how do kids correct a growl?

[MamaDee]

O.K., me again, the Boston Terrier lady. Since apparently we let Sophie become alpha with the kids I want to make sure we don't repeat with our one year old Pug, Ming.

You have all taught me alot about teaching Ming not to get away with what we let Sophie do. I have been doing alot of reading about dominant aggression and have been taking that advice.

Ming likes to chase and bark at running kids and we have stopped him now--correcting him. He's already better about it. He is fine with his food. We make him sit for it, etc. Unlike Sophie, he lets the kids hug on him, lay next to him and hug him also. He does not get up on the furniture unless we call him. If he does, he is corrected and must get down. He is not allowed on the bed.

What can the kids do if I am not there, though? Just now Ming was asleep on a pillow on the floor. My 8 year old son came and sat down next to him. Ming looked up and gave a little growl! What the heck? Does Ming think he's moving on up the ladder b/c he sees Sophie's authority being challenged? I know just what I would have done had I been sitting there--but I wasn't. My son came and told me. He said he looked down at Ming and said sternly, "No growling!" Ming then got up and walked away.

What can the kids do if I'm not there to show the dogs who is in charge? They are at a disadvantage b/c of their size, I know. I don't want Ming to turn out like Sophie did. I'm about ready to give up and the whole dog thing.

It's hard enough calling around looking for a home for Sophie with the kids crying in the background. I don't want to have to do the same for Ming.

Dee

[crazyniki73]

I would watch The Dog Whisperer, Ceasar Milan. He deals with this everyday . He has a DVD out also If you dont have National geographic Channel.He is GREAT!!
Will your Dog Roll on his back if you nudge her over(pushing her neck?) If she does this easily then have the kids near as you do it. This will get her in a submissive mind around the kids. As she gets used to this the kids should be able to lay her down just like you did. Remember to stay CALM, BREATH,And Assume Leadership! Walking your dog on a leash while being in this stae of mind encourages submissiveness also.This doest mean your dog will be shy or afraid of you, its just that shell respect you as her leaders.
Best of luck with both of your dogs! Where are you located? Small dogs around here are very popular, even with the history of your Boston.

[jen74145]

Well, was it a GROWL, or perhaps Ming was just saying hello? My Harley is a talker, moans, yips, whines, and even growls... but it's his body language that tells me he isn't being aggressive, he's saying hello. Look at these...
http://wolfology1.tripod.com/id15.htm
http://www.wagntrain.com/BodyLanguage.htm

I'm not sure if your kids should try to establish dominance if Ming starts having issues... sometimes the dog will fight back, and I wouldn't want one of the kids bitten. Honestly, if I had a dog challenge kids, I might get rid of him and take care to select a non-alpha pup next time so the kids can show their dominance as a matter of course that won't be challenged.

[jen74145]

Originally Posted by crazyniki73

I would watch The Dog Whisperer, Ceasar Milan. He deals with this everyday . He has a DVD out also If you dont have National geographic Channel.He is GREAT!!

Okay, yes, but his left arm is also swiss cheese. I'd say he's run into a couple dogs over the years who wouldn't back down. Not something for a kid to attempt, YKWIM?
I'm hoping this all goes well and Ming is just fine with the pack structure...

[Maura]

Please do not alpha roll your dog.

When Ming got up and walked away, she was defeated. So, your son did just fine. Ming doesn't really have a Lordship to protect, he's just testing the waters at this point. The waters are too deep and cold.

[JasoninMN]

Mamadee if I remember correctly your son has been no angel around the dogs. Wasn't your son the one riding the boston terrier? I honestly would not trust either one to be left alone together. Sorry but I don't think your son has demonstrated that he is trust worthy around dogs yet and this is a bad recipe for disaster. They need to work together when you are present on obedience routines, such as sit, down and stay so he can demonstrate his dominance is a nonphysical way and play times needs to be supervised too. If you need to leave them alone together I suggest crating one of them. Too bad for the dog its illegal to crate kids....lol

[dezeeuwgoats]

I agree with Maura. If the dog got up and walked away, the kid won. I wouldn't have a kid force an alpha roll on a dog either.

