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  #1  
Old 12/30/12, 08:46 PM
 
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LGD crosses (breeding)

Ok. I know that alot of folks use LGDxLGD crosses generally some GPx?? breeding.
However I come from field trial German Shorthairs and Pointers and even though I have seen (and owned) a few nice "drops" it is not really viewed as a good thing. besides the issues of papers and pedigree you really never know which cheracteristics of a given breed will show up in a cross.

But i see folks cross breeding LGDs almost as often as you see them doing purebred breedings.

Now, My question is this...... As long as you stick with working LGDs is it more or less possible to cross any breeds of LGD and expect to get good results? Are there some crosses that folks tend to stay away from? Are some better than others?

The reason I ask is we currently have 2 male LGDs 3/4 sarplaninac X 1/4GP, and I am negotiating a deal on a pair of GPxAnatolian pups for our other farm. Locally true working LGDs are kinda hard to come by and at a later date I would consider breeding one of my SarpxGPs to one of the GPxAnatolians for replacement stock. Or am I better off to just run these dogs and replace them with bought dogs when the time comes?

Hopefully this makes sense

Thanks
Jim

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  #2  
Old 12/30/12, 11:45 PM
 
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If the dogs do the same job the same way, you rarely have any more wasteage in a crossbreed litter than a purebred. For example you'll get just as many good wolfing hounds from crossing a top notch July & a hard Croghan as you will pure breeding either. You start getting waste when you cross different styles of dog but don't want one of the styles, say a pointer to springer but wanting a rock solid point. But a lot of that is personal preference too. Like crossing an open jagdterrier to a silent patterdale, if you don't give rat's butt either way you'll get dogs that use their voice to various degrees, butt most will put fur at the end of the run & if they can they'll kill it for you.

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  #3  
Old 01/10/13, 12:36 AM
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We are fairly new to the LGD breeds. We have one dog that's a Great Pyrenese mixed with an Anatolian Sheperd. He is such a great dog, that he has trained our Rottie how to work. We have another Great Pyrenese but she is mixed with Komodore & though she's a bit young, she knows her job too. She is much smaller than the other LGD.

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  #4  
Old 01/10/13, 07:42 AM
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LGD/LGD crosses are usually fine. The only think you need to watch for is crossing only dogs that have similar guarding styles. For example, Central Asian Shepherd dogs don't really bond with stock.....they are more of a perimeter guard type. Crossing that with a Pyr might result in some odd guarding behavior. But crossing ASD with Pyr is fine. Many people try crossing to produce a certain type....such as shorter coats of the ASD, less barking like the ASD but gentler disposition of the pyr but genetics don't really work that way. You will get a mix of everything.

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  #5  
Old 01/10/13, 08:37 AM
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I think the reason they cross Anatolians and Pyrs might be that there just aren't very many ASD in my area. I saw a CL ad recently, where a guy was selling Bernese Mountain Dog/Pyr crosses for $500! I didn't sell my Anatolians (purebred) for that much! Guess I am behind the times.

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Old 01/10/13, 08:44 AM
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sadly, "designer breeds" AKA mutts seem to sell just as good or in many cases BETTER than purebred of either parent! I know there are very few ASDs in my area too, I had to "import" them from Missouri. I am glad I did...they handle the South Carolina summers much better than the heavy coated Pyrs. I am not sure why more farmers around here don't use them.

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  #7  
Old 01/11/13, 12:45 PM
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My pup is a cross, and I got her partly because I couldn't afford 'purebred'......... ASD, for instance, I really like this breed, BUT, 'locally' ( with in 100 miles one way) purebred run 1500.00 for 'NON'breeding dogs...... IF, I decided to breed, it would be 2500 .......... Sorry, I won't agree or pay that .......... Purebred, certified and papered every way to Sunday means less than squat to me, I just want a healthy working dog, which I have now )

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  #8  
Old 01/12/13, 11:53 AM
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Very very useful thread

One question though, why no one mentioned Boerboel?

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  #9  
Old 01/12/13, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbadosSheep View Post
The only think you need to watch for is crossing only dogs that have similar guarding styles.
And Pyrs guard by barking. This can be a huge turn off for some people.

