dog question (1st heat)

[neal68]

we have a purebred black lab (she will be 2 on march 26) and i was wondering when she has her 1st heat if is it like humans (the show of blood)? this is the first time we have had a unspayed dog.
btw does any one have a registered black lab stud that we can get the two of them together sometime so she can have pups?

[cricket]

Some dogs show and some don't. Some keep themselves imaculate and others are a wreck. The real sign is the swelling of the vulva and change in behavior.

As to the 2nd question, I won't respond...

[chma4]

Cricket, I am impressed, and I too, will not say exactly whats on my mind. What I will say is that maybe you would like to do a little more research before you decide to go the "puppy" route. Please find out what you are getting yourself into before you do this.

[cricket]

I thought I was remarkable self controlled....

[longshadowfarms]

Interesting that she is almost 2 and has not had a heat cycle yet. Maybe she has and you have not noticed before. I am in NY and in touch with quite a few Lab breeders. Do you plan to have her hips and elbows x-rayed for OFA certification? There is a clinic in Rochester each winter (shoot, probably soon or maybe past) to have eyes checked for PRA. If you are close to Cornell the guy who does the clinics has offices there and probably does clinics from time to time there.

[fellini123]

And you might want to read the "Ethical Breeding" sticky at the top of the page, before you start looking for a "stud dog.

Alice in Virginia

[melina]

By all means, please have your girl OFA tested before you consider breeding her. Hip dysplasia is a tragic disease and it is especially prevalent in Labs. I know, I had to have a 4 year old Lab euthanized because she already had a terrible case. Most ethical breeders will have had their breeding stock screened, back-yard breeders seldom do.
That said, if she's nearly two and you haven't seen a heat cycle yet, something's amiss. She should have had her first cycle somewhere between 9 months and 18 months.
You may be feeling a bit put upon by the breeding police here (and I consider myself one) but we have more dogs, especially poorly bred Labs, than we can handle. Look at the numbers; in 2005 in the month of November alone, there were 9,745 labs registered, representing 3,463 litters. Just in one month! In 2006, the numbers were down slightly, 8.548 puppies representing 3,302 litters in Nov. These numbers are listed in the current issue of AKC Gazette. Do the math, multiply those #'s by 12. That's how many labs there are out there, being born every year. Yes, they are popular. It's by far the largest # of purebred dogs being registered by AKC, and you might think you're going to get rich breeding them. The fact is, unless your girl has a pedigree a mile long and you are actively showing her or she's trained as a topnotch gundog, her babies aren't worth more than $50 to $100 each. If you feed her well during pregnancy, vaccinate, worm and vet the puppies as you should, you won't make much profit. You will probably have to give away a couple of the stragglers, you will have advertising costs, the mess and bother of taking a half dozen or more babies up to the 8 week stage (no, you can't just wean them early and sell them at 5-6 weeks, etc. Been there, done that when I was young, foolish and didn't understand the problem of pet over-population.
OK, rant over.

[Cashs Cowgirl]

Here Cricket...I'll be the uncontrolled one today :

I love the oh, and do any of ya'll have a registered lab I could breed her to...like, no big deal...no homework to do, lets just breed her cause she's registered! Not only that, a person who doesn't understand his 2 year old labs cycle doesn't need to be breeding it... Doing it this way is just as bad as breeding two mutts.

Neal, head to your local shelter and see how many labs are probably already there. Then don't forget all the testing on your female and to ask for testing on the male...will these pups be an improvement to the breed or just a way to 'make money' cause trust me, when done the right way, not much money will be made until a person is well established in the breeding world...

Oh and here is someones contribution to the lab breed, my rescue Duke:


No one got money off him...he and another were dumped probably after they couldn't find a home for them and he was hit by a car...he didn't cost them anything, but it cost him pain and me money because of their ignorance.

ok....off my now....

[Lynnette]

Duke is sooooo beautiful! Sorry to hear about his misfortune. I have 2 labs, neither are registered because 1 is a chocolate balck cross and the other was a result of a back yard breeder not keeping a close eye and not knowing who the daddy was. One was given away in the paper for nothing and the other was a stary who noone claimed, or bothered to look for to my knowledge. I have a sister who just bought a registered chocolate lab and wants to breed her to make back some of the money on it, I disagree and I am not saying anymore, I side with the breeding police here in the original poster and my sister's case.

[melina]

FYI, chocolate labs and blacks, and yellows, for that matter, can be crossed, often are, and litters can be all 3 colors.