I'd say supervision is important too, especially if you can't trust the kid to make wise decisions around the dog. I think it is always an issue - as neither kids nor animals are predictable!

Another way to reinforce would be to have the alpha (hopefully you!) next to the kid while the kid goes through giving commands, etc., - with you enforcing it if the dog does not comply. I think this is supposed to 'transfer' your authority to your younger children and help the dog understand that it is to obey them also.

Niki

[GrannyCarol]

I am not familiar with your history with the other dog, but your child did ok with Ming there.

One thing I would suggest is to actually train Ming simple obedience commands (gently and kindly, but do teach him to obey) and help teach your children to work with him too. If your kids are younger, be careful that they are not left unsupervised with the dog. Younger children just don't have impulse control and will do things that are rough on the dog without meaning to. Often they just don't realize that it would hurt the dog or upset it.

Insist that the children are gentle with the dog and not in it's face or wild with it. Also, I agree not to do alpha rolls, but if you can gently roll the dog over without resistance and rub its tummy, having the children be a part of that is good training for submissiveness and trust. Be sure that, if the dog will calmly allow this, it does not have its trust abused.

Small dogs often feel very threatened if kids get in their face and if they feel cornered, keep an eye out for those situations.

[MamaDee]

Mamadee if I remember correctly your son has been no angel around the dogs. Wasn't your son the one riding the boston terrier? I honestly would not trust either one to be left alone together. >>>>>>>

No that was my daughter, five, pretending to ride the Boston. I do have five kids...it's hard to keep track. : )

I think my son did fine with the Pug, Ming, too. But I don't trust my dog training judgement right now...I thought we were doing the right thing with Sophie, too. But I'm learning. I was in the room, just not close enough to make a timely correction. I think DS, age 8, did fine.

It's good to know I can do stuff with Ming when the kids are with me and that will help. That's what we're working on now. And the kids know now to correct any misbehavior with a low, firm voice. They know not to get physical. Thanks everyone for your help.

Any training suggestions to help with the kids are welcome!

Dee

[ForMyACDs]

do a google search for "NILIF" (Nothing In Life Is Free). an excellent non-confrontational way of dealing with a dominant dog.

unfortunately, correcting behavior is one thing.....correcting a growl is another. if you correct a dog for growling (their version of a warning) you are on the path of creating a dog that bites without warning. correct the basic behavior by using the NILIF on a regular basis and that will help to remove the dominance that is causing the growling to begin with.

[havenberryfarm]

There is an old saying, "let sleeping dogs lie". Ming was asleep when your son came up and sat down. My dogs are no where near alpha with my kids, but they have been known to growl when awakened from a dream. (You know, the kind where they are twitching and running in their sleep) I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just keep an eye out for other alpha behavior.
We are therapeutic adoptive parents and our kids are no angels around our animals. I keep a very close eye on them, but I also kept my dogs on a leash at all times until they were well trained. They were both at my side where I could easily correct or praise them until they learned their manners. It helps to select a dog who is very tolerant, but most dogs can be trained to deal with kids if you stick with it and be consistant.
Another thing that really helps is training your children how to behave around a dog. You would be surprised what they do not know. Simply teaching them a few basics like dog body-language, not waking the dog, and not bothering a dog during his mealtime can really help. The body language thing is key, because they can use it whenever they do something that the dog does not like. I.E. "Hmmm. Ming put his ears back and lowered his tail when I ___________. Maybe he doesn't like that."

[Tam319]

I would not suggest anyone alpha role a dog.

Also, correcting a dog for growling has its own problems. At an Ian Dunbar seminar I attended he explained that growling is the dog's way of warning you that he is uncomfortable and if things escalate he will bite. Correcting for growling doesn't solve the problem that caused the dog to growl in the first place. It just removes that warning so you end up with a dog that bites without warning. Does that make sense?

Furthermore, I would not leave your dogs and children unattended...ever.

You are dealing with serious issues here and you need to seek out the assistance of a qualified professional dog trainer. I wouldn't mess around with trying to solve these issues on your own. You need professional guidance. A trainer will be able to work with you, your dogs and your kids before things escalate. It is a matter of safety!