Learning All We Can

[dndweeks]

My husband and I plan to build a homestead in the next couple of years (have to sell our house first) and on the top of our homestead list is chickens. We are trying to learn everything we can now to be as well prepared as possible.

We want to raise free range chickens and wondered what is the correct definition of free range chickens? Is there a certain amount of space required before a chicken can be considered free range? My plan was to let them out of the coop area to roam the property during the day putting them back into the coop in the evenings, but my husband questions if that is wise. How do you protect free range chickens from predators? Do you keep them cooped if you are off the homestead running errands? Do you allow them to roam garden areas or will they eat more than just the bugs in the garden?

Obviously we are beginners in all of this, but really want to learn all we can.

Thanks.

[Mulegirl]

Have you picked up a good chicken book yet? That's a great first step.

Regarding free range, as far as I know, most people define it as just that: chickens who are allowed to move freely about, at least during the day. You will be at risk from predators. How much at risk depends on how wary the chickens are and how many/what kinds of predators you have in your area. You may also have trouble finding their nests to collect eggs, as they don't always lay first thing in the morning, and loose hens will get it in their heads to lay in nice safe locations such as underneath the deck where you can't get to them at all. If you want them to get fresh green food and bugs all the time, a moveable fence (electronet or something) and a chicken tractor is a more secure idea. It's also much easier to define "pastured" than free range. And that is more likely to keep your garden safe--chickens will eat anything they can get in their beaks that doesn't bite them first (we regularly feed ours the mice that our cats catch and leave for us to step on).

As for flying, that really depends on breed and age, and on how interesting the other side of the fence looks. I have two Leghorns and an Ameracauna/Easter Egger who can easily get over the fence of their yard, but if we throw food scraps or scratch oats down before they get it in their heads to do so, they stay in rather than going exploring.

[Awnry Abe]

If you aren't selling your eggs with a label that says "free range", it really doesn't matter how you define it. I agree with yours.

I think you are smart to start with chickens. They are not difficult, thrive in spite of most beginner mistakes (we've made our share), and pay fast and frequent benefits.

I can't speak to the predator population that you are talking about, but if we left our chickens unlocked at night, they would be gone by the morning. Furthermore, keeping them in the coop at night seems to instill where "home" is for laying eggs. Nothing is more frustrating than thinking production has dropped off the shelf, only to find a mountain of eggs hiding in a nice cozy brush pile in the corner of the barnyard. If they didn't come home at night, those would be everywhere. Ours are free to run off to Mexico during the day if they want, but at night they willingly find a spot in the coop. I don't think I've seen them further than 50 yards from the coop on a prime day. In our current coop, we don't even have a fence. But I wish we did for times when we leave for the entire day. I am fairly certain we have lost a bird here and there on those days (and probably a few right from under our noses). We have a lot, and hatch a lot, so it is just part of the program for us.

I don't know what the chicken would choose, but if it were me I would opt for this arrangement over total confinement and safety.

[Dead Rabbit]

hang out at this forum. there are a number of folks here that have wisdom based on experience. most of the things you read in books or homestead type magazines are basic run of the mill stuff that alot of times in true life aint so.

just ask questions. and there is nothing wrong with thinking outside the box when it comes to fowl.

as for free ranging protection. the best thing ive ever done was get a great pyraneese dog that was born and raised with fowl. she keeps everything alive. keeps hawks at bay along with all the mammelian type predators. other than a dog, i wouldnt recommend anything else as 90% failsafe.

IMO free range is when fowl are free to move about. not stuck in small little pens but in areas big enough to have natural growing vegetation. even if these areas are fenced in.

[dkhern]

dont know about preditors in your area here about the only thing that would bother during daylight are hawks. coop at night. feed some chops at dusk and close up coop. have feed in coop and wait until later in morning to let out will incourge laying in nest. feeding at dusk will encourge return to coop instead of roosting in trees. cliping wing feathers of one wing will make it harder for them to fly out pf pen or to roost in trees

[jcatblum]

In the garden the chickens don't mess with my green beans or okra. Grasshoppers prefer the okra & gb so I want to fence a small flock in with items they have proven not to eat.
Chickens will devour tomatoes.
Mine free range everyday even if I am away. I do loose a few to hawks, but the dogs keep most other predators away.

[amylou62]

My girls don't get too far from the coop unless they are following me around. Sometimes we look like a parade when I'm out with the dogs.

[dndweeks]

The primary predators in our area would be coyote, fox, raccoon, skunk, and hawks.

Right now my husband is leaning toward a tractor coop to help provide a little more protection. Also, if the chickens tend to stay fairly close the coop, a tractor coop would allow us to move them to parts of the property they may not go themselves. However, I still want to just let them out of the coop onto the property so they can peck to their little heart's content. Could we do a combination of both?

