Still in planning stage, thinking of going different direction.

Maxpowers · #1 06/28/12, 08:43 PM

I've got 2.5 acres pastured, with another 2.5 that I'm planning to fence in the next year or two. I'm in SE Michigan in the Ann Arbor area.

I wanted a small flock for meat, was thinking of starting with about 6. Wanted to go with Katahdins, it seemed the logical choice with the wool just being a hassle. For my small operation I figured a rent a ram operation would be the best route.

Problem is that I'm problems finding any lambs. My kids 4H leader gave me a contact but that dude ended up flaking out on me. Considering the difficulty I'm having finding lambs I'm wondering what it would take to find a genetically compatible ram every year.

There are actually sheep farms all around me, sheeps with wool on them. So I'm thinking I may be way better off stopping in and talking to these guys, see what they have and seeing if I could just go with whatever is popular around here.

Ross · #2 06/28/12, 08:54 PM

Wool.... is a money making crop if you treat it as such. Going with a locally available breed is sensible and likely to be easier to deal with. If your plan is to make a profit in cash you don't want bottle babies, if you just want reliable meat in t he freezer you could just get orphans and raise them for the freezer. No breeding or shearing just feed and eat. Sounds like you want a micro flock. Then definitely go with whats popular, you'll need replacement rams and even an occasional ewe, so think what you can do with the wool or find more hair sheep breeders.

Maxpowers · #3 06/28/12, 09:51 PM

Me and my wife are turning our 10 acres into a hobby farm. If we can get a profit that'd be icing on the cake but my top priority is feeding my family quality food. My wife is interested in using some wool herself if we do end up with wool sheep.

PNP Katahdins · #4 06/28/12, 11:46 PM

Katahdin ewe lambs are in big demand every year. They are a good medium-sized meat breed. Many breeders sell out right away or even have everything presold before birth. I could sell lots more than we have this year, and that's with little advertising. Bred ewes also go fast. My customer inquiry book has been a waiting list for several months. I do let people know that though, rather than refuse to return calls.

I believe there are more Katahdins in Indiana and Ohio than lower Michigan.

Ram for sale are a lot easier to find. Ram rental is another matter due to biosecurity concerns to start with. I'd never rent one out or let ewes come here for breeding. Did that once for a neighbor and never again

So you may have to get some wool sheep from a local seller. Good luck.

Peg

sheepish · #5 06/29/12, 05:44 AM

Don't even consider a "rent a ram operation." You will be opening your flock to whatever diseases are on the flocks your ram goes to. It is an excellent way to expose your home flock to everything under the sun.

Callieslamb · #6 06/29/12, 07:23 AM

If your wife is interested in the wool, have her try different kinds of fleeces to see what she likes best and go for those sheep. There are folks here that can help her out with that- or in Howell, MI, there's the Spinning Loft - lots of difference fleeces available - some already washed even. check them out online. There are some really good crossbreeds out there that produce good meat and wool. I have corriedale x finns that are wonderful! In a small flock, shearing isn't nearly the problem is it with a large flock. You don't have to shear them all the same day and the fleece doesn't have to come off all in one piece.

If you buy breeds that are more easily found locally, you might also have an easier time selling them. Check out the MI sheepbreeders directory for more flocks and breeds.

Maxpowers · #7 06/29/12, 08:10 AM

If you don't rent a ram then how do you breed them each year? Keep a small portion fenced off to keep the ram by himself?

Ross · #8 06/29/12, 08:12 AM

See if there is a local weavers and spinners guild or club, they may have a selection of different wools to examine and ideas what you can do with wool. Maybe even a market.

Kato2010 · #9 06/29/12, 10:03 AM

I'm a spinner, and have just gotten into the sheep business as well. Our first priority was to get sheep that would be worth something as market animals, and if the wool was good to spin, that would be the bonus. We found some Canadian Arcott sheep that were from a good high health herd, and have started with 10 bottle babies. I don't think you can get these sheep in the U.S., but basically the breed was developed with Suffolk and Rambouette seedstock. The wool is nice to spin, so I'm happy.

Preferences among spinners are varied. I second the recommendation that your wife try different fleeces. If she really wants to see if she likes working with home raised fleece, she should try and get ahold of some raw fleece, and experiment with processing it. Personally, that's one of my favourite parts of the whole adventure.

