Questions pertaining to Berkshires, Old Spots and Large Blacks

BobbyB · #1 03/07/13, 07:26 PM

Here is the deal, the meat form the 2 York x Hamp we raised really isnt what we are looking for. All the fat is on the outside and the eat is far too dry and thus tasteless for us.

I guess thats to be expected with the high bred hogs of today.

I have been reading about meat qualities and talking to a few folks. Berkshires keeping rising to the top. A guy that runs a feed mill we deliver grain to and who has a huge following on their hog feeds told me he raised Poland Chinas for years, but had sold out. Then he told me of a guy that Raises Berkshires and for eating, they are about the best. This goes along with what I have read, and I know the pics of the various cuts online are what we are looking for.

Now I have found some folks that have some Old Spot x Large Blacks and some straight Old Spots. The price seems right on the crosses. I have emailed some folks in the past about the Large Blacks, researched and looked at pics of the meat and it looks good too. Marbling, more color and such. And the same for what research I have done on the Old Spots.

Karla and I have decided to get what we want, we are going to have to raise it.

I am seriously thinking about getting a couple of Berkshires , Large Blacks and Old spots , and maybe crossing them later.

We want lard along with highly marbled meat.

If we get a little less meat per hog, thats cool because we will just kill 2 or 3 instead of 1.

So , please feel free to jump in and give me your thoughts or even better. personal experiences with any of these breeds.

BobbyB · #2 03/07/13, 07:30 PM

I forgot to mention they will be fed pasture if it ever rains, what ever is left over from Karla's goat milking, garden leftovers, and various grains from work.

gerold · #3 03/07/13, 08:30 PM

Maybe you could get a Poland China butcher hog and try it. I know when i was growing up we had different breeds on the farm and the Poland China was the best as far as flavor.
I would like try a Berkshire sometime. However i have heard a lot of talk that some of the Berkshire has been bred to be more lean then the others and that it is not quite as good as the older breeds. I would like to get a couple Hereford sows but not many around and they are a bit costly now. I have Yorks now and they not got enough fat to make much sausage.

BobbyB · #4 03/07/13, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerold

Maybe you could get a Poland China butcher hog and try it. I know when i was growing up we had different breeds on the farm and the Poland China was the best as far as flavor.
I would like try a Berkshire sometime. However i have heard a lot of talk that some of the Berkshire has been bred to be more lean then the others and that it is not quite as good as the older breeds. I would like to get a couple Hereford sows but not many around and they are a bit costly now. I have Yorks now and they not got enough fat to make much sausage.

The pan sausage we made ( York crosses ) looked to have a decent amount of fat in it, but it cooks way to dry for my tastes. In fact, our ground beef leaves more grease in the pan that the sausage does.

I wanted Poland China first, but since Jason who raised them bragged on the other guy's Berks, that got my attention. Not to mention Poland Chinas are as hard to find as any other these days.

I have heard back form the gal with the Old Spots and they are expecting a couple of litters in 2-3 weeks. I believe there will 1 maybe 2 of those in our future and a Berkshire as well.

I was looking into Herefords, but what I found were in KS and since we are going to TN next week, another road trip is out for a while.

The Old Spots are an hour away, Berkshires 1 1/2 hours.

ErikaMay · #5 03/07/13, 10:17 PM

I actually have a litter of Old Spot x Yorkshires that are 6 weeks old. The fellow who sold the boar to me was adamant this would be the best possible cross: so much so he is buying two piglets of mine! However, I can't say for the quality yet because I have yet to butcher one. The York's brother was decently moist and fatty meat. Then again I wasn't looking for lard...but what i had of York was pretty good. (Maybe the fat was from growing up eating bakery day olds of bread and pastries. The stinkers got bear claws and croissants daily!)

Old Spots do have more fat and suppposedly "red' meat The bacon and ham sort of meat. (as opposed to the york which is "white" meat for roasts and such). They seem to be nice pigs...my boar, Mr.Pig, was a pleasure....he just ate us out of house and home! They fatten up well on grains from what I have observed. Mr.Pigs brother made 75 lbs of bacon and two big hams...but not much in the way of roasts.

I don't have experience with any other piggies! I hope that was some help.

Laura Workman · #6 03/08/13, 07:52 PM

American Guinea Hogs!!!

BobbyB · #7 03/08/13, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laura Jensen

American Guinea Hogs!!!

I did consider them for about ....... that long. I do want a bit more meat to fat.

Laura Workman · #8 03/08/13, 09:59 PM

Yeh, some of those do look amazingly fat, like Mangalitsas. Below is a picture of some chops and a roast from a 9-month-old Guinea Hog I butchered a couple months ago, sitting on a regular dinner plate. (I grabbed them out of the freezer to take the picture, and they were frosty and not wrapped particularly carefully.) I skinned him, and did a pretty good job if I say so myself. I took off very little fat with the skin. Those chops are un-trimmed, so about 3/4-inch backfat, max, on a 120-pound pig? It's hard to see the marbling, but notice the meat color.

ben70b · #9 03/09/13, 06:43 AM

i raised some berks last fall, never kept one for myself tho, i kept a duroc-york cross that taste dam good to me. as far as the berks, everyone says they are extremely lean. these hogs where close to 300lbs each on the hoof. two of em told me there wasnt enuf grease left over to make gravy when they cook it.

BobbyB · #10 03/09/13, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben70b

i raised some berks last fall, never kept one for myself tho, i kept a duroc-york cross that taste dam good to me. as far as the berks, everyone says they are extremely lean. these hogs where close to 300lbs each on the hoof. two of em told me there wasnt enuf grease left over to make gravy when they cook it.

