Neutering bucks for pelt/meat use?

[LoneStrChic23]

To start this post off I have a question 1st.

I am raising standard rex's for fur and meat. Prime pelts that are actually useable are from rabbits 8+ months old. I have heard brief mentioning that pelts from bucks aren't useable. Why is that?? Surely people in the fur trade don't just use prime pelts from does only?? What's the difference between a mature doe and a mature buck pelt?

Now, onto the title of my post. I had read about this on another group, though it wasn't discussed in much detail and I was hoping to get some insights/opinions from the folks here.

The topic was on neutering rabbits. The breeder had fur & fiber rabbits. She was neutering the bucks she planned on using the pelts from, or in the case of her angoras, she was neutering them and using them for the wool (left alive, not processed like the pelt rabbits)

This poster noted she had better feed conversion on her neutered bucks as well and also had the benefit of being able to have them share cages with other rabbits (say some Jr. does or other young bucks that had also been altered) thus saving on that precious cage space as well.

Her method, from what I gathered was to band them as soon as the testicles came fully down. Sort of like the way you band goats. She bought the variety pack of small rubber bands from the dollar store used the one that was about 7/8 of an inch (if I remember correctly) and wrapped the testicles about 3 times. She said that none of the bucks seemed bothered or distressed when the bands were put on properly and with in a few days the testicles shriveled, turned black and fell off. She added up her cost and by doing it herself she estimated the cost to neuter was about $0.02 per buck. Not to bad I thought.

Anywho, I thought it was an interesting idea and would be worth while if it did indeed increase food conversion, enabled altered bucks to share cages and made the mature pelts just as useable as a doe's.

Anyone have any opinions, thoughts on this?? Has anyone here ever tried it? If so, how'd it go?

I plan to grow out a few rabbits from each rex litter to prime pelt age, so I thought this idea was one that may be especially useful for me.

All thoughts, suggestions and input on this is welcomed and much appreciated.

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

[Epic]

I would try it, I might even do it in the future, it doesn't sound like a bad idea.

[LoneStrChic23]

Originally Posted by Epic

I would try it, I might even do it in the future, it doesn't sound like a bad idea.

The process didn't sound too difficult. I think it would be easier if you had a helper, but the breeder who posted about it was able to do it on her own as her rabbits were handled often. She turned them on their backs, on a pillow in her lap (head by her knees) and wrapped the small rubber band snugly about 3-4 times on each testicle. She warned to be careful and make sure you put the band in the right spot (as you would on a goat) and to be very sure you didn't get the band on the penis. On average she said it took about 3 days and once the striveled testicles fell off the rabbits were really good about cleaning up the area on their own.

I thought the whole thing was very interesting.

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

[Epic]

Thanks Crystal, would it be placed farther up on the rabbits "bits" ?
I'm not familiar with the whole goat process :P

[KSALguy]

the only reason to neuter a buck is to keep it for a pet like in the case of angoras where you want to keep calm animals that dont spray and harvest the wool, as to pelts it doesnt matter, older animals have tougher pelts i would guess but genders dont really matter, altering rabbits is more of a PETA, TREEHUGGER, idea, not really a common practice for farm people unless like i said they have angora to keep around for wool

[a7736100]

Would it be possible to get pictures or videos from her?

If I were to try it I would have to practice on a dead buck first.

Originally Posted by LoneStrChic23

To start this post off I have a question 1st.


Her method, from what I gathered was to band them as soon as the testicles came fully down. Sort of like the way you band goats. She bought the variety pack of small rubber bands from the dollar store used the one that was about 7/8 of an inch (if I remember correctly) and wrapped the testicles about 3 times. She said that none of the bucks seemed bothered or distressed when the bands were put on properly and with in a few days the testicles shriveled, turned black and fell off. She added up her cost and by doing it herself she estimated the cost to neuter was about $0.02 per buck. Not to bad I thought.

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

[MaggieJ]

I don't think neutering rabbits is as easy as that. I forget the details of their anatomy, but it's not like neutering other farm animals. I've always heard that it can be risky and is a job for the vet, which makes it pretty expensive. Please, for the sake of the rabbits, learn more about this before attempting a DIY job.

[Pony]

I agree with Maggie. I've handled and butchered a lot of bucks, and the way they're set up is quite a bit different from animals that are routinely banded/castrated.

Practicing on dead rabbits is a good idea, but I think I'd get much more detailed information and instruction before I attempted this on a live buck.

[LoneStrChic23]

Originally Posted by KSALguy

the only reason to neuter a buck is to keep it for a pet like in the case of angoras where you want to keep calm animals that dont spray and harvest the wool, as to pelts it doesnt matter, older animals have tougher pelts i would guess but genders dont really matter, altering rabbits is more of a PETA, TREEHUGGER, idea, not really a common practice for farm people unless like i said they have angora to keep around for wool

I'm having a very hard time understanding how the altering of bucks would be a "TREE HUGGER" or "PETA" thing. Yes, I understand that PETA likes to pretend to be an animal welfare group that advocates no breeding and total "animal liberation" (which means no raising animals for food, fur, farm and even as pets, all the while their own "animal shelters" euthanize more animals than that of most shelters...such hypocrites)

BUT as you could tell from my postings I'm obviously not a believer in those preachings as I am raising animals for food and hopefully fur use. I also made no mention of wanting to keep a bunch of neutered bucks as pets so I'm having a hard time figuring out how some of your comments fit into my original post topic. Not to mention, the altering of meat animals is a very common FARM practice, used by FARM people. We've altered goats, pigs and cattle for use as meat and know MANY, MANY people who follow the same practice.

