selling/buying trios

SquashNut · #1 02/27/08, 01:26 PM

the line breeding thread got me thinking.
When you buy a trio do you buy related rabbits or is it Ok to buy non related ones?
For those of you who sell breeding stock do you try to keep some rabbits that are not very closely related or not related at all for those sales.
Or do you recomend to your customers that they buy part of their trio from you and part from an other breeder.

Beaniemom · #2 02/27/08, 02:08 PM

If I am starting out in a breed, I prefer to buy unrelated does/bucks. I did have at the last show someone buy a doe from me, but had him buy a buck from someone else, since it would have been a close line breed with the buck I had. (Which may have been fine, of course!)

jil101ca · #3 02/27/08, 03:01 PM

When I buy new stock I want them not related. That's why I buy new rabbits, to add new blood to my lines.

turtlehead · #4 02/28/08, 09:14 AM

The only time I've purchased rabbits, I got three does from one breeder; two were siblings and the other was not but I don't know how closely related she was to the sisters.

I got my buck from a separate breeder.

But that's because I wanted NZW does and a Cal buck.

When I switch to AmChins (eventually), I'll just take what TerryW suggests. I trust her judgment of the breed and I think decent meat stock is more important than whether or not they're related.

I mean, I'm planning on culling most of them anyway, so a little inbreeding isn't as big a deal as it would be if I were raising pets. Culling "pets" due to bad traits resulting from inbreeding would be heart breaking. With meat rabbits it's just putting dinner on the table while keeping the occasional most perfect one to continue your herd.

AprilW · #5 02/28/08, 09:33 AM

When I started raising show rabbits, I was always told to get related stock. Not necessarily brother & sister, but fairly closely related. This was to essentially "lock in" good traits. You could always bring in another rabbit to improve where you lack. I was told that if you breed rabbits from various pedigrees you could get unwanted traits.

Of course with inbreeding or linebreeding, you can also be stuck with poor traits. But you start with the best quality stock you possibly can. I've heard arguments both ways. Personally, I liked the results of breeding rabbits from the same lines, but I also had success crossing the lines of two different breeders.

Terry W · #6 02/28/08, 09:43 AM

The herd of Amchins I bought out, though the adults originated from 3 different breeders, with 3 litters produced by the seller, are related- two original breeders are now 'out' of rabbits, one due to age, one due to school-- those rabbits are related most closely-- both breeders from the same state. the third 'line' is from another state. i have not found any relationships in the pedigrees.
Now, even among the 'related' rabbits there are some major differences in structure. There is an issue with salt uptake--seems I need to provide extra copper for one bloodline( the heat tolerant line, no less!!! Murphy's Laws strike again)- now the related bloodline from the second breeder-- no copper uptake issue--

The third bloodline has provided the 'Wild Child'- she has proven most savvy when it comes to surviving out of her cage.

So-- for me-- For selling trios to Turtlehead and KittyKity-- they will be getting, hopefully, a buck with no copper uptake issues, then two does that reflect heat tolerance and milk production. I will be looking at the shoulders, and overall structures, to see what is carrying the best meat load first, then go from there. If I find a pairing that produces a lot of potential 'keepers' then that breeding will be repeated. I have no problem with the girls being half-sibs to the buck-- or to each other. The ALBC publishes a wonderful book on breeding to preserve genetic diversity when satrting out with a very limited gene pool-- as a memeber of the Barbados Blackbelly Consortium, that is actually the 'program' we are supposed to follow!!! By following that program, we can 'close' our herds, or even swap males, to really increase diversity.

Note to all-- the doe that has a 'salt uptake' issue-- really went to town on chewing wood---she literally ate her nestbox!!!
Wire licking is a good indicator that yopur rabbits need salt/minerals-- after putting a cattle type salt block in the pen of young ladies-- all wire licking stopped--- the blocks with fewer minerals in them did not stop the licking- the one doe has done a number on her salt/mineral block-- and is now growing back an excellent coat- I am getting some special ordered loose minerals for the herd this week-- and will be measuring out rations to see exactly how much each individual rabbit is consuming-- that's the only way I feel I can find the potential issues that I want to watch out for--

Kittikity · #7 02/28/08, 12:29 PM

I would, of course, line breed.. If I brought in a rabbit from another line it would have to be really nice quality to take the risk of bringing in bad traits.. Wouldn't want to mess up Terry's work.. But that's just me.. At least I'll know better the genetics I'm working with..

