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  #1  
Old 12/13/05, 06:43 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Indiana
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Interesting article

Would this work?

http://www.stockmangrassfarmer.net/c...age.cgi?id=425

Follower hogs eliminate cattle worming for Gulf Coast grazier
by Allan Nation
HOUSTON, Texas: Running free-range pigs with cattle has eliminated the need for cattle worming while providing a profitable salable product for Texas grazier Brett Jones.

Jones who ranches just north of the George Bush International Airport in Houston, started running pigs with his replacement heifers in 2002.

He said he has not wormed the heifers in two years whereas previously he had to worm his cattle twice a year in the hot, humid Gulf Coast climate.

Pigs are a dead-end host for cattle parasites and provide an excellent way to keep pastures low in cattle parasite infestation. “Pigs really relish fresh cow manure,” he said.

The pigs are normally run at a roughly one pig per three beeves ratio. At this ratio, the pigs are able to live solely on cow manure except during the winter when he supplements them with day-old bread.

They are never fed grain.

“We don’t do anything special for the free-ranging pigs except provide them with a summer wallow,” he said.

Jones said red hogs take the heat the best and are the easiest to get the hair off of at slaughter.

“It’s phenomenal, the hogs do well and the cattle do better. It’s a win-win situation.”

He said heavier pigs in the 170- to 200-pound range make better follower animals as they are easier to fence. However, pigs as light as 80 pounds can be used.

Some of his pigs are not harvested until they weigh 400 pounds or more. He said the heavier the pig the better it does on pasture.

He uses three-wire permanent electric exterior fences with the top wire at 40 inches, and the bottom at 6 inches and the middle wire halfway between the two. Such a three-wire spacing allows cattle, goats and pigs to be grazed together.

Interior paddock fencing is all 40 inches high with no lower wires as only the cattle are rotationally grazed. The pigs and goats are allowed to free-range.

The goats primarily live on tallow trees, hedge and smut grass (a weed) and compete very little with the cattle for grass.

Cattle, goats and hogs are generally not susceptible to each others internal parasites and become dead-end hosts for each other when mix grazed. He said mixing species was nature’s way of preventing disease and parasitism.

He found a fence energizer that puts out a continuous charge rather than a pulsed charge is best with pigs. With a pulsed charge the pigs seem more willing to test the exterior fence.

Jones said ringing the pigs’ noses was absolutely necessary to prevent pasture destruction. He said the best nose ring was the one with a point on it from Jeffers Supply in Alabama.

This pointed ring can be used one to a pig. Otherwise, two ordinary nose rings were necessary per pig.

“If you start seeing furrows in the pasture, you’ll know a pig has lost its nose ring,” he said.

Jones direct markets all of his pigs live to local Hispanics for between $110 and $170 a head. Spent sows are also direct marketed for $100 a head for whole hog sausage.

“The only advertising I do is a small sign on the highway,” he said.

Jones also sells live goats and cabrito (young male goats) to the same Hispanic customer base as the pigs.

In 12 years of raising hogs on pasture he said he has never lost a single animal to disease.
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  #2  
Old 12/13/05, 06:44 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 174
Could you truly not supplement feed the pigs and just graze and would they live off the manure?

Dan
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  #3  
Old 12/13/05, 07:31 PM
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Sounds gross but cool and efficiant at the same time!
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  #4  
Old 12/13/05, 11:33 PM
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My granddad and dad use to do this with feeder pigs back in the day...Let them run with the feeder calves to "clean up the corn" We thought about doing this again a few years ago...but didn't cuz of the nose rings. So yeah...sounds like it can be done...I mean..they freerange, so not only do they clean up, they also eat grass and what not....It would just take longer for them to put on their weight. and they are in Texas...so yeah....year around they could...
AJ
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  #5  
Old 12/14/05, 07:41 AM
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All the while reading the article I was thinking about the holes those pigs would root up and the danger to the cows - figures someone would think of the money-making venture to put nose rings on :1pig: in pasture so they could only eat crap. Inhumane, imo but hey the market for end stage grass fed pork is probably lucrative as long as they don't label the pork with: "These pigs were raised in pasture with nose rings so they couldn't partake of one of thir most fundamental instincts in order to nourish themselves solely on cow dung. Enjoy!" Don't know who makes up the consumer market for grass fed products; I thought at least some people in that market would also care about the way the animal was raised. But their are always consumers who don't care.
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Last edited by Tango; 12/14/05 at 07:45 AM.
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  #6  
Old 12/14/05, 03:38 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
All the while reading the article I was thinking about the holes those pigs would root up and the danger to the cows - figures someone would think of the money-making venture to put nose rings on :1pig: in pasture so they could only eat crap. Inhumane, imo but hey the market for end stage grass fed pork is probably lucrative as long as they don't label the pork with: "These pigs were raised in pasture with nose rings so they couldn't partake of one of thir most fundamental instincts in order to nourish themselves solely on cow dung. Enjoy!" Don't know who makes up the consumer market for grass fed products; I thought at least some people in that market would also care about the way the animal was raised. But their are always consumers who don't care.