We haven't purchased any books, but did subscribe to some magazines that have had some good articles about raising chickens. One magazine we recently received is all about raising chickens. We are trying to make our way thru all the articles.

This forum is a great resource for us and I've been trying to read thru past posts as I have time.

[Mulegirl]

Originally Posted by dndweeks

Right now my husband is leaning toward a tractor coop to help provide a little more protection. Also, if the chickens tend to stay fairly close the coop, a tractor coop would allow us to move them to parts of the property they may not go themselves. However, I still want to just let them out of the coop onto the property so they can peck to their little heart's content. Could we do a combination of both?

Ours are currently in a coop with yard (the previous owners of the property put a gazebo in a weird place, but it's perfect for chickens), but we're going to move them to the tractor-electronet setup I mentioned in my first post for the summer. We're doing it for two reasons: first, they really, really like eating the green stuff, and second, our yard is complete crap right now so we'll be using the lazy person/busy person chicken-tilling method to get the yard scratched up so we can start growing some useful ground cover. We're doing the electronet since we have random roaming dogs around at all hours and don't feel like having to SSS. Plus the chicken poo that accumulated on the walkways and deck last year was kind of gross . . . the ladies kept coming up to visit. Oh, and they kept scratching in my garden patches. So even if they're not eating things in your garden, they might just dig stuff up because the dirt is nice and soft and fun to scratch in, or better yet, dustbathe in. So this summer, they're getting confined.

I'd recommend going with a simpler setup as you're learning chickens. Get them definitely a secure coop or tractor for night time, and experiment with your daytime setup to see what you need and what works. Don't dive in too fast or expensive, and you'll do all right.

[Haven]

I got my first batch of free range chickens just under 1 year ago. Here is what I have learned that may help - things I didnt hear people talk about as potential issues:

-Keep the coop far from the house unless you plan on cleaning a lot. Your fly population will increase, even if it is 300 feet from the house.

-I have noticed that many people have a predator problem. So far (knock on wood) I have not. I attribute this to being surrounded by people who keep their animals well-contained and protected, with no really close neighbors. The predators have not had a chance to become accustom to attacking small livestock. I did, however have a pack of coyotes in the yard 1 month ago, but we ran them off before they had a chance to kill. Dogs on your property will deter potential predatory issues from starting - just be sure the dogs are also safe from being lured by coyotes.

-They will dig and tear up all of your plantings and lanscaping. Build an extra large fenced run for them so you can keep them in the run if free ranging starts causing too much damage.

-They will walk up to your house, look in your windows and poop all over your walkways and patios and chairs. Very cute, but lots of cleaning. They will also jump into all your potted plants, smash them and dig them up.

Hope this helps. If i would of known how dirty and destructive free range chickens can be, I would of expanded my run to 3x the size and just kept them contained. That being said, they are beautiful and I really enjoy having them around the property. I only lock them up at night.

[dndweeks]

Originally Posted by Haven

I got my first batch of free range chickens just under 1 year ago. Here is what I have learned that may help - things I didnt hear people talk about as potential issues:

-Keep the coop far from the house unless you plan on cleaning a lot. Your fly population will increase, even if it is 300 feet from the house.

-I have noticed that many people have a predator problem. So far (knock on wood) I have not. I attribute this to being surrounded by people who keep their animals well-contained and protected, with no really close neighbors. The predators have not had a chance to become accustom to attacking small livestock. I did, however have a pack of coyotes in the yard 1 month ago, but we ran them off before they had a chance to kill. Dogs on your property will deter potential predatory issues from starting - just be sure the dogs are also safe from being lured by coyotes.

-They will dig and tear up all of your plantings and lanscaping. Build an extra large fenced run for them so you can keep them in the run if free ranging starts causing too much damage.

-They will walk up to your house, look in your windows and poop all over your walkways and patios and chairs. Very cute, but lots of cleaning. They will also jump into all your potted plants, smash them and dig them up.

Hope this helps. If i would of known how dirty and destructive free range chickens can be, I would of expanded my run to 3x the size and just kept them contained. That being said, they are beautiful and I really enjoy having them around the property. I only lock them up at night.

Thank you! This is very helpful information.

[Mulegirl]

Haven, that's interesting that you have fly population issues--our coop is about 20 feet from the house, and we didn't notice any substantial issues with flies. The coop does have a concrete floor, though, which might have made a difference . . . even when we had rainy days, the bedding stayed pretty dry. Are you working with a dirt floor in your coop?

[Haven]

Mule, I use deep litter woodchips and the coop is far from the house. COuld of just been the weather, but I also have rabbits and dogs. Just never noticed the fly explosion till the chickens came.