Anywho.....

I am asking about this because from what I gathered from someone who does this, it makes raising/housing rabbits to an older age much easier and more efficient. Not sure if the food conversion and better growth rate is accurate, but in the opinion of someone who practices keeping older bucks for fur and fiber use, it is.

As for the gender/age/pelt thing..I have seen & heard mentioned from several people that they prefer to use does for prime pelts vs. bucks, which is why I asked if there was any legitimate reason backing this up, or if it was a personal preferance.

To a7736100:
The idea of trying it on a dead buck is a sound on IMO. I'd hate to have a botched job done on a live buck! At least then you could practice a bit with making sure your getting the bands in the right place. You obviously wouldn't be able to see the end results (least I wouldn't keep a dead rabbit lying around) but it would give you a non-squirming, non-feeling "test dummy"

To Epic:
I am going to dig around on my computer and see if I can find contact information for the woman who made that post about neutering on another board. Perhaps if I can get in touch with her she can fill in some of the blanks that were missing from the thread I read. For some reason I was the only clueless reader of the thread because everyone else involved seemed to understand all the ins and outs perfectly

MaggieJ:
I understand your caution, but I honestly don't think it's all too complicated.Complicated to an extent yyes, but not on an unreasonable level.. This is not the first time I've heard of people doing this at home on rabbits that are livestock, in a very similar manner as you would young goats. I volunteer for a local rescue group and the vet we use up there neuters rabbits for about $18 a pop and will spay does (much more complicated) for about $45. Any rabbits I've seen fresh out of neuter are fine as a fiddle and up and going like normal within hours. Of course, it's not economical to pay to have all my bucks I want to keep for pelts neutered, and I doubt the rescue group would look fondly on my raising rabbits (and wanting some of them neutered at a cheaper price than most vets) for meat and fur use..In fact I think if some of them knew I was raising rabbits for meat they'd have a heart attack. People don't seem to object to raising chickens and such for meat, but just mention even eating rabbit seems to cause many distress....Then again these are usually people who only eat meat and food that's pre-packaged from your local grocer....

Obviously I don't know enough about this to actually try it (plus I don't have any young bucks that I don't plan on using for breeding) which is why I posted here to get some insight and opinions. It might end up being something I can't do myself while ensuring I'm not causing suffering or screwing up something. But I thought it was at least worth asking about.

I think *if* it could be done safely, it would be very beneficial just by allowing a few growers to house together, save space and *hopefully* prevent them from spraying each other.

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

[KSALguy]

by neutering all animals that we keep as pets there is no way for them to reproduce, they have even gone so far as to spay female rabbits, female rabbits dont even have an active heat cycle that would be detectable to anyone other than a buck rabbit,

after haveing worked in PetSmart for over a year i saw the pet industry from a compleatly differint point of view, PETA was up our back side about just about everything,

other than that topic which i am sorry for haveing brought up, the neutering of a rabbit is not the same as neutering Cattle or goats or what ever, buck rabbits taste just the same, an old buck will possibly have tougher bits thru the shoulder region but an OLD buck is past the prime pelt stage anyway,
i just dont see a point in going thru the truble with a scalple to try and castrate them, but thats just MHO,

[Devoville]

I think the process of banding to castrate is horrible. Its a very old way to do it and I think it is considered animal abuse nowadays..in fact I think it is illegal in Canada. Don't know why the feed rate would change, maybe it does but there are way more humane ways to neuter. As an animal gets older it gets less active but that could be true for unaltered animals too.

[Jackie]

Originally Posted by Devoville

I think the process of banding to castrate is horrible. Its a very old way to do it and I think it is considered animal abuse nowadays..in fact I think it is illegal in Canada. Don't know why the feed rate would change, maybe it does but there are way more humane ways to neuter. As an animal gets older it gets less active but that could be true for unaltered animals too.

Its not illegal to band sheep or cattle here. And I would MUCH prefer to band calves rather than to just cut them out without anesthetic like the alternative.

Although I would NOT try banding cats, dogs or rabbits.

[PulpFaction]

Originally Posted by KSALguy

the only reason to neuter a buck is to keep it for a pet like in the case of angoras where you want to keep calm animals that dont spray and harvest the wool, as to pelts it doesnt matter, older animals have tougher pelts i would guess but genders dont really matter, altering rabbits is more of a PETA, TREEHUGGER, idea, not really a common practice for farm people unless like i said they have angora to keep around for wool

Lots of species of meat animals are "tastier" if they are neutered. Cows, chickens, pigs, sheep, goats, etc. Any meat animal that is wanted for meat but, for whatever reason, will be kept after they become sexually mature, are commonly altered.