I've never met anyone who says "Gee, I sure am sorry I'm stuck with half this litter of purebred pups I can't even give away - I wish I'd bred some mutts instead."
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  #10  
Old 01/12/13, 12:24 PM
 
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As long as the crosses are from real working lines and work, there's little reason to sell them cheap, but to overprice them is ridiculous. People who do overprice dogs they claim are real working animals are full of shyt and I avoid them. But many people breed anything and everything for money these days.
My LGD mix was $400, guy has a farm where they work, but he's also just breeding for more money. Pups were thin, definitely underfed, worse yet, other's defended him, saying it was normal and common. Common doesn't make it acceptable and no animal should you be able to feel all spine tips and rips through thick fur w/o even adding pressure.
But whatever, she's healthy and fit now that I have her and is doing a fair job for a pup. Hot fence combined with a LGD dog, my problem was solved.


Boerboel is a rare dog and a mastiff, I wouldn't want to take on that type of dog. Might work for some, but I couldn't keep one.
It's tendency to attack rather than warn can be a liability, it's also a South African dog, haven't heard of them much here at all.

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  #11  
Old 01/14/13, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by secuono View Post
Boerboel is a rare dog and a mastiff, I wouldn't want to take on that type of dog. Might work for some, but I couldn't keep one.
It's tendency to attack rather than warn can be a liability, it's also a South African dog, haven't heard of them much here at all.
Is there a difference in obedience between GP/ASD/Mix compared to Boerboel? I hear that ASD/ASDMix could be very independent to the extent to choose to decide itself and stick to it.
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  #12  
Old 01/14/13, 06:45 PM
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I search for ASD/GP sale and I don't find much in Oregon. But if I look up Petfinder.com there are several for adoption (mostly without papers/rescued). I am confused. I wish to find someone who raises ASD/GP in Oregon in their farm with live stock etc and breeds sells them too

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  #13  
Old 01/14/13, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tracerracer View Post
My pup is a cross, and I got her partly because I couldn't afford 'purebred'......... ASD, for instance, I really like this breed, BUT, 'locally' ( with in 100 miles one way) purebred run 1500.00 for 'NON'breeding dogs...... IF, I decided to breed, it would be 2500 .......... Sorry, I won't agree or pay that .......... Purebred, certified and papered every way to Sunday means less than squat to me, I just want a healthy working dog, which I have now )
That is pretty bad. I sold my pups for $250, but they weren't registered. They made some good dogs, though. I came on here with puppies and got beat to death with people wanting OFA certified and Xrays. Sorry, people, my male is 6 years old now, and his hips and eyes are fine. I sold my puppies elsewhere.

By the time you have a litter of puppies @ 10+, you have some serious money in worming, shots, and FOOD! I just bought another female. I've got $600 in her at nine weeks old. She looks like a good 'un, though. I'm happy.

I had Pyrs before I found Anatolians. They LOVE to bark! If my Anatolian barks, I'm looking to see what's wrong. I also don't miss grooming that heavy Pyr coat. Either breed wants to guard 200 acres, more or less. We have 200 acres, so it works out.

My male is a flock dog. He sticks tight to the flock. I'm hoping this new pup can become the perimeter dog, with Zeus as back-up.
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  #14  
Old 01/14/13, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by sugumarg View Post
Is there a difference in obedience between GP/ASD/Mix compared to Boerboel? I hear that ASD/ASDMix could be very independent to the extent to choose to decide itself and stick to it.
I'm not familiar with Boerboel. I will say that I've heard people saying that their Pyr or ADS won't come when called.

My dogs come EVERY time I call them. Why? Because, once they come to me, they know they will get scratches and petting. I socialize my dogs. I can't afford to lose the farm because some visitor got bitten.

