Pasture behavior vs. pen behavior observations

[Muleman]

I know there are those here who can chime in on this or who have observed it already, but for those who have not or who are just getting started, as I am, I will offer a few observations. I recently bought 5 different breeds of pigs, 2 each for a total of 10 pigs from 10 wks, to 6 mo. of age.
Now I started them out in a small pen, basically the garden fenced in, about 50' x 50'. I wanted to train them to electric and make sure if I needed to catch them I could. I then put electric wire around the back yard and have maybe 1 to 1 1/2 acre fenced for them now.
The first few weeks when they were in the garden pen only, I would feed them usually two times a day. The pigs would root a little and look around, but mostly they would wait to be feed then go lay down and sleep until feeding time again. Now that I am letting them out in the day, they are active roaming and rooting pretty much all day. This has changed my view of some of them such as the LB's, which seemed to just lay around the house all day, once the pasture was opened up to them they are as active during the day as any of the others.
I think this gets back to a point I have seen here about pigs raised for pasture vs. pigs raised for confinement. How much is instinct and how much is breeding and learned behavior? I do not know. I do know when I was evaluating the pigs for pasture use, but raising them in a smaller confinement (ie. the garden spot) I seen totally different behavior than when they were allowed to freely range over a bigger area.
The thing this had changed in my mind is that, not only is feed requirements going to change by adding pasture, but pig behavior also changes. The LB's, which I was not impressed with because of their lack of foraging when in the smaller pen, have done a complete 180 when allowed access to a bigger area and now forage all day. I still feed them just as much, as the small pasture is not enough for them now in the winter. So the lack of feed did not change the behavior, the access to more space did.
I have also observed that regardless of how many acorns are laying on top of the ground there is still something in the ground they root for and like better. I really do not see how anyone would keep grass and pasture (as we think of a flat grassy area) with the pigs on it. A big place, maybe so, but a small place, such as the little 1 1/2 acre spot? My pigs will have most of it rooted up in the net month at the rate they are going now.

[highlands]

Unfortunately, from such a small sample set (2 pigs per breed) one can not make good generalizations about the breeds. Within breeds there are large differences between lines.

For example, we have two different lines of Large Blacks. Both are good grazers, unlike what you're observing. However there are significant differences between the two in many respects. I have several lines of genetics for Tamworth and again there are differences between the lines. Even within our Mainline genetics I see differences and I've been hard selecting them for over a decade.

This variance is what lets you spread your cards out in front of you, pick them over and select the characteristics that you want. Unfortunately from a small sample set you can't make a generalization about the whole population.

I would agree with your note that there are both cultural issues (what the pigs learn from their mothers) and instinct issues. Both are at work in producing good pasture animals.

On the rooting, if there is good stuff below I observe they will root for it. If the good stuff is at the surface then they're much less likely to bother digging much. Basically they take what is easy but will dig if they need to get something. See:

http://SugarMtnFarm.com/rootless-in-vermont

[Muleman]

You are right in that I cannot make a definitive decision about the entire breed based on my small subject groups. I do not need to, or intend to make generalizations about entire breeds based on the behavior of my small groups. I can however, make a definitive decision about the characteristics of my small groups, eliminating groups and replacing with groups of the same breed from different producers, thus different lines. Through this process I can improve the herd, and in time weed out breeds/lines that continually fail my expectations. The fact is, if I only had two pigs and each year I replaced the least one with another and each year kept the best performer, I would over time have an improved animal, it would certainly be faster to start with a large group, but the culling process is the same regardless of the number of test subject.
Now, if my mulefoot gilts turn out to be bad performers I will eat them. Will I say the mulefoot breed is bad, No!! I will say the set I had was bad!. I can then replace them with a set from a different producer and try again. Now, if I do this over and over and they never perform to my standards, then yes, I can say the mulefoot breed is not good for my operation.
As to the rooting? I have no idea what they are eating? I am thinking they are digging up the older half rotted acorns from where they are digging, because there would be no roots in some of the areas. There are acorns laying on top of the ground that can be picked up by the handfuls. I was picking them up and feeding them to them before I let them out of the pen and they were certainly eating them. I still see them eating the ones on top of the ground throughout the day, but they are also digging for something.

