Oh NO! How do I convince Mama not to

[BlsdMama]

kill the whole litter? I went in there today (we have an open pen / colony type setting with nest boxes and "teepees" scattered about inside of a barn with cement flooring) and found Mama rabbit piling the sawdust, straw, alfalfa, etc. all around her nesting box. And I thought, "Awww! What a good Mama. She's making a burrow around her nesting box." Boy was I wrong! I went in there later and she had totally filled IN the nesting box, burying every one of the popples. So, I dug them out and WOW boy, she packed it in there tight. Got to the bottom of the popple pile and figured out why - there was a gooey, stinky baby bunny at the bottom. I dug him out and one that had been killed by being packed in so tight, and emptied the nest box. I refilled it with material and some of the clean fur. I borrowed fur from another mama's nest and put in the little buns. They were crying and searching for food.

Now what? The stink from the dead one was awful. Will she take back the litter? Is there anything I should have done or could have done differently? This is the mama I was so excited about because she had killed her entire first litter (a whole three) and she was taking such good care of these nine (now seven)... Looks like I was happy too soon.

Thanks for any help.

[gfam]

Oh no Kelly. I'm sorry. I hope you get some solutions soon. iccckk.

[KSALguy]

rabbits kept in a colony and allowed to dig SOMETHING will pack the "burrow" entrance to keep the kits safe this is NORMAL< the dead kit has little to nothing to do with what the mother did, all of my does burry their nesting chamber tight only opening it once or twice a day to feed them then closeing it back up again, this is NORMAL and will happen untill the kits are a few weeks old and start comming out of the nest chamber,

the problem is your doe does not have a "Tunnel" and only has a nest box that she is TRYING to fix up like she would if she had dug the burrow her self, so it looks a hot mess and yes it probably is not as good as if she had a real burrow,

if your going to keep them in a non digging enclosure, build them nest boxes that replicate a tunnel, long wooden squair boxs like the ones another poster on here has for her colony, the doe can make her nest at one end and then pack the tunnel with straw and you have a nice secure bunny burrow,

[BlsdMama]

I'll post pictures this afternoon.
You know, that's completely what we thought at first. We have another mama that did EXACTLY what you're talking about. But in this case, she was either overzealous or trying to bury them as I literally had to use one finger to unpack the babies. It was just absolutely PACKED in there so tight none could more. And the stench from the dead one was overwhelming.

Would a mama bury her nest if a couple died to cover up the smell from predators?

We had a second doe deliver this AM and she delivered in the "teepee" enclosures my DH made. She has a beautiful "burrow" in the entrance and then the babes are in an open area in the back in a really nice nest. And she's being a great mom with seven new little ones.

I'll have to get out there and get some pictures taken. We have a young doe making a nest in the middle of the colony and I'm hoping she'll change her mind.

Final question, how will I tell if Mama is taking care of the other seven now? They seem to be content this morning, warm and piled up, and all under a thin layer of hair and I think she pulled more.

Okay, I lied, one more question, should I move them from the nest box (the only nest box) to one of the long open back teepees. Think of two rectangle pieces of wood in an A shape and then covering covering half of the front of the teepee so Mama crouches low to get in, the back is open, but butted up against the wall. Or should I just leave them where they're at and watch for overzealous "packing"?

[MaggieJ]

Did you look at their bellies to see if they are being fed? Normally, a well-fed kit looks as though it had swallowed a grape... the belly is quite rounded. If they are being fed, I'd be tempted to leave them where they are... any more changes may upset the doe. But then, I have not bred rabbits in a colony setting, so that is just my inclination.

[Macybaby]

My does have a modifed "tunnel" and while they pack about 2' tight, the actual area where the nest is is not packed up.

I've read that it is normal for them to try to section off a dead one from the rest. With the last litter, I could smell something so I cleaned it out and did find an "icky" in the back of the area with straw between it and the live kits.

Here is the open end, you can see how one tunnel is plugged up tight.


But the babies are in a nice nest at the end, and yes, there are babies under that fur.


Cathy

[BlsdMama]

I took a peek at the litter and they are most definitely being fed. Thank goodness. I'll take pictures this afternoon of the "good" doe and her tunnel. We just had to unpack the nesting box. After seeing your set-up my dh's ideas definitely work much better than a traditional nesting box in our set-up. I won't move the litter, but I don't think we'll use the traditional nesting box again.

On a good note, when I went out there we have yet ANOTHER doe making a new nest. She's an opal colored doe and I can't wait to see this litter. This is so incredibly exciting, especially with 14 babies still being alive so far. I can definitely see the benefit of having several does deliver at once, although the other 2 had fairly big litters, being able to transfer them if necessary would be a good thing.

[Dian]

Just guessing, but I think she may have been trying to cover up the dead one. If there is a dead baby in the box and it is not removed or seperated from the others it will make the others die. I wouldn't move the babies if everything looks ok now. She will probably do fine now that you cleaned up the nest.
Dian

[kareninaustria]

I agree with Dian's guess. I had a doe do EXACTLY the same thing a few months back. An experienced, good mother. Day 1, 10 healthy babies, day 2, her nest box PACKED with straw, so much it was under a lot of pressure. A slimy, disgusting mess at the bottom, only 4 babies surviving at the time. I think decomposition was accelerated by high outside temperatures combined with the overstuffed nest. I cleaned up the mess, and she did care for the remaining 4, but they had been too badly stressed and died one by one over the next few days. I rebred her immediately, and she did perfectly fine with her next litter. I did take the top off the nest box so she couldn't pack it full again, but I don't think she would have this time. I think one dead baby triggered the burying behavior last time. I'll know to watch for it in the future.

[MaggieJ]

This is exactly why many people suggest checking the nest daily to make sure there are no dead kits. Knowing how many should be there helps, which is why most people do an initial head count. Once decomposition starts, it progresses quickly. The reaction of the mother rabbit may vary... here she has tried to bury it. I had a doe who simply moved her live kits to the front of the box. At first glance I wondered why... then my nose told me.