If you really want to go with different lines, I'd say get rabbits that show really good quality and go from there.. Like Turtlehead said, you're going to cull out the bad ones anyway..

Terry W · #8 02/28/08, 04:23 PM

hmm, remember cooking class-- where 'hopefully' one could eat their mistakes?

rabbit raising-- EAT YOUR MISTAKES!!!

Kittikity · #9 02/28/08, 04:33 PM

LOL

That's it.. I'm getting a shirt with a rabbit silhouette on it and it's gonna say "Eat Your Mistakes!"

rhainyne · #10 02/29/08, 08:36 AM

After reading through alllll of that input, I figured I'd ask for ya'lls input on the stock I'm looking to get!

This is the doe - from Beaniemom, and I believe we'll be getting one of her doelings. She's also going to breed the doe for me before we pick her up...what a gal!

I ran across these two bucks(11 weeks old atm, not too far away, pedigreed) and am thinking about getting one of them. We're aiming to breed for meat and pelts for personal consumption/use.

selling/buying trios - Rabbits

Being new to rabbits...are there any questions I should ask? Would I be better off getting a buck from Beaniemom's stock as opposed to outside stock?

kinda unsure, right now, but I know I'll need to let the lady with the bucks know if I'm interested...

Terry W · #11 02/29/08, 08:40 AM

I am wondering why the rear ends on those young bucks look so fatty---It would be my prefernce, in any younger animal like that, to see LEAN- not any signs of being overweight-- That is my opinion-- I don't like overweight animals-- especially if they have work to do....

rhainyne · #12 02/29/08, 08:45 AM

Should I ask how much they weigh? They're about an hour and a half away from me, so I want to ask as much as I can before I go, not that I'm terribly confident in my own ability to judge a rabbit, to be honest.

If they are a little overweight, can I lean them up over the next couple of months to get them ready for breeding?

MaggieJ · #13 02/29/08, 09:00 AM

I think it is quite possible to rid them of excess body fat by changing the emphasis of their diet. If the pellets and/or grains are slowly reduced and they are given gradually increasing amounts of hay, safe twigs and branches (apple, pear or willow) and fresh green plants as they become available in the spring, by the time these fellows get to breeding age they should be much trimmer. Extra exercise will also help... nothing like binkies to trim a rabbit down!

rhainyne · #14 02/29/08, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieJ

I think it is quite possible to rid them of excess body fat by changing the emphasis of their diet. If the pellets and/or grains are slowly reduced and they are given gradually increasing amounts of hay, safe twigs and branches (apple, pear or willow) and fresh green plants as they become available in the spring, by the time these fellows get to breeding age they should be much trimmer. Extra exercise will also help... nothing like binkies to trim a rabbit down!

Thanks Maggie

I fully plan to transition all our starter stock off pellets once we're green here!

Just wanted to get everyone's opinions on the stock and such too

MaggieJ · #15 02/29/08, 09:16 AM

Apart from looking a bit pudgy (and rex rabbits always look that way to my unaccustomed eye because of the short dense fur) I thought they look pretty good. Nice alert eyes and ears, good meaty shape, nice fur. Don't forget to check their teeth and hocks!

Beaniemom · #16 02/29/08, 09:42 AM

They look nice from what I can see (Castor?) Yeah, I'd ask how much they weigh now, you don't want a 15 pound buck! :P Ask how much the dam and sire weigh too.

Any buck from here wouldn't be related to the doe, so it probably doesn't matter, especially since I don't have a buck to give you yet! :P

Email me the name of the breeder so I can see if I know them!

rhainyne · #17 03/01/08, 07:41 PM

Well, got some more information from the breeder about the castors...

Quote:

The sire is a;most 9lbs and the dam is 8lbs. The weight on the babies are caster buck 1 is 2 3/4lbs,caster buck 2 is 3 3/4 lbs, caster doe 3 1/2 lbs,chin doe 1 is 2 3/4 lbs, chin doe 2 is 3 lbs. The dam had 8 in the litter and I lost 1. It suprised me actually she usually has 4 in her litter and all the babies make weight as seniors. The Buck is a Chinchilla and the Dam is a Black. Both are full pedagree.
I wish they would make rex a 6 class breed for showing, I find that sometimes it takes till they are 8 months to reach senior weight.
That is why i'm only asking $25 with pedagree because they aren't proven yet.