Newbie with pigs

[GFamFarm]

Good morning everyone I am closing on a 10 acre farm and want to have some pigs. Im looking at getting some mulefoot hogs and have a few questions. I've done tons of research on this forum already but still need some things answered.
1) i will have about 2 acres penned off for the 8 pigs i want. If i only get 1 boar to the 7 sows, will that one boar be enough to constantly breed the sows? I have a couple local resturants that want local heritage pork so i figured i could make some more pocket cash by doing this also along with finally gettingout of the city (i grew up on a horse farm).

2) how many pigs can i pasture in those 2 acres? I want to make sure i dont crowd and stress them.

3) i have done tons of research on barley sprouts and think i am going to go that route for feed. For those who have experience in it, do i need to suppliment it with anything else except for some hay as rufage?

Thanks to everyone in advance. This forum is a wealth of knowledge!

[highlands]

I would suggest dividing that two acres into paddocks to do rotational grazing. It is quite simple to do and will improve your soils as well as controlling parasites.. Start by getting up a good perimeter fence with electric and then as needed make the paddocks powered off of that.

The rule of thumb is that to justify the cost of a boar it takes six sows if by seed (commercial hog feed/grain) and three if by land (pasture).

I figure on ten pigs per acre being sustainable with our northern mountain soils and no commercial feed but supplementing with whey. More is possible if feeding with grain. This is with managed rotational grazing.

See:
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/?s=rotational+grazing
http://sugarmtnfarm.com/how-much-land-per-pig/

[agreatday]

It seems to me (and I'm admittedly relatively new at this) that 7 sows will give you a LOT of piglets.

[ben70b]

Originally Posted by agreatday

It seems to me (and I'm admittedly relatively new at this) that 7 sows will give you a LOT of piglets.

Could give you a lot of piglets

[GFamFarm]

I have three large 4&5 star resturants that want "everything" i can produce. Is that to many sows to start with? I grew up on a horse farm and im not brand new to animals.

[highlands]

You're planning on going from zero to supplying three large restaurants? You're in over your head. You need to learn to crawl before you try to become a marathon runner. And it is a marathon. Retailers need consistent quality in quantity week in and week out year round for years.

Jumping into breeding is the worst thing you can do if you don't know how to take care of pigs. You need to get experience and that will take years. Raise pigs for a few summers. Learn the ropes. Get some infrastructure in place like fencing, loading, water, feeding, housing, etc. Learn how to deal with the butcher and the retailer. Deal with whole pig sales and then advance to retail cuts. Do a business plan but know that it will be wrong because you don't know enough yet. Learn to walk before you try to run.

Then once you have some experience do a business plan to expand. This is when you want to start looking at those standing order wholesale customers like the star restaurants you are talking about. You don't want to goof up with them now and lose them in the future.

Step back, take a deep breath and work on getting down the basics. You have a lot to learn. Take it slow. Enjoy the process. It's a get ahead slowly game. I realize this isn't what you wanted to hear but that is reality.

7 sows x 8 piglets/litter typical x 2.3 litters/year x survival rate = piglets/year...

Check out the archives of the forum. Here are some closely related threads:
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/liv...-too-fast.html
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/liv...oney-made.html
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/liv...ling-pigs.html
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/liv...g-our-own.html

Cheers,

-Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/

[GFamFarm]

Reality is what i need to hear. I see an opportunity to really make some money and maybe even quit my day job at the clinic to just work the farm and that really excited me. Also, I have a habit of diving head first into things Would you recommend I start with 1 boar and 3 sows? I do have a few people who want to buy whole/half hog for their families.

[gerold]

Originally Posted by GFamFarm

Reality is what i need to hear. I see an opportunity to really make some money and maybe even quit my day job at the clinic to just work the farm and that really excited me. Also, I have a habit of diving head first into things Would you recommend I start with 1 boar and 3 sows? I do have a few people who want to buy whole/half hog for their families.

Go for it. If the market is in your area take advantage of it. I started 2 and half years ago with 8 yorkshire Gilts and one boar. Still can't fill all the orders. I sell to the 4h kids and feeder pigs and butcher hogs. Also a nice percent of breeding stock.
Just be sure to have a fence up and pasture planted for them. They just about take care of themselves. Good water and feed them once a day. Takes about 1hour a day of my time. Except when i load them etc.

[Mulegirl]

Originally Posted by GFamFarm

Reality is what i need to hear. I see an opportunity to really make some money and maybe even quit my day job at the clinic to just work the farm and that really excited me. Also, I have a habit of diving head first into things Would you recommend I start with 1 boar and 3 sows? I do have a few people who want to buy whole/half hog for their families.