[dndweeks]

Originally Posted by Mulegirl

Ours are currently in a coop with yard (the previous owners of the property put a gazebo in a weird place, but it's perfect for chickens), but we're going to move them to the tractor-electronet setup I mentioned in my first post for the summer. We're doing it for two reasons: first, they really, really like eating the green stuff, and second, our yard is complete crap right now so we'll be using the lazy person/busy person chicken-tilling method to get the yard scratched up so we can start growing some useful ground cover. We're doing the electronet since we have random roaming dogs around at all hours and don't feel like having to SSS. Plus the chicken poo that accumulated on the walkways and deck last year was kind of gross . . . the ladies kept coming up to visit. Oh, and they kept scratching in my garden patches. So even if they're not eating things in your garden, they might just dig stuff up because the dirt is nice and soft and fun to scratch in, or better yet, dustbathe in. So this summer, they're getting confined.

I'd recommend going with a simpler setup as you're learning chickens. Get them definitely a secure coop or tractor for night time, and experiment with your daytime setup to see what you need and what works. Don't dive in too fast or expensive, and you'll do all right.

A couple questions here.

What is electro net?
What is SSS?

[Dead Rabbit]

delete, delete, delete

[Mulegirl]

Originally Posted by dndweeks

A couple questions here.

What is electro net?
What is SSS?

Electronet is net-style electric fencing--there are a number of places that sell kits (for instance, see http://www.premier1supplies.com/deta...?prod_id=44094) and it can be an easy way to do a more secure and movable poultry yard. It's also good for other livestock--we're considering getting some for goats when we start doing goats.

SSS is an abbreviation that you'll see around here--"shoot, shovel, and shut up." It's a somewhat controversial method for handling persistent neighbor-animal problems, usually recommended as a last resort when your neighbor won't do anything, for instance, about his dog that keeps attacking your livestock or otherwise damaging your property. Not something most of us want to have to do, hence our decision to use the electronet to shock the neighbor-dogs' wet little noses before they can get to close to our chickens.

[dndweeks]

Originally Posted by Mulegirl

Electronet is net-style electric fencing--there are a number of places that sell kits (for instance, see http://www.premier1supplies.com/deta...?prod_id=44094) and it can be an easy way to do a more secure and movable poultry yard. It's also good for other livestock--we're considering getting some for goats when we start doing goats.

SSS is an abbreviation that you'll see around here--"shoot, shovel, and shut up." It's a somewhat controversial method for handling persistent neighbor-animal problems, usually recommended as a last resort when your neighbor won't do anything, for instance, about his dog that keeps attacking your livestock or otherwise damaging your property. Not something most of us want to have to do, hence our decision to use the electronet to shock the neighbor-dogs' wet little noses before they can get to close to our chickens.

We will be checking into the electronet! Thanks!!!!

[dndweeks]

And since we're in the research and learning mode, how many chickens do you recommend a beginner start out with?

Hubby is thinking 8 – 10 egg layers and maybe two batches of 15 – 20 meat chickens the first year. Is it reasonable to think that we, as beginners, could start with that many chickens at once?

If you have some chickens for eggs and others for meat, do you keep them all in the same coop/yard or seperate them?

[Fat Man]

8-10 is a decent number to start with a laying flock. you might even have extra eggs to sell. We currently are down to eight and Mrs Man sells a couple of dozen a week at work for $3/dozen. We deep litter the coop and keep ours in a 50x50 run and they share with my daughters toy goats. While there are flies there it isn't too bad and they don't seem to drift the 100 ft to the house. The major day time predators are stray dogs and hawks (in that order) if you shut the coop at night they should be fairly secure.

Chickens are a good thing to start with, I think of them as the gate way drug to livestock.

[Mulegirl]

Originally Posted by dndweeks

And since we're in the research and learning mode, how many chickens do you recommend a beginner start out with?

Hubby is thinking 8 – 10 egg layers and maybe two batches of 15 – 20 meat chickens the first year. Is it reasonable to think that we, as beginners, could start with that many chickens at once?

If you have some chickens for eggs and others for meat, do you keep them all in the same coop/yard or seperate them?

Do you have any prior experience with chickens, and particularly with slaughtering chickens? Your layer numbers sound good (especially if you're going with heritage breeds that don't lay quite as much), but if you're going to be learning the slaughter process for the first time, you might want to go with a lower number of meat chickens. The whole process takes longer as you're learning. We did just 12 this year, and in two batches it took us a couple hours at a time since we were still getting our routine down.

What breed(s) are you getting? They can stay together and eat the same feed until the pullets start laying, at which point they'll need the layer feed's supplements, though you can just give free choice oyster shell and keep them all on the same feed.