So LOVE your dog, no matter what breed you get. I like to say that Anatolians can resist anything but love. They will guard just as well as a dog that's feral. I've seen some of those poor dogs, matted and afraid of people. Such a shame.
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Old 01/15/13, 09:45 AM
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I agree with you Judy. It is a shame when folks don't socialize these dogs. My dogs ADORE me and come running when I enter the pasture. right now they are in with two dexter cattle. the dogs love the cattle and are always with them. Yesterday I entered the pasture to put hay in the goat's hay rack. I alway carry a large stick because the Dexter bull is not trustworthy to be around. As I started unloading hay, the bull started getting close to me. The dogs both positioned themselves between me and the bull and growled at him. As much as they love that bull, they love me more and wanted to protect me from him. I have spent a lot of time loving on those two dogs and it shows. They are wonderful guardians and wonderful dogs.

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  #16  
Old 01/15/13, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by sugumarg View Post
Very very useful thread

One question though, why no one mentioned Boerboel?
A Boerboel is not a Livestock guardian breed. Nothing would be gained by mixing it.
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Old 01/15/13, 06:07 PM
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Well, I've learned from experience that most any dog can be trained to do whatever you want it to do. I mostly keep with service-type dogs (shepherds and labs). Even "mixed" they have baby-sat my day-old goat kids.

At this time I have a full blood chocolate lab who lets me know if anything unusual occurs near our 6 acres. The entire goat herd learned to run "toward" the barking dog from a "mixed" shepherd/lab/wolf dog that has intimidated everything around and baby-sat while does were out grazing.

This year I'm getting a full blood German shepherd and a full blood anatolian shepherd(both females) as I want the anatolian to live/guard goats and the GS to be more around myself & David. Our Lab will continue to roam, hunt and alert us to whatever. [Yesterday this lab brought a squirrel into the house. OMG was he beaming with pride. He had been stalking squirrels for quite awhile and I never thought he would ever catch one; but he did. It is now buried next to the fig tree for "curing". ]

So pure blood or mixed, dogs are pretty much what their owners train them to be. So are goats. (My goats walk slowly beside me when I'm going up a hill and let me lean on them if need be...especially Sir Alginon my 250 lb buck.)

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  #18  
Old 01/15/13, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by motdaugrnds View Post
Well, I've learned from experience that most any dog can be trained to do whatever you want it to do.
You need more experience. While you can, at a stretch, train most any dog to perform a behavior they are physically capable of doing, it will be MUCH easier and the dog will enjoy it more if he has been bred to do a particular job. For example, maybe you could train a pointer to herd sheep, but you'll have much better luck using a Border Collie. And I'm sure you could train a Border Collie to point, but why not let the Pointer do it, since it's strongly instinctive for him?

Likewise, you could try to train a wolfdog to guard livestock, but you'll have much better luck using a Pyr or Anatolian. Everything is so much easier and more effective when you choose your breed based on what you want him to do.

Quote:
This year I'm getting a full blood German shepherd and a full blood anatolian shepherd(both females) as I want the anatolian to live/guard goats and the GS to be more around myself & David.
Why two females? They will probably fight when they're mature--both breeds are known for same-sex aggression. While you can *manage* same-sex aggression if you are diligent, you can't really "train" it out. So if you insist on two females, best make sure to keep them separated.

Quote:
So pure blood or mixed, dogs are pretty much what their owners train them to be.
That would be nice if only it were true. Are you one of those folks who believe Pit Bulls won't fight with other dogs if you raise them right?

By the way, the correct terminology for dogs is "purebred" not "full blood".
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Old 01/16/13, 09:35 AM
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Well, I've learned from experience that most any dog can be trained to do whatever you want it to do. I mostly keep with service-type dogs (shepherds and labs). Even "mixed" they have baby-sat my day-old goat kids.
LGD breeds are not like regular dogs. They have thousands of years of thinking for themselves and not looking to humans for direction so they don't see the learn things like most dogs do. Sure, they can learn some things and will obey some commands, but not like you are used to. Labs and Shepherds have a huge desire to please us humans....LGDs don't.
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Old 01/16/13, 09:47 AM
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Yes, my experience has centered around German Shepherds, labs and mixed shepherd breeds; so I can certainly understand where I could be misguided as to the training of other breeds. I still stand behind what I believe to be a generalfact, i.e. a dog is the way it is because of its training or lack of training no matter what the breed.

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