Being new to pigs myself, honestly, I would tell you to start with a couple of feeders first. Wait to get the breeders until you're familiar with pigs as an animal, and have a chance to check out the different breeds firsthand. Seriously. One season with just a pair of feeders will give you valuable experience and will not delay your plans by very long. Our two have taught us quite a lot about pigs in the 4-ish months we've had them, and I now have a better idea of what I want to look for if/when I ever decide to buy a sow and raise my own.

Have you dived in head first on any other large animals before? It can be a very expensive mistake if something goes wrong. What's your current situation? How big of a change would this be for you? Do you have any livestock right now? What is your livestock experience beyond equines? Give us more detail so that we can tailor information to your situation.

[DaziAcres]

What Walter said.

Also, restaurants don't necessarily want the whole hog, just specific cuts. Do you have a market for the rest of the meat or the freezer space to store it?

Another also: we had a restaurant tell us they wanted to buy our chicken and would be ordering 12 a week. They ordered 12 the first week and then sometimes it was 6 or 9. 5 star restaurant with a slow summer and there was nothing we could do but fill orders for less than we had planned.

[cooper101]

Originally Posted by GFamFarm

Reality is what i need to hear. I see an opportunity to really make some money and maybe even quit my day job at the clinic to just work the farm and that really excited me. Also, I have a habit of diving head first into things Would you recommend I start with 1 boar and 3 sows? I do have a few people who want to buy whole/half hog for their families.

There is the whole opportunity knocking thing... I would start wtih feeders, but learn/ramp up as quick as I could, and see where it went. With your amount of land, you might be better off just buying feeders. To make breeding cost-effective, you need to produce a pretty significant number of pigs per year. Those 2 acres will be your limiting factor. You won't be able to put all the pigs you farrow from a cost-effective breeding program on just 2 acres. And you have to put the sows and boar somewhere. Yes, you can sell the extra feeders, but if your focus is supplying premium pork to restaurants, trying to sell extra feeders is a distraction.

Unless the restaurants are dead-set on mule-foots, just get some heritage breed feeders and start with that. Find a breeder who would want to be your sole supplier and work with him/her to breed what and when you want. It allows you to smooth out your supply if you're buying 10-20% of someone else's litters. If they're in the business of selling weaners, it's a natural fit for them. I'm not expressing that well, but finding a good sole source of weaners is a very good thing. A disaster for you if they get out of the business, but very good if they stick around.

And true, they will not want every cut unless they have pretty creative chefs and adventurous patrons. So, figure out what to do with the extras. Half of my buyers have no idea what cuts come from a pig; they've heard of bacon and pork chops before and are pretty sure ham comes from pigs. Diners are no different. Profit disappears pretty quickly when you can't sell a third of the pig.

Don't be discouraged, because it's a good thing when people say "I want to buy what you have." But, do the best you can to get them something in the near term, learn what works, don't invest a ton of money into it, IMO don't buy breeding stock, and see where it goes. I've found that people who buy this kind of product are very loyal if you do it right. Do it right (even if on an initially smaller scale) and odds are they'll be patient if they like the product.

[highlands]

Originally Posted by GFamFarm

Would you recommend I start with 1 boar and 3 sows?

I would suggest putting reserve deposits on four to ten feeder weaner piglets to raise over the coming warm season. This will help you get your feet in the mud, get a feel for pigs, find out if you enjoy working with them and have the touch, get infrastructure in place like fencing, water, housing, etc.

All of these are feeders - that is they're destine for the cutting table, not breeders. You need time to learn.

Once you have learned how to raise a batch over a summer or two then consider doing a winter because when you have feeders you have to keep them year round. Keeping pigs in the winter is a different set of skills than in the summer. In our climate that means up on snow pack. In other climates that means in mud. In some places they do them indoors in a barn. Each is different than having them outdoors.

Then, once you've mastered winter and summer think to breeding. I would suggest with one guaranteed bred sow ideally, a bred gilt as second choice. The reason is not all pigs are fertile. You don't have the keen eye of a breeder yet. Let someone you trust to have this pick the lady for you, let them do the match making. If you're gung-ho then start with several ladies but you don't need a boar yet.

Keeping breeders is a lot harder than raising feeders. Yes, doing one sow is kind of fun for the family but having your livelihood depend on it, your mortgage payment depend on it is a whole other ball of wax. Don't jump in the deep end of the pool yet. Learn to swim first.

Don't worry too much about breed this first year. Just do some pigs.