[DEKE01]

those individuals that you might determine are bad might only be bad for you and your conditions. Someone else, with different soils, grasses, forbs, water, fences, cultures, etc might have better luck with them. If some are doing well for you and others not, why worry, just go with the good ones. If they are all not doing as well as you should expect, maybe it is something to do with your practices. ...not saying you are doing anything wrong, just offering a perspective. I've found in life that if my first question when things are going wrong is what is wrong with me or the things I'm doing, it gets me sooner to a useful fix.

[Muleman]

DEKE, I do understand where you are coming from and the point you are making and I do not think what I said earlier is contrary to your point. However, I do think if some of the pigs are doing well in my program and others are not, then the ones that are not are not a good fit for my program. Now, if none of them meet my expectations then I would certainly question my program. No matter if I had 2 pigs or 2000 pigs, I will never be able to say definitively any pig is bad. I can say it is bad for my program, climate, forage etc, with some certainty in a matter of time.
If some are meeting expectations and some are not, I think it would be a mistake to change the program, when we would have evidence that some could perform in the conditions. I would think it much more beneficial to either breed up from the good performers, or bring in different pigs that will do as well as the ones I keep.
I have no preconceived notions, as to which breed is better and I have no reason to PROVE one breed is superior to another. The only determining factor, in which ones I keep and which ones I eat, will be which ones perform well/or poor in my conditions. To do otherwise would be to lower my standards, so that they all succeeded regardless of the feed or length of time required to get to target weight.

[DEKE01]

Wait, this can't be happening. An internet discussion where all are 100% in agreement? Beware, the end of times must be near!

[highlands]

Originally Posted by Muleman

make a definitive decision about the characteristics of my small groups, eliminating groups and replacing with groups of the same breed from different producers, thus different lines. Through this process I can improve the herd, and in time weed out breeds/lines that continually fail my expectations.

Exactly and it works great. This is what we've been doing. Each generation sees improvement.

On the rooting, I find they root more the first pass through a new area, less the second, even less the third. Gradually they have gotten the sub-surface things and start focusing on the top stuff. Early on while there is brush they also eat a lot of twigs and leaves - browsing. Opportunists.

[Farmerjonathan]

Muleman, I have reread your posts and wonder what you are selecting for. What is your end result you are trying to achieve?
Also to what your pigs are still rooting for, grubs? Can be all kinds of critters, feed, roots/bulbs from weeds to plants they are eating.
Ralph Rice in the past two issues of Rural Heritage has outlined and discussed his use of pasture pigs for renovators and how he uses his boar in a pig tractor (like a chicken tractor) to till specific areas of a field/pasture.

[Bubbas Boys]

What is rural heritage and where can I find it? Haha

[Farmerjonathan]

Rural Heritage magazine, http://www.mischka.com/shop/
Utilizing past practices in today's world.

[Muleman]

FJ,
What I will be picking for is good growth and good foraging, easy keeping. The main thing will be producing the longer bacon type carcasses that I want and think the customers in my area will appreciate. I am not interested in producing the short bodied hogs, which I have seen in some breeds, such as the Mulefoot I got. But in the interest of science, I got some anyway to see first hand what type of carcass they will produce. The truth is, until I get the first litter to butcher weight much of the information, I will not have. That first and second round of piglets will tell me what I want to know. I am giving some of the pigs that are not doing so great right now the benefit of the doubt, as I do not know exactly how they were cared for before I got them. However, by the time I get the first litter on the ground I will be able to make good comparisons, because I will know the conditions they are all raised in. I am still looking to add in some Berkshires and some true Tamworth before we are done and probably some Yorkshire as well. I would have some already, but the truth is, we can do the best research and pick the best pig according to all of the literature, but unless money is no object, we will all be limited to what is available within a reasonable driving distance.