There can be a huge variation in the type of wool from breed to breed. It can go anywhere from short and crimpy to long and lusterous. And every type has it's supporters. The fiber arts threads on this website would be a good place to lurk or ask questions. Also ravelry.com has several groups of sheep farmers on it's website that are a terrific resource.

I hear the price of wool is up now too, so it may not be a liability anyway.

Callieslamb · #10 06/29/12, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxpowers

If you don't rent a ram then how do you breed them each year? Keep a small portion fenced off to keep the ram by himself?

I have two rams and keep them separated Aug through breeding season. Then they all go back together in one flock until the next August. However, you could keep one until breeding, send him to the butcher and get a new one the next year. I have one little ram we are doing that with this year. We haven't butchered one of ours yet, so we'll use him to breed some of the cross ewes and then send him to the butcher ( and after his fleece is long enough to use).

Maxpowers · #11 06/29/12, 11:52 PM

How much space do you give your individual rams? Also just found out there's a livestock auction in my town every week. I understand that's not the best place to buy any livestock but it could be worth checking out.

sheepish · #12 06/30/12, 05:35 AM

We sell breeding stock.

The only adult animals we send to a livestock auction are old, diseased or unproductive.
The lambs we send are the lowest quality of the year's crop, below our replacement breeding stock, breeding stock sales and freezer lambs.

Even if there are decent animals to be found at your local auction they have been exposed to a pool of animals with questionable disease status.

If that is how you want to establish your flock, I wish you lots of luck. That is the only way you will succeed.

As to your question about rams. For our flock of 70 ewes, we keep 3 or 4 rams for our own use. They rotate among 3 paddocks, 1/4, 1/2 and and acre. Sometimes they get hay. From September to May they are with the rest of the flock.

If we need new genetics we buy from a certified high health status flock or use artificial insemination.

Plowpoint · #13 06/30/12, 09:22 AM

I would not worry too much about wool. The woolies tend to be a heavier carcass animal anyway so the cost of shearing is negated by the increase in meat production.

I just talked with a lady yesterday who went from Dairy Sheep to Katadins and was shocked when I did the math for her. Just to use an example, a Suffolk has a larger carcass size the a Katadin at between 250-350 pounds. With a 47% slaughter loss percentage (using the least live weight which is conservative), you get a hang weight of 118 pounds.

With a katadin, you get a live weight of about 150 pounds which is on the upper side, and so with a slaughter loss percentage of 47%, you get a hang weight of 71 pounds.

That is a difference of 47 pounds. Figuring lamb is worth $2.00 per pound (a conservative number since I am finding $5 per pound all over the internet), a woolie farmer would make an additional $94 just by having woolies. Now we know shearing costs a mere $5 per head so let me ask you this...

Wouldn't you rather want to pay $5 per head and make those same sheep produce an additional $94 dollars in meat sales? put another way since you said you wanted 6 sheep; do you want to raise 708 pounds of lamb, or 426 pounds? Or in the case of a production sheep farmer, instead of raising 150 sheep, they would have to raise 210 sheep. Keep in mind these numbers are based on a LOW woolie weight, and a HIGH Katadin weight, so it is a worst case versus best case scenario! It is also figuring a very low lamb price. If it was the average price of lamb of $5 per pound, a farmer would make an additional $235 dollars in a worst case scenario.

Now consider this as well...whether you have woolies or not, you must trim their hooves, deworm, inoculate, and do other general sheep care. For a woolie farmer, this stuff is done on shearing day with deworming, hoof trimming and shearing done for $5 per head. So even if I was to get NOTHING for the wool, I am still ahead money wise then if I had Katadins, and if NOTHING ELSE, I have a couple hundred pounds in compost material.

Of course that is NOT the case. I do get something for my wool, about 29 cents per pound, or about $2.82 per sheep. So Already my shearing cost has been cut from $5 per head to $2.18 and 2/3 of what is done would still have to be done on a Katadin!! Again, wouldn't you you spend $2.18 per sheep to make AT THE MINIMUM, $94 dollars per sheep to do what you mostly have to do anyway!!

No matter how you do the math, the small carcass size of a Katadin just does not add up. Yes Katadin farmers make money, but they would make a whole lot more if they would go with woolies. It has nothing to do with wool either, it has to do with carcass size and conversion factors.

Maxpowers · #14 06/30/12, 01:58 PM

Thanks for all of the information.