''Thats twice you've said that. I recognize the quote because it is nearly word for word from another post. Yet all I have read and I have been talking to breeders say the opposite. All of the pics I have seen with really good marbling in the meat just dont add up to dry meat. What I have in the freezer does.

One breeder I have been talking with says he has a deal with a butcher for a premium price on his market weight Berks as that is all the butcher wants . That seems to say something to me about the meat.

ben70b · #11 03/09/13, 01:04 PM

yeah i never got to try it myself, i wish i coulda, but i sold em off. the funny thing is that the people that i sold those hogs to dont know each other yet they all say the same thing. the guy at the feed mill bought one from me, he said he always heard that the berk meat was like the old pork. maybe its something i am doing or the feed or something. i'll see if i can trade something for a couple of the berk chops, i'll thaw em and take some pics, then cook em and try em. i'll post pics if i can pull it off

BobbyB · #12 03/09/13, 01:38 PM

Dont think I dont believe what you were told, it just doesnt fit what I have been seeing or told. In the other thread you said you raised 5 I believe. I wonder how the other 3 turned out?

I guess I am just going to go ahead and get one of each and see how they turn out.

I may get 2 of each and, butcher one of each then breed a Berk to an Old Spot and see what that gives me.

haypoint · #13 03/09/13, 02:03 PM

Before I blamed York or Hamp modern hybrids, I'd look at your feeding plan.
Pigs fed a lot of high quality feed, corn, soy, minerals, plenty of fresh water and fresh air grow fast and deposit fat in the meat. Cut back on their feed and they grow slower and don't have those fat reserves. Once they are fully grown, they convert feed to outside fat. Based on almost no information, I'd guess your pigs were fed twice a day and didn't reach 240 pound ideal market size until they were 7 or 8 months old.
But that's just a guess and my opinion.

BobbyB · #14 03/09/13, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

Before I blamed York or Hamp modern hybrids, I'd look at your feeding plan.
Pigs fed a lot of high quality feed, corn, soy, minerals, plenty of fresh water and fresh air grow fast and deposit fat in the meat. Cut back on their feed and they grow slower and don't have those fat reserves. Once they are fully grown, they convert feed to outside fat. Based on almost no information, I'd guess your pigs were fed twice a day and didn't reach 240 pound ideal market size until they were 7 or 8 months old.
But that's just a guess and my opinion.

Yes it is and its completely wrong

ben70b · #15 03/09/13, 03:11 PM

you are right, i had five berks, i sold two gilts to a man who wanted to breed them, the remaining three barrows went to butcher. i then sold one to the feed man, another to a horse farmer and the largest was split between a truck driver with one hand and my sister. funny you would ask people for their opinions and then tell them their opinions are wrong. sounds to me like you already know everything anyhow.

BobbyB · #16 03/09/13, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben70b

you are right, i had five berks, i sold two gilts to a man who wanted to breed them, the remaining three barrows went to butcher. i then sold one to the feed man, another to a horse farmer and the largest was split between a truck driver with one hand and my sister. funny you would ask people for their opinions and then tell them their opinions are wrong. sounds to me like you already know everything anyhow.

I didnt say your opinion was wrong, you dont have one. You said yourself you didnt even get to try any of the meat. You told me what some else told you, making it another person's opinion and that was from a very small sample of hogs. .

And to date, yours are the only bad comments I have seen. When you said what you said, I set out to see if I could find similar comments on Berkshire meat. And so far, I have not.

You can take one person's response and go to the bank with it if you like, I dont.

It's ok tho. I have some Berk pigs lined up, some Old Spots lined up and a Berk gilt thats is almost breeding age.

I'll see for myself. Thats the best way anyhow. Thanks for the replies.

ben70b · #17 03/09/13, 04:34 PM

i do look forward to hearing your results

livinzoo · #18 03/10/13, 11:21 AM

I have Old Spots and I also have a few large black/ berkshire cross sows that I cross my Old Spot boar over. The old spots have a nice red meat and stay moist when cooked properly. My crosses sell out quickly, this time I sold almost 30 without even advertising. What I find if someone says pork is dry that usually they are cooking it to long. If you are looking for a tender piece of pork, I would suggest that you brine the meat for 12-24 hours and than cook it to 145 degrees F and not much higher. If you get your cuts cut too thin than it is harder to get them cooked to the right temperature without overcooking it.

HardBall · #19 04/28/13, 11:20 PM

Berks are consistently #1 on meat quality and IMF standards. I would go that route if you are looking for the best meat to fat ratios.

gerold · #20 04/29/13, 08:59 AM

http://www.bestpork.us/History_L3SJ.html

Hi Bobby.
I have done some research on different breeds. I have tried Yorks(which i have now),
Duroc,Berkshire,Hamps. And the crosses mostly bluebutts. People have been asking for more fat. I will be switching to the Hereford/Berkshire hog this year. The Hereford and Berkshire are suppose to be number one for taste. The only drawback i see with the Hereford is the sow has less piglets then the Berkshire. I will be crossing the Hereford,Berkshire,Yorkshire and see what comes out. In the main i will be raising Hereford. Another thing is the protein. Show hogs get very high protein which make them grow fast and with a lot of muscle. Corn/Soy mix like 16% will give a little more fat.

A little about the Berkshire in link below.

http://www.allenbrothers.com/blog/re...ter-by-far.htm