BubbaB, Rural Heritage is a magazine. You can find them online or in some bigger bookstores, maybe tractor supply? A real good back to the basics farming/living book. I have had subscriptions to them in the past on and off. I go through phases where i am subscribed to more magazines than I can read then weed some out and do not renew, then wish I wash getting them again. A good magazine especially if you are interested in using horse or mule drawn farming equipment and practices on your farm.

[Muleman]

I just wanted to point out that my main observation in this so far, was not what was a good breed or bad breed, but the fact that when some of them were in a small enclosure they tended to lay around a lot and do nothing!, but when offered the bigger space, they actually spent more time moving and foraging. I have read post where the general conscientious was to buy pigs from someone raising them on pasture, if you intend to raise them on pasture. Which is surely a good idea, but because a pig is being raised in confinement does not seem to indicate to me that they are necessarily poor foragers?
If I had judged grazing ability of my pigs by their activity in the small pen, I would have said some of them did not forage and graze well and I would have been wrong. Once they had the opportunity at the larger space they took advantage of that and began being more active throughout the day. This seems to indicate to me that many confinement raised pigs may would forage well, if they had the opportunity and was placed in a different environment.

[HerseyMI]

I see what you are saying but you are basing your opinion on a very short window of time. Like grazing characteristics, how could anyone possibly know without perhaps years of observation? Something I have noticed among our pigs is that they tend to "root" more in the fall.... I don't know why but it seems that way.

Our Hampshires graze just as much as our Herefords but the Hampshires are more destructive. The LBH piglet I have is half the size of the Hampshires of the same age all of which are kept together in the same growing pen, he is far less aggressive on feed, he does Not tolerate cold nearly as well as the Hampshires either. Now, is it just him, his line or LBH's entirely? Too early to tell and he may suddenly change too... I don't know. But one thing I know for sure, his bloodline will merely sprinkle our herd over time, the Hampshires and the Herefords are far more productive in weight gains. I am not even sure I will give the LBH an opportunity to breed if he isn't 250 pounds by 9 months of age... such a costly waste if that happens. I am beginning to think people raise them simply so they can say they saved a species from extinction... perhaps they should have been allowed to have gone extinct?

[Farmerjonathan]

Muleman, the last two issues of Rural Heritage magazine have good articles about pigs in pasture and using pigs as a tool for initial pasture renovation and removal of weeds. The LBH I don't understand. For longer pigs have you looked at the Landrace? Have 10 Landrace piglets in the barn now and they are growing very well. Obviously haven't been out on pasture but will be getting more this summer from the same farmer so will have a better idea later on. Looking forward to your updates.

Hersey, just like all good genetics, those heritage breeds may have been figured out long ago but what they offered to the upbreeding of another line of pigs may have been forgotten. They by themselves might be poor to adequate performers but may have something to offer like disease resistance or foraging ability or mothering or milking or bone structure, the list can go on and on. I like you do not have the time or money to "save" a heritage breed just because it is a heritage breed. Just putting in my two cents.

[Muleman]

Hersey,
I know with my small groups and short period of time I do not have a lot of information to go on, but you got to start somewhere. I will keep adding in other breeds as they come available in my area.
FarmerJ, It is funny because as I find with all of my magazines every once in a while they have an article I am really interested in. I usually buy one or two issues a year, then do the math and see that at news stand price I could have had the whole year at subscription rates!! I have looked for landrace in my area and have not found any just yet.
I have no particular draw to "Heritage" breeds other than everything I have read has talked about how they are better suited to pasture raising. I do think in certain circles the idea of raising Heritage hogs will be a good marketing tool, but enough to offset overly slow growth?? maybe not. To be honest I do not know how much of the Heritage breeds is really heritage and how many are considered Modern, but are just as old of a breed? Maybe it is all just marketing at a higher level?
I know my operation is not a definitive experiment on pig breeds/lines, but it is a start. I do enjoy the discussions here and really like seeing the experiences of others as compared to mine. You show me someone who has never made a mistake, and I will show you someone who has never done anything!

[Farmerjonathan]

Your last sentence, exactly how I feel also.