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  #1  
Old 07/09/06, 11:16 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sojourning below...in MO
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Swelling under chin?

Hi all,

I am posting for Canadian Mandy. We are on our new land and she finally reunited with her sheep Precious and her lil one. The lil ewe is about 14 weeks old, but we noticed her face looks oddly shaped. Under her chin it feels swollen, like as though there is fluid under it? She lets us touch it..there is nothing hard, we felt inside her mouth and under her tongue and discovered she has sharp teeth and doesn't much like fingers in her mouth! Like cheeks get swollen with mumps..under her chin is swollen. Mandy asked me to come post here as she doesn't have a connection yet. Special hugs from Mandy to EieioMom (sp?)

Thanks for any advice you might have.

Tam

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  #2  
Old 07/10/06, 02:03 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Washington State
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Bottle jaw. DD's lamb died last year the day we found the swelling. Could be parasites, but our vet also said it could be caused from poisoning.

Most often, however, liverflukes. Here's the link with suggestions made here: http://homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=93502

Keep us posted.

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  #3  
Old 07/10/06, 07:10 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Wisconsin
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HI Tam and Mandy !

Bottle Jaw or fluid accumulated under the jaw, is most likely caused by anemia(deficiency in red blood cells), probably due to worms. Have they been dewormed ? The lamb needs to be dewormed right away !
We use Ivomec (Ivermectin), or Tramisol (Levamisole), there are other good dewormers if there are problems with Liver Flukes or Tapeworms.
I would also give the lamb an injection of vitamin B right away.
It would also be a good idea to deworm Precious too.
If you can pen them off of the pasture a few days after you deworm them then you won't contaminate the new pasture.
Hopefully, you guys will have better luck finding a vet near your new place to help when you need one

Hope this helps and I will email Mandy soon,

Deb

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  #4  
Old 07/10/06, 09:04 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sojourning below...in MO
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Hi Kesoaps and eieiomom,

Thanks for your replies! I phoned Mandy at the land she says the swelling seems to have dropped some, and that the "lump" is more on her throat then under her chin now. I am heading to pic up the dewormer and vitamin. I called the folks who had her they say both Precious and her baby were wormed two weeks ago? I asked what they use, and they said "we send a variety of meds up there, not sure what they got" So ...."if" she did get this (the baby) will being wormed again with this liver fluke/tapeworm meds hurt her???


I need to take down my computer for the last trip to complete our move to the land..if you don't hear from us, we are waiting to have our internet reconnected.

Thanks and blessings to all,
Tamar

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  #5  
Old 07/10/06, 09:44 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sojourning below...in MO
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Hi again...

I forgot to mention...the folks who had precious said that the lamb would have runny stool if she had worms??

Mandy checked and the baby is a white barbados/katadin (sp)

Precious gums are black and pink the baby's are white. Yesterday we were blessed with a free babados male he is 1/1/2. I didn't ask the man when he was wormed, I'll phone him today. He is almost all white, with two small brown spots, his gums are white too. Do some sheep just have white gums? or does he have worms too??? Sorry for a the questions..this is new for us and we want to do it right. Mandy was giving the sheep these pellets from the feed lot and wants to know that is okay to do. They are a mix of grain/corn and other things...no copper in them at all. The feed lot said they were good for all animals. Thats my questions for now..hoping someone answers before I pack the computer this hour.

Blessings,
Tamar

PS Mandy said most the swelling is gone now..that there is still a lil softness over her jaw bone, but that the bulk of swelling is gone. Could she have got bit by something? Oy what a way to start being a shepherdess!

B

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Last edited by Tamar; 07/10/06 at 09:46 AM. Reason: one more thing
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  #6  
Old 07/10/06, 10:47 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 139

does sound like worms
the swelling occurs in the jaw/head usually when they are grazing and keep their heads down, and will reduce if they have just been laying around or sleeping

white gums usually do mean worms/low red cell count
as do white ears, or white around the eyes

we use ivermectin drench
we also will give some sweet grain or mollasses with minerals to help raise their blood sugar and give them more energy and extra help generating more red blood cells

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  #7  
Old 07/10/06, 12:11 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Wisconsin
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Ditto on post by Vere My Sone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamar
I forgot to mention...the folks who had precious said that the lamb would have runny stool if she had worms??)



Not necessarily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamar
Mandy was giving the sheep these pellets from the feed lot and wants to know that is okay to do. They are a mix of grain/corn and other things}


I would wonder about the "other things if it is good for ALL animals, I would not take the chance on added copper !