Good point. I was getting into greedy mode by wondering if it would be that simple vs. being a good steward. Thanks for the reminder!
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  #7  
Old 12/15/05, 10:05 AM
 
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How many people do you know, besides this board, that ever ask where their meat came from, much less care. Most people don't even know that the meat they buy in the store used to be a cow, pig, chicken. They just want something to eat. When selling to hispanic population, many of them come from such poor circumstances that they don't care how the animal is raised if they can afford to eat it. This is still more humane than the factory farmed hogs that most people eat.
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  #8  
Old 12/15/05, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gccrook
They just want something to eat. When selling to hispanic population, many of them come from such poor circumstances that they don't care how the animal is raised if they can afford to eat it.
Being Cuban myself, I think this is a generalization. There are as many hispanics with compassion as their are any other ethnic groups. You're basically right about the other stuff. Most people look at the price tag and that is the sole deciding factor.
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  #9  
Old 12/15/05, 11:31 AM
 
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i was woundering,i am currently fattening 3 steers in a pen and am looking at getting 3 pigs. i was going to build a seperate pen for the pigs, but could i just "pig-proof" the steer pen and put the pigs in with them.
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  #10  
Old 12/15/05, 07:30 PM
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Pigs with rings can still root, just not 5 or 6 inches deep. Pigs with rings can still eat grass. Pigs with rings can still root rocks and downed trees out of the way to find grubs.
Our pigs do not have rings, yet they root in and eat cow manure - and no, they are not hungry, just pigs. Lots of things go through cows partially digested or undigested.
Bugs lay eggs in cow manure which hatch into delicious, nutritious baby bugs.
Our pigs will also very happily [[[GASP]]] eat anything dead they come across.

Can you say anthropomorphism?

The only problem I have with this guy's method is that he feed his otherwise healthy, free-ranged pigs nasty, processed, nutritionally bankrupt BREAD in the winter.
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Old 12/16/05, 09:15 PM
 
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The approach of pigs could also be looked at as "rooters" and let them till what you want--plenty of good manure too. I didn't ring mine because I wanted them to dig to China, which they do, at least 2ft. Most of the damage they do appears to come from their hooves though the most dramatic is the craters. They've cleaned up a lot of area that really needed it and I don't mind raking the dirt back into the holes.

I think Salatin did an article about using them in paddocks and getting them to mix in seed, then remove them, then wait, then put them back to consume the biomass as a means of creating pasture. All that cellulose and manure on somewhat virgin ground would grow some nice grass. If the paddocks were big enough the damage would be somewhat isolated.

I would mention that most Hispanics we encounter are from "Agrarian" background and thus likely know quite a bit about where their food comes from, and those concerned about ringing a pig's nose or the idea of the consumtion of feces should trace their grocery meat back to the confinement houses and either give up their consumtion of the product or accept that many of us are giving animals a good and healthy life, however short it may be. What would you think they'd rather live like? In the open air with endless grass and a ring in their nose, or in solitary in a box in a big metal building living on medicines.

--usband O' G

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Old 12/16/05, 10:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango
Being Cuban myself, I think this is a generalization. There are as many hispanics with compassion as their are any other ethnic groups. You're basically right about the other stuff. Most people look at the price tag and that is the sole deciding factor.
Yes, it was a generalization.I grew up in South America, and while I don't disagree that most of them have compassion, they are definitely concerned with feeding their family as much as or more than making sure an animal has certain exact conditions to be raised. They will raise their animal the best they can with what they have, and their family will eat. Also, one person's idea of what is or is not humane differs from another's. I believe it to be perfectly humane to keep my dogs outside, some people do not.
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Old 12/17/05, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaberryM
What would you think they'd rather live like? In the open air with endless grass and a ring in their nose, or in solitary in a box in a big metal building living on medicines.
The either/or fallacy? Hmmm... neither is acceptable to me. Neither of those two choices is humane, imo. That is why I raise my own pigs.

Paula, sometimes I don't know how to take your posts. For someone with the knowledge and experience you have, at timesyou come across harshly. Is it just the way your writing sounds or are you trying to be harsh of other's perspectives? My viewpoint is also valid. It's a big world. Lots of room for good points. Anthropomorphism? About what? My sole objection was the ringing which you say you don't do.
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  #14  
Old 12/17/05, 10:39 AM
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I'm sorry, you're right about the tone of my post. I do realize that I do that and have been working on it (for several years if you read many of my old posts LOL.)
I just get so frustrated by people's opinions about what animals should and shouldn't eat. Lots of times it seems the opinion is formed without much consideration of the true nature of the beast in question, but based on what would be acceptable/distasteful for a human to consume. When such an opinion is strongly stated it influences others who might not have had a chance to learn or decide differently. To me it's a slippery slope... with PETArd types at the bottom. Ugh.
Our pigs don't have rings only because they haven't caused a problem. If they were making furrows in our pastures they would get rings real quick. I've actually been surprised they haven't rooted worse, because they're Tamworths. DH says it's because they have plenty of space.
Sorry again...
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  #15  
Old 12/18/05, 06:48 AM
 
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I've noticed that they only root when natural feedstuffs are low in a given area or the rooting is very isolated. They'll go straight for the grass and eat it without tearing it up. We keep ours in a large paddock that we wanted to be cleaned up. When we start putting them in the larger field we'll separate into good size runs and let them do what they will; it's cheaper, easier, and more effective than bush hoging and tilling. I don't really see why ringing would be too awful but we don't ring ours because it seems to be completely unneccisary.

--usband o' G
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  #16  
Old 12/18/05, 07:20 AM
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you're right Paula it can be a slippery slope an I'm always trying not to slide down myself.
I raise wild pigs and they will root to China regardless of what feed is available. In fact I use them to till up the garden every year. I can move a few combo panels around to places where the nutgrass is so thick that a pick won't go in and within a week there is nothing but dirt there. During the FL hurricanes last year one of my pig yards was destroyed and the little creeps tore up all of my landscaping around the house -twice

The article does show someone using all his resources and that shouldn't be knocked.
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