Crystal, I recall that conversation. I asked about keeping Rex in colonies for grow out and that was a suggestion I got. I do intend to give it a shot, but I'm probably still a few months off from even having my first Rex litter on the ground!

[PulpFaction]

Devoville, banding is a VERY humane way to castrate. The alternative would be going under a scalpel, putting the animal through all the stress of a car trip and a vet stay, anesthetics, scalpels....how is that more humane? With banding of other animals I've had, it's a very quick process, the animal shows no discomfort directly associated with the banding, mostly just fussing over being handled. I've never seen an infection develop. I've never seen them act is if there was anything different at all after the deed was done.

[LoneStrChic23]

Originally Posted by PulpFaction

Lots of species of meat animals are "tastier" if they are neutered. Cows, chickens, pigs, sheep, goats, etc. Any meat animal that is wanted for meat but, for whatever reason, will be kept after they become sexually mature, are commonly altered.

Crystal, I recall that conversation. I asked about keeping Rex in colonies for grow out and that was a suggestion I got. I do intend to give it a shot, but I'm probably still a few months off from even having my first Rex litter on the ground!

Are you on the Rex yahoo groups?? I am on several, and I read about this banding of bucks on one of them, I just can't remember WHICH rex group, and the yahoo groups are not near as easy to navigate as discussion boards like this one, so I'm having a hard time finding that particular thread...if I remember correctly, the thread topic wasn't even about banding/neutering, it just got side tracked and turned into a discussion about it.

It sounds interesting and I know the original poster had great sucess with it, which is why I was looking for more thoughts and opinions on it.

I'm still a few months off on having Rex litters myself as my does won't be ready to breed until October/November Can't wait to have nest boxes full of velvety lil' bunnies

Best Wishes,
Crystal
http://noodlevilleadventures.blogspot.com

[mygoat]

My goats tend to act uncomfortable after banding. Heck, this year I had one buckling act like he was DYING and wouldn't eat well for two days. After that he was fine. Most babies simply act as though nothing has happened, some do act a little uncomfortable.

The blade method of castration is also fairly humane. Most of the time it is done at home by the farmer. It's quick, relatively painless, and often doesn't have any problems. I don't prefer it, though...

I would never ever ever band a dog or a cat. If someone else tried rabbits I MIGHT try it... though I don't think it's a good idea to band any animal that can reach their testicles.

[Devoville]

I am talking from an agricultural view... most vets visit the farm to castrate lambs etc. Most farmers also do it themselves, however even just a topical anesthetic or a local should be used. Banding CUTS OFF CIRCULATION. We all know what that feels like after only a few minutes, now try to imagine the banded area actually dying and atrophying over the course of many days. No I disagree that surgical is more stressful; it is over and done with in a couple minutes with very little pain. The animal also can go on to recover much faster. Banding is an ongoing process thats lasts several days and if your rabbit goes off its food because of severe pain then you are going to get into gi stasis and all sorts of things like that.Our farm vet 30 years ago was very opposed to that and we had no problem with docking tails and neutering and extra stress via a local and surgically doing the procedure.

[RiverPines]

Law here. Rabbits are not legally considered livestock. Here we have the premise program for all livestock and rabbits can not be recorded because they are considered pets. As such pets can only be neutered by a vet.
So here its illegal to neuter a bun yourself.

Now my opinion!
I raise angoras and I have no prob harvesting the wool from my mature bucks. They don't spray themselves!!! Their wool is exactly the same as the does.
Its clean, soft and has no odor. I see no reason to cause undo pain when their is no reason.

Also we have French angoras, dual purpose. The meat from a muture buck is no different than a doe. Again no reason for neutering!

The only way I could justify neutering is a house kept male that may get urine on the walls outside its cage. Then, here, legally you would have to pay for a vet.

IMO comparing a goat to a bun is oranges to apples too.
2 totally different species and totally different behaviors.
Heck buck goats even pee on their own faces! Buns do not.

[Shrarvrs88]

a thought on bucks peeing on walls: up until last week (or the one before?) I kep all fifteen of my rabbits inside. they ALL peed on the walls, except the new baby kits. Even the eight weeks old does did. My mama rabbit did, but I always thought she was trying to keep her cage cleaner, since she is an abnormally clean rabbit (as opposed to my others). But they all peed out of the cage. Doodle, the buck, did smell a BIT worse, when he was going through puberty, and my new buck, Maverick, smells a bit worse than the girls. But not crazy bad. (but then, I am a crazy bunny person and kinda like the smell of rabbits in general. I only am opposed to my carpets being drenched by pee, which tends to be a revolting smell no matter what species does it)

[Narshalla]

Anatomically, I cannot see how one could band a rabbit, or a cat or pig, though just about everything else mentioned can be, that I know of.

I would like to see pictures of a video of this, if possible. I only have pet rabbits, so naturally they are all fixed, but if there is a very cheap, easy method, the rescue I volunteer at might be interested in using this method for bucks instead of the (relatively) expensive vet.