-Walter

PS. If everyone could fill in their location in their profile it helps with communicating about things since climates are different. For example our winters are dry and cold up on snow pack. Our summers are mild in the 70°F range with wind. Someone in Texas has a very different winter and summer experience. Someone in Washington state may spend the winter up to their knees in mud. Zone hopes. State helps. Even micro-climate like we're in the mountains vs warm Burlington make a difference when thinking about how things are. You can fill in your profile in the "My Profile" in the upper right corner of the page.

[GFamFarm]

I live in Central Wisconsin and have a 10 acre "farmette" with about 5-6 acres of pasture. This winter has been bitter cold, a few days it was -25 and -44 with the wind chill. I know pigs are pretty hardy but is that kind of cold to cold for them? Should they be kept in the barn during that kind of wind chill?

I was just going to start with 2 acres and rotate them within that and expand as I see fit. When I was growing up our main source of income was horses but we did have several cattle and a couple pigs. They were mostly for us and some friends though. So this isnt a far stretch for me. I do like the idea of getting some feeders. I do have a contact that breeds Guinea Hog just down the road that I could get a few from. Should I get heritage feeders or will normal commercial pigs (they are about $40 for a weened feeder around here) work also? Everyone here is a wealth of knowledge and thank you for so much response to this thread!!!

[cooper101]

I have 3 that were out in this cold we've had in a 3-sided hut with lots of hay. They're fine, but gonna lose a couple ear tips.

Fed well, the pork will be excellent. Breed matters some, but not as much as diet and living conditions. I wouldn't do guinea hogs if you intend to sell to restaurants. Heritage breeds help marketing, but a regular old commercial pig will turn out just fine if fed well. You obviously have a good connection with the restaurants you're talking to. They may not care one bit about breed as long as they're raised and fed well. Ask them what they think.

[GFamFarm]

The restaurants want pork that has some marbling and that has better flavor. They also want local pork and i am centrally located between Green Bay, Eau Claire, and Madison. According to the Ark of Tasted and a blind competition that was done involving many heritage breeds and a commercial breed of hog, the mulefoot beat out everyone in taste. That is why I decided on mulefoot hogs. Also, they are said to fair very well in the mid-west states. Any opinions on that?

[cooper101]

A lot goes into taste. I believe that diet is about 80%, living conditions 10% and breed maybe 10%. All fed and raised equally, mulefoots seem to usually rank at the top. But, feed and raise a blue-butt better than a mulefoot and the mule-foot will lose.

Anything you raise will be local, so that's taken care of. Almost any pig you raise on pasture with a premium diet will taste much better than store-bought. Among pigs all raised equally, I bet only a very few people can distinguish differences by breed alone.

The problem I see with a breed like mule-foots is they're rare and when you do find them, they're usually expensive. Unless you breed your own, it may be tough to find them consistently. You can accomplish your goal of superior, local pork without the investment, risk, or inconsistency of a rare breed.

Find someone breeding crosses with some berkshire in them, feed them well, let them live on pasture, and you'll have the marbling and taste.

[cooper101]

Being in Dairy-land, try to find a source of waste milk, cheese scraps, whey, any dairy byproducts you can get. Feed about half that, half grain, and whatever they find in the pasture. That will get you all the taste and marbling you could want on about any kind of pig that's available.

[highlands]

Feed makes up most of the flavor.

Breed is much less significant and line within breed is more important.

Fat carries most of the flavor. Calories in the diet and breed are the dominant characteristics for the amount of fat so there is an interaction there.

We have multiple pure bred (Tamworth, Berkshire, Large Black) and our Mainline (YorkshirexBerkshirexTamworthxGOS) in addition to our crosses so I've gotten to compare a lot. We do scientific double blind taste testing just about every week. Part of the job, eating in the name of science. Our Mainline's the best of them but then I've put over ten years of intense weekly selection into culling them for flavor among other things so that's not surprising.

If you've got dairy you don't need to spend money on grain. Our pigs eat almost completely pasture/hay+dairy (mostly whey). They also get other stuff we grow like pumpkins, apples, sunflowers and such in season and such, a little bread for a training treat when we're sorting who goes to market each week, a little bit of spent barley from a local brew pub (great stuff, would love to have more, get it if you can).

Cheers,

-Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
Pastured Pigs, Sheep & Kids
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/

[DaziAcres]

We raised 5 mutts this first year (Yorkshire crosses); it was our first year and we got them at about 35-50 lbs each. They were raised in the woods with access to white acorns and we supplemented their feed with grain from Countryside Organics (expensive, but organic and non-GMO); they also had all the apples and pears we could throw at them.

And we've never tasted pork so sweet and our customers are over-the-top thrilled.

It's all about the feed. nom nom nom

[highlands]

I'm jealous of your oaks...

No pork tastes so sweet as that you've grown.