[/QUOTE)
PS Mandy said most the swelling is gone now..that there is still a lil softness over her jaw bone, but that the bulk of swelling is gone. Could she have got bit by something?
B

I would still deworm all three sheep and keep them off the pasture a couple days.
You can be additionally safe and weigh the baby (even hold on a bathroom scale so you don't over dose her).

I am not familiar with possible bites, sure sounds like it could be possible, but based on the past experience with Precious and their flock, it would not hurt to deworm them and know it was done properly...

Sounds like the culprit may be stomach worms, which is covered with Ivomec.
I don't think Ivomec controls Liver Flukes or Tapes. You would a different type of dewormer for that.
Oy what a way to start being a shepherdess!)

We all have to start somewhere

Best,

Deb
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  #8  
Old 07/14/06, 01:17 PM
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Location: Merced, CA
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You may want to use Safeguard or Valbazen wormer drench. I was told by our vets that some worms are getting resistant to Ivomec.

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  #9  
Old 07/14/06, 04:48 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Wisconsin
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If Safeguard works well, that would be great too and more cost effective when you have just a few sheep.

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  #10  
Old 07/14/06, 05:40 PM
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Ivomec Plus is for liver flukes... But, the valbazen will get the tapes.
My first choice for what sounds like Bottle Jaw, would be Ivomec Plus.
The swelling only gets less noticable when they have not had there heads down eating...head down brings the fluids up...it won't go away or lesson on its own. Check to see how pale the eyelids are, F.A.M.A.C.H.A method.

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  #11  
Old 07/16/06, 12:34 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sojourning below...in MO
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Hi all,

Okay, Harmony has had a shot from the vet of Valbazen..and the vet also gave her a shot of antibiotics.

How long before this swelling leaves and how long for her to pass worms??

Do I get the other wormer as well and do the other two sheep now?

Thanks for the help thus far, much appreciated. We just got our internet back and are thankful to read your posts.

Blessings,
Tamar

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  #12  
Old 07/16/06, 01:55 PM
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Location: Missouri Ozarks
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Also be sure to address the anemia issue with fortified B complex injections twice daily. Parasites cause a thiamine deficiancy so be sure to get the B complex with the 100 mg of thiamine per ml versus the 12.5 mg in the regular B complex. Give 10ccs twice daily subq. for an adult. A concentrated oral electrolyte is also good as it has proteins and the vitamins. Give 120 ccs at least twice daily ~ orally.

Worms should pass within 72 hours if the wormer was effective. Take a fresh feces sample in to be checked in 5 days. Bottle jaw can resolve overnight but it can also linger for a week or more. Giving the supplements and making sure she is eating well will help turn her around.

I would check eye color on the other two and worm if needed or just be safe ~ worm them anyway. You might need to worm again in 18 days to break the cycle.

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  #13  
Old 07/16/06, 11:56 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Wisconsin
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Tamar,

I would definitely include the vitamin B.
The label dosage on our vitamin B-complex says 5ml/100 pounds.
If you are working with a vet, you could ask them how much based on the weight of Harmony.
We had one bad case of bottle jaw in a lamb a few years ago.
Our vet had us give Ivomec and a few days later, Tramisol.
We used vitamin B injections 2x/day the first couple days and then a couple more days 1x/day. We also gave him a shot of Procaine Pennicillin.

Hope she is doing better

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  #14  
Old 07/17/06, 09:20 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sojourning below...in MO
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Hi all

Praise report...Harmony is doing wonderful! Yesterday under watchful eye away from her Mommy she rid her body of worms. The swelling is totally gone! She has bounce and friskiness that she never had since we got her here. The vet had given a shot of antibiotics with vitamin B and that verbazen (sp). I just read this we were down again for a couple days..but back online again now, so tomorrow I will see about getting more vitamin B for her. Just a couple days worth? I think we have some left over from that little lamb that Mandy was trying to help that had that white muscle disease.
Thank you all for your help! Sure glad we listened to you and followed through with the meds..and that we didn't let it go as a "bite"!

Blessings to all,
Tamar and Mandy

EieioMom, Mandy will soon have her computer linked into the network and she looks forward to talking to you again, thanks for that beautiful friendship

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  #15  
Old 07/17/06, 10:09 PM
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 252

So HAPPY to hear the good news~ great job!

I would follow everything Sue said, and also worm again in 18-20 days or the sub adults ( harder to kill ) will then be adults and you can be right back with a heavy worm load in no time...following up with another dose gives you a nice fresh start for your happy lamb...
The Thiamin will make her feel better too!

Yiiipeee for Harmony!

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