[JasoninMN]

Having worked at a shelter for a couple years I can tell you from experience there are not that many people looking for labs or their puppies. They are a dime a dozen look in any newpaper or go to any shelter. Most people don't want black dogs. We often get people asking us to take the litter they bred and find the puppies homes since they are getting too old and past the cute stage. They usually add in " they are purebred and the shelter could keep whatever they make off them" OH THANK YOU, what a gracious donation. I have yet to figure out why everyone finds it necassary to breed labs and pitbulls when the shelters are over flowing with them and thousands are euthanized. You can't tell me this bitches puppies are going to be any better then the ones that never found a home.

[4rnubians]

There is a health clinic in NJ on Sunday, February 18th, JSLRC will be holding our
annual All Breed Health clinic

If you would like more info let me know

[neal68]

I came on asking a question hoping to get just an answer. Never expecting to get the response that I did. Another reason why I was asking was for research, and of course when I did get a hold of the vet today I talked to her to. We are not looking to be breeders, she "HAS" been to the vets, she is up to date on her shots, she "HAS" had blood work, ex-rays, and does not have dysplasia. Also for those of you that were so pleasent we have had family members that have asked that if we DID get her bred they would like a pup, because she has such a great personallity, we were hoping to find another dog with the same personallity "IF" we did breed her. Yes I could have phrased the question better, but there was a lot of assumptions made with One question. I have been a member of this site for awhile and never had a question treated like this. I didn't mean for it to become a page for debate it was just a question. I'm sorry for the apparent inconvience that I have caused. Oh and to put your "minds" to rest she was to the vets "again" today and she is fine, and this was not her first heat, just the first we noticed. As far as the pet over population rate we are well aware of it. We have also helped at our local shelter, we have adopted unwanted pets, in fact we just adopted two cats that were abandoned, and our daughter volunteers her time there. We live on a farm, and love animals, and before you assume anything else the other animals (ie: 2dogs, and three cats) are all spayed and neutered.When we bought Honey it was because we researched, for more than six months, to find the dog that would be best to have with children, and found that they have the best dispostion to have with children exspecially little ones like we have. I just wanted to thank you all for being so nice and pleasent and not jumping to conclusions the way that you all apparently did. Not one of you even asked me what I was doing you just assumed that we/I were going to be breeders, when it wasn't that at all. I do hope that if someone does ask a similar question in the future you will ask what that quetion is about before you start slaming them the way you did me. I know I will. Not everyone out there runs a puppy mill or are in just for the money.

[chma4]

Originally Posted by neal68

we have a purebred black lab (she will be 2 on march 26) and i was wondering when she has her 1st heat if is it like humans (the show of blood)? this is the first time we have had a unspayed dog.
btw does any one have a registered black lab stud that we can get the two of them together sometime so she can have pups?

Im sorry Neal, but let me understand you, asking if you could get them "together so she can have pups", you did not mean breed them? Many of us approached this topic as softly as possible. Even if you DO have homes for all these pups, you have NO idea the amount of work required to raise a litter, what type of pups you would get, or what risks it places on "Honey". I AM sorry you were offended, but based on your question "When she has her first heat is it like humans?" proves you just do not know what you NEED to know to make an informed decision on the matter. I am sorry, but I think that alot of peole here handled this comment rather well. The suggestions for OFA testing were good advice, and that does not mean go to the vet and get her her shots, but it is obvious that you are unaware of what is intaled. No one is blasting you for wanting to breed a great dog, people are worried that you dont know what is intaled, what can happen, go wrong etc. I , in the past have ridiculed this site for being "harsh and jumping to conclusions", but we didnt jump to conclusions, you gave them to us. Each and every post I have read here in this thread was helpful and full of valid advice, take it from a breeder. If you are looking for advice on what you need to know before beginning, I am here anytime as well as many other VERY well informed proffessionals, but if you come on looking "to get together your bitch with a dog" expect hesitation and some raised brows. Hope I dont upset anyone, but its just my observation=(

[jen74145]

Originally Posted by neal68

Also for those of you that were so pleasent we have had family members that have asked that if we DID get her bred they would like a pup, because she has such a great personallity, we were hoping to find another dog with the same personallity "IF" we did breed her.

Mmhmm... do you know how many times I've heard this from someone parked on "puppy row" outside the grocery store with a truck bed full of pups? People say this all the time, but when it comes time to take a pup, you'll find most, if not all, never really meant what they said.

