Neuter the LGD's? - Homesteading Today
Homesteading Today

Go Back   Homesteading Today > Livestock Forums > Guard Animals

Guard Animals Guarding the homestead


Like Tree23Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 10/20/12, 05:09 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central KY
Posts: 35
Neuter the LGD's?

Got two male LGD Pyr dogs that are about 6 months old and I've got them in with 3 sheep around the same age. They're good at guarding, but lately they like to chase after the sheep and try to mate with them.

The ram is a bit of a pushover and has rammed the dogs, but the dogs think he's playing around and just kind of brush it off. I'm thinking it's time to neuter the dogs......

__________________

-Mike

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10/20/12, 07:46 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,699

I wouldn't neuter and LGD at 6mo. And, actually, I just wouldn't neuter an LGD at all.
I have spayed the girls, but always feel guilty about it because it messes up their hips if you do it too early.
And neutering won't stop this behavior anyway. It is a dominance issue. You just have to correct them over and over.

__________________

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10/20/12, 08:32 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central KY
Posts: 35

Any good pointers on how to stop it?

__________________

-Mike

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10/20/12, 10:43 PM
Stonybrook's Avatar  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 691

Why not neuter?

harvestmoonfarm likes this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10/20/12, 11:05 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: front range CO
Posts: 210

I know with the akbash breed fixing them has no efect on their garding ability weather male of female. It sounds like you need to change somthing.snip snip...

harvestmoonfarm likes this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10/20/12, 11:10 PM
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: South East corner of NM
Posts: 1,207

This post made me laugh out loud. I was on the way to town one pretty Spring morning and a large white Great Pyranise (sp. sorry) stopped to "water" a sign post then continued across the road, followed by his entire flock of sheep! A friend of mine had a female cowdog in heat not far from where they were crossing the road. I would have loved to see her face when that Romeo and his "crew" showed up. Her female was in a locked and covered kennel, as she didn't want pups at the time. Just wondering, does it change the way the dog guards his flock if he is fixed?

Squeaky McMurdo likes this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10/20/12, 11:41 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Michigan's thumb
Posts: 14,008

Dogs shouldn't be fixed until they have finished their long bone growth and have gone into their broadening growth. For tiny dogs this may mean nine months of age. For giant dogs this may mean waiting until they are 2 1/2 or 3 years old. If you neuter early their bodies do not kick in the adolescent hormones and instead of filling out, they simply get taller. For a heavy breed with known hip problems, this is not a good idea. Not everyone agrees with this and it is controversial. Some people say that early neutering doesn't allow the dog to mentally mature, which you want with a working dog.

Neutering will help with roaming and looking for romance.

__________________
Nothing is as strong as gentleness, nothing so gentle as real strength - St. Francis de Sales
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10/21/12, 01:56 PM
WV Farm girl's Avatar  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 349

I vote with neutering. Without the hormone issue telling them to mate they will focus better on the job at hand. People that I have talked to with LGDs have always recommended it.
Talk to a vet if you are concerned with an age or growth issue. I think it is better to do it early before too many bad habits are established like roaming. I worked with vets and rescues for years and have never heard of anyone recommending to wait until they are years old. Earlier is usually better. Just MHO.

__________________

Raising Purebred Dorper Sheep
Dorper Rams Available

2013- $275 Earned in Amazon gift cards and Cash
http://www.swagbucks.com/refer/Shannon1975

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10/21/12, 02:43 PM
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 290

I have no experience with neutering of not neutering LGDs, all of ours are left intact. I will say that I will Never neuter a dog befor 12-18mos. I have seen too many long lean bird dogs that never truely develope any mass because their hormones were snuffed out, before they told the body to widen or bulk up.
Same with horses......
Ever seen a gelding you couldnt distinguish from a mare because it was gelded at that 1yr date everyone is so wound up about?

I would wait to neuter and take some time to train.....

On a side note, I am dealing with the same thing (7mo old GP/sarp that is chasing ewes)...... It is amazing how much effect a good old fasion correction from "the boss" has on most dogs.
Jim

Fowler, mekasmom and Grazer like this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10/21/12, 03:25 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 306

Do I understand you correctly that you want to neuter them because they are mounting your sheep?
Mounting beheviour doesn't have to do anything with them actually wanting to mate. Dogs mount each other as one of the ways to establish the pack order. Since your boys are comming of age and they see sheep as their pack members, that would be natural for them to start figuring out their place in your flock. Neutered dogs do it as well.
At 6 months they are too young to be trusted with livestock without supervision and they most likely need some training and your intervention to help them esteblish themselves and teach them manners around sheep. Neutering will not do it.