I still haven't found what's in my immediate area but I'm finding some Shetlands in the surrounding area. I found one person selling a large group(50) of Cheviot cross ewes, aged 1-3. He said he bought them a month ago, so that whole thing seemed kind of wierd to me

Couple of new questions as I look around.

Do newly transported lambs do better with a minimum flock size? For example I've been told that if you buy a new calve and it doesn't have a herd to join it has a much lower survival rate. I found someone with 2 shetland lambs left. While starting with 2 would probably be good for newb like myself, I'm concerned about how well they would do by themselves.

Also, aside from relying on other people, how can I transport them? I currently do not have a trailer. But I do have a minivan and a F-350 with a bed cap.

Ross · #15 06/30/12, 03:35 PM

Shetlands are for wool and really too small for meat, Cheviots typically have poor wool (kinda depends on which chevy and what they're cross bred to. If I were startign over instead of getting out I would find 2 or 3 really good lambs of the breed I wanted and build from there. or if I could swing it, 10-12 ewes. They would be pure bred and papered.
I would use the truck to haul them and if I could I'd crate them in dog boxes or built plywood so they weren't tossed about.

Plowpoint · #16 07/02/12, 05:34 PM

Nothing wrong with transporting sheep in the back of capped truck beds...seriously, a lot of professional sheep farmers do that.

If that just does not seem right to you, or if you prefer a different method, you can always rent a ewe-haul (U-Haul-pun intended) trailer. I have done this on occasion myself when I wanted to move a few sheep around. There is nothing in the paperwork at U-Haul that says you can't...and I read the fine print carefully! I don't tell them what I am moving, just say "moving some stuff around" and leave it at that and hose the trailer out really well out of respect for those that use it after me. I even bleach it to kill any thing.

I'll even tell you a little secrete about sheep farming that will keep you sane and let you lose any guilt you feel about making due with what you have. If I am talking down to you here, I certainly do not mean to, its just that people start off on the wrong foot with sheep.

Sheep Farming is a Low-Overhead, Low-Tech type of farm.

I grew up on a dairy farm which is a High Overhead, and High Tech type of farm to run, so it took me awhile to realize that with sheep, anyway you can get the job done cheaply, is the best way to do it. I have actually had full grown Montadale Rams in the back of my Ford Focus sedan!! LOL

bruce2288 · #17 07/03/12, 12:55 AM

plowpoint, you are slaughtering suffolk lambs at 250-350 lbs? what is the age of these lambs and your feed program? Selling lambs over 160lbs generally results in a big dock in my area. Sometimes the cut off weight is less is packers have an abundance of large carcasses,

gabbyraja · #18 07/06/12, 04:13 PM

The difference in katadhin and other heritage breeds is that they finish on grass. You can feed them pasture and nothing else and they finish at their best weight. THAT is why you want a heritage breed. Talk about low overhead!

Check Craigslist, hoobly, and best farm buys.
ann arbor all for sale / wanted classifieds "katahdin" - craigslist
You searched for "SHEEP IN MI"
Even petfinder can come up with stuff now and then
Pet Search Results: Adoptable sheep Barnyard Pets in Mendota, IL: Petfinder
Eat Wild is also a good resource. There's a farm in Williamston with them Eat Wild - Michigan

More katahdins seem to be north, around Mt Pleasant/Clare/Saginaw, etc. We got ours from a farm in Bath (outside lansing), but sold them to a farmer from up around Clare. When we were gathering goats we traveled up in the thumb, up to big rapids, straight over to the west side near midland, and then back down in one day. It was an 8 hour around the state drive, and we came back with 13 great goats. We nutri drenched them when we got back and didn't quarantine anybody (they'd made the drive together already, after all) and they all did great. They thrived, in fact, and were soon pregnant and full of...pep. I hate goats...

Maxpowers · #19 07/06/12, 04:38 PM

Thanks, I talked to my neighbors and even tried stopping in at a couple local farms. Still hadn't come up with any solid local contacts but I found someone in the Toledo craigslist with over 100 Katahdin lambs and ended up getting some from there.

It was about an hours drive from my house and I just transported them in my truck with a bed cap and a bunch of straw in the bank.

I'll probably start another post to have you guys help me figure out what I'm doing! In the meantime I've been doing a lot of reading and internet searching.

gabbyraja · #20 07/06/12, 05:10 PM

Congrats!

Even if you have your own ram, you might want to find someone local-ish to trade rams with next year. I forgot all about local harvest, too.

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