Then, what do you do with the 2-12 pups? My two adopted pups came from a family that loved them so, but those nine pups and their mother were tearing through TWO HUNDRED POUNDS OF FOOD a WEEK.

Which brings me to my next point: The true costs of breeding

When pregnant, an animal will eat twice what it normally does. When nursing, three times the usual amount. I'm telling ya, my kittens make me seriously consider buying stock in Nutro!
Then, there's worming, vaccinations (my vet charges twenty bucks a head each time), health checks, advertising, puppy supplies, birthing supplies, the loss of time/income/sleep when sitting up for three nights on the bathroom floor with an expectant mama, spending two weeks bottle raising rejected/weak babies and losing them anyway, the heartache burying those little babies.... or burying their beloved mother. Then there's the pain of having utter FOOLS come out and try to buy a kitten/pup from you, and though you turn them away, it causes you to seriously doubt the human species. THEN you must keep track of the pup for it's entire life, making sure it is always well cared for, NEUTERED OR SPAYED, and being ready to take it back at a moment's notice, whether it be six months old or twelve years. You'll call the owners several times over the first few months they have the animal to make sure all is well, then call yearly to make sure the animal has remained healthy and strong.

Now mind you, I haven't included any of mama's (and papa's!) prenatal testing and care, nor the cost of showing or working the animal (which you really ought to do before breeding, no sense breeding anything without the makings of a champion)... there's tons I've left out, but it is late and I am tired.

Also, my two mutt pups have GREAT personalities... doesn't mean I should breed them. My 14 month old bengal, son of my original pair, is the sw3eetest cat imaginable; comes when called, gives kisses, constantly purring. BUT, he is of definite pet quality, so he is neutered.

Just trying to be as honest with you as people were kind enough to do with me.

[melina]

I make absolutely no apology for my post. Anytime someone has to ask when a bitch's first heat cycle will be, then in the next breath asks about a stud, I can assume that person has no business breeding dogs. Period.

[thequeensblessing]

It's America, and if you want to breed your dog, you have every right to do so. Period.

It's America, and if the self-proclaimed "puppy police" want to rant, they have the right to do so. Period

To those who want to learn by asking experienced folks their thoughts without getting "slammed", this isn't it. Believe me...this forum is NOT the place to come asking questions about breeding your dog if you are not a "professional" breeder. This is not a newbie friendly place for such questions, sad to say.

[fellini123]

Originally Posted by neal68

...... btw does any one have a registered black lab stud that we can get the two of them together sometime so she can have pups?

Yet you say you do not want to be "breeders." What would you call yourself if you "get the two of them together sometime so she can have pups?"
I think I can say with a clear conscience that would be the defination of a Backyard Breeder. Someone wanting to have pups with no real knowledge of dogs, heat cycles, what it takes to raise a litter......you get the idea!!

Anyway, your vet cannot tell if if Honey has dysplasia. This can only be done by taking Xrays, and having an experienced radiloigist (sp) (xray reader!!) to read them. Most reputable breeders send them to OFA, Orthopedic Foundation of America, to be evaluated.

Ok enough from me.
Alice in Virginia

[Snafu177]

I looked for along time for a Pup.
Kept finding these so called Breeders with 5 Females and a Male that that were out of control and in small Kennels.
But after sometime we found someone like Neal68 with great tempered and well mannered Dogs.When picking out the Pup the parents were right there with you.
Well My Dog is a perfect Dog.
So dont assume he will not do a good Job at this.

[Bearfootfarm]

"To those who want to learn by asking experienced folks their thoughts without getting "slammed", this isn't it. Believe me...this forum is NOT the place to come asking questions about breeding your dog if you are not a "professional" breeder. This is not a newbie friendly place for such questions, sad to say."

That seems to be very true. Ive also noticed there seems to be a double standard about dogs and other animals. No one suggests we not breed our (fill in livestock here), but if its a dog all of a sudden there are lots of " you should do this first" comments. I realize a lot of people breed for the "wrong " reasons". That doesnt mean, though, that everyone has to have a "Champion" to consider breeding.

A lot of the "testing" done is a feel good measure since it wont insure the dogs wont get the problems. PRA, for example, may not show up at all until a dog is 8-9 years old. It doesnt HURT to test, but it doesnt always help anything either

Unplanned breeding is the cause of most shelter animals, along with people abandoning pets no longer wanted. And not everyone who breeds dogs that arent "show" dogs is necessarily wrong for doing it.

Im sure Ill get flamed for this but it wont be the first time someone has disagreed with me LOL