On other hand neutering dogs that will not be bred is a good practice. However, early neutering is very bad for growing animals and there are more and more veterinary studies that indicate relationship between hip displasia and cancers in large dogs and early neuters. The fact that rescues and vets still push for early neuters has nothing to do with animals health. It is about money and policies on dealing with unwanted pets. If pets are spayed early, less screaning needs to be done for potential owners. So, if you want to neuter them, wait at least untill they are 18m. old and done growing.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10/21/12, 03:47 PM
thaiblue12's Avatar
Enabler!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: CO
Posts: 3,865

I had my one LGD done at 8 months old, right as he hit sexual maturity, and he is not lean or lanky, he is almost as wide as he is tall, no he is not fat

Unless the dog is a very good example of the breed, registered, passed hip checks etc there is no good reason to leave them intact. I am not dealing with a dog whose mind is on breeding rather then the goats, having them set up by predators with a female in heat, having the neighbor's mutt get "knocked up" and dealing with mutt puppies- or coydog puppies, fence breeches, testicular cancer and etc. Not to mention some intact males can cop attitudes even toward their humans and that woud be a liability here with people coming to buy goats.

Talk to your vet about when would be a good time to have them fixed. If he recommends a year and a half old then make sure your fence is excellent. You may also have to separate them as they become more sexually mature as they may fight with each other, they may not but it is a possibility.

__________________

Arguing with an idiot is like running in a circle, you get nowhere fast

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10/22/12, 02:07 PM
ozark_jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,133

I have done all my LGDs around a year. Not one has had any problems bulking up. It didn't change their gurding habits either, but it does curb the desire to roam when neighborhood dogs are in heat.

Kits&Kids and harvestmoonfarm like this.
__________________

Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Nubians & Lamanchas
www.ozarkjewels.net

"Remember, no man is a failure, who has friends" -Clarence

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10/24/12, 10:29 AM
Fowler's Avatar
Poo Fairy
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas Angel
Posts: 6,483

I'm a big fan of neutering, but it worries me with my LGD's.

__________________
"If you tickle the earth with a hoe she laughs with a harvest."
- Douglas William Jerrold

Real is Beautiful -Sherry in Maine

I am 47
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10/24/12, 11:30 AM
TenBusyBees's Avatar  
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 586

We neutered both our pyrs right at year old. Everyone we had talked to said wait until they were two and we would have better guard dogs. We couldn't wait that long; they would have killed each other. It wasn't until later we found out that having two male pyrs is not ideal or so "they" say. Once we got them snipped our boys are great.... they have filled out nicely, they take their responsibilities seriously and work well as a team, they don't tend to wander as much as they used to, and really they are just great all around dogs.

I would postpone neutering as long as possible. Also something else to consider when you do have it done make sure vet is familiar with pyrs they tend to not be able to handle anaesthesia as well.... something about their large size and slow metabolism.

__________________

~TBB

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10/25/12, 08:43 AM
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 290

Just because I happened to be at the vet yesterday for an unrelated issue, I asked the vet what they would charge to cut my Sarp/GP LGDs, 7mo roughly 80lbs apiece.... she said for a dog that big Id be looking at $190 apiece! holy cow!

I guess the whole world is bought and sold by the pound..

I was floored.

Jim

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10/25/12, 06:33 PM
ozark_jewels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,133

I am very lucky in my vet. For my LGDs, I'm looking at $60-$70 for a spay and $30-$40 for a nueter. At least, those were the prices a couple years ago. I'll be getting a male and a female done here real soon.
I'm taking my little crossbred who knows what in on Monday to be spayed. About $30 for her.

__________________

Emily Dixon
Ozark Jewels
Nubians & Lamanchas
www.ozarkjewels.net

"Remember, no man is a failure, who has friends" -Clarence

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11/17/12, 08:37 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,309

Both our boys mount each other from time to time. One is fixed the other is not.
As someone already said, it's a dominance issue.

__________________

Bob and Nancy Dickey
Laughing Stock Boer Goats
"Seriously Great Bloodlines"
and the meat goes on....
Near Seattle

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11/18/12, 01:51 PM
BoldViolet's Avatar  
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPiantedosi View Post
I guess the whole world is bought and sold by the pound..
The bigger the animal, the more anesthesia is needed.
__________________
Ares Electronic Cigarettes - 15% off your first order with coupon code HOMESTEADING at checkout
*
Knights and Dreams Farm
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11/19/12, 06:05 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Four Corners, Colorado
Posts: 505

I highly recommend that you join the LGD list @yahoo.com There are several very good breeders/trainers that give well backed up advice. One of the sites is Bountiful farm.com. I think you'll find that your six month old pups should not be with the stock, without you there, until they are much older. It is totally common for them to "play" with their stock, as youngsters, and need to be reprimanded for it. In their native countries, the older dogs would do that. Yes, they should be neutered, but that won't solve the problem you are having. Lots of great stories and suggestions on the list.

peteyfoozer likes this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11/20/12, 01:21 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 78

We neuter and spay all of our except for one female and one male that we breed. We do it as soon as they are old enough. I have never noticed any difference in guarding ability and I don't have to worry about what happens when the female comes in heat or when the neighbors dogs come in heat.

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:59 PM.