Great Pyrenees

HDRider · #1 07/02/12, 08:30 AM

How many of you have Great Pyrenees? Can you talk about the breed – Pros & Cons.

Did you consider Anatolian Shepherd or Maremmas? What made you go one way or another?

I see folks talk about crosses between Great Pyrenees & Anatolian Shepherd. Does anyone have that?

Can anyone discuss the pros and cons of these LGDs? Climate differences, personality differences, anything that can help a person understand all the differences of these breeds.

Thanks

BarbadosSheep · #2 07/02/12, 08:39 AM

when I was looking for a LGD breed, I thought about Pyrs but decided on Anatolian for several reasons. I like the shorter summer coat of the ASDs. Mine have shed out to a coat similar to what you'd see on a Labrador. winter coat is very thick, warm and weather-proof though. I like the guarding style of ASDs better. Pyrs guard by barking. A lot. They bark to let any predators that might be in the area that they are on guard and to not bother coming around. So if you are a light sleeper or have neighbors close by, I'd think twice about a pyr. They are known for being very vocal, especially at night. Pyrs tend to be a little easier going towards humans...ASDs are more suspicious and non trusting of strangers but there are exceptions to this rule. My males were both very well socialized though and are fine with strangers if I am there too. A lot of people cross Pyrs with ASDs trying to get the best of both breeds but it's not possible to guarantee you are getting the best. You could just as easily end up with the worst of both breeds.

DaniR1968 · #3 07/02/12, 10:30 AM

I have a GP mix. Not sure what she is mixed with but she acts like a GP. I did a lot of research before deciding that I should go with the easiest of the LGDs. This is my first and I worried I stood a better chance of messing up with a harder dog.

She's only 7 months so hasn't fully come into her own. We only have 2 acres and she has access to most of it with the exception of the front which is only fenced with hotwire for when the horses are allowed out there. She is in the back yard during the day when it's hot. Starting in the evening she is in the pasture or goat pen or even in the chicken yard. She does that on her own. We have several acres of woods behind us with coyote and racoons. I have lost countless hens to them. Even after refencing I was still loosing hens. She watches that back fence and barks letting the predators know she is on the job. I have only lost one pullet to a raccoon or something that came over the fence since she has been here. I have lost some banty chicks to hawks but that's not her fault.

My other dogs are doberman. Compared to them, she has been a piece of cake to train. They want to please and are easy to teach obedience but have a high prey drive and have never been completely trustworthy around the chickens or my small goats. It took very little to get her to leave the chicks and chickens alone. The goats are small but the one doe put her in her place pretty quick.

No real cons unless being too friendly with strangers is a con. In a year or two I want to get another LGD for her to train. I am really lusting after a Kangal! Not sure one would be happy with such a small property.

That said, I think when picking a LGD you need to take into consideration your set up and needs. If you don't have a lot of dog experience, a GP would be the dog to start with and have a mentor.

Otter · #4 07/02/12, 11:10 AM

I don't own one, and from my experiences with Pyrs, I never will. Actually, I am at the point where if one is on my property, it is a shoot-on-sight situation, and I really love dogs.
The owner's fence doesn't keep them home and mine doesn't keep them out (4' woven wire) I have lost 3 cats and had another attacked, and my dog attacked, on separate occasions, all right by my house, by roaming Pyrs. This wasn't one place and one Pyr, or even dogs from one breeder - this was 5 different occasions, some happened in different states.

Your neighbors will not love you. The barking is relentless and unending. Think hard before you do that to someone.

However, Anatolians I have met, I have liked. I know several people, some who have more land and stock then i could dream of, who have switched from Pyrs to Anatolians and will now never own another Pyr.

A close neighbor has an Anatolian - if I ever hear that dog bark, it is because something is wrong and needs attention. She has been loose once - her puppies chased a rabbit through the woven wire (they were pretty young) and she came after them. Off her own territory, she was polite and non-threatening. I'd hate to think what would happen if my dogs went to her place, but when she came to mine after her pups, she was a perfect lady.

I met a lot of Pyrs and they made me hate, like really hate, all LGDs. Then I met a bunch of Anatolians and if we ever decide to increase our goat herd we'll probably get one.

Crosses of any 2 breeds are a toss up with no guarantees.

wendle · #5 07/02/12, 12:55 PM

I have two Pyr/Anatolian crosses. One is about 8 years old and has been the best lgd I've ever had. I also have a young female in training. Both are very good with my call ducks, border collies and tolerate the farm cats. My adult lgd is also good around other dogs. He does not tolerate dogs harassing the sheep, but has never injured a dog. He paws, mouths and chases, but seems to have a very soft bite, or very good inhibition. He does an outstanding job keeping the sheep safe. I think it depends quite a bit on how they are raised and managed. I handle my dogs a lot, and have people visit my farm regularly, so it's so important that they are good with people and their dogs. Some lgds have been on the breed ban lists and I think it's important for those of us utilizing them in our operations to make them public friendly. If you have close neighbors the barking could be a problem. Personally I don't mind it as they have such a quiet bark, not sharp like some, or like a hound either. You will have good and bad breeders and temperaments just like any breed of dog. Both my lgds are altered, and that could make a difference on their attitudes as well.
Here's my dog Zeus 3/4 Pyr/1/4 Anatolian. He is shorter haired, but some of his littermates were pretty hairy.

LisaInN.Idaho · #6 07/02/12, 03:55 PM

I have one Pyr now and have had three in the past. One was a horse-chasing, chicken killer who we ultimately rehomed to a home with kids but no other animals.
All three of my Pyrs have been magnificent with kids and people. The one I have now, Guinness, I wish I'd named Aslan because he is truly an Aslan type of presence. He is one of the kindest and gentlest dogs I've ever known. He does have a certain reserve and avoids visitors to our place, but when we take him anywhere, he sits patiently and calmly if children hug him or yappy little dogs pester him. I trust him more than any other dog I've ever had or known.
We live in an extremely rural area with no neighbors to bother and with lots of predators but my Pyrs have never barked all night, every night. They bark when alerted and then stop. Which is exactly what they are supposed to do. Since we've had them, the predators (wolves, grizzlies, cougar, etc) steer very clear of our place.
We did make sure we got our Pyrs from a very reputable breeder in canada who breeds for temperament and good health from good working lines and we did pay a good amount for them. We did not have to train our Pyrs at all to guard. It was instinctive. We did do basic obedience commands with them.

We don't keep sheep or goats anymore and Guinness is getting up there in age. We may just get another for a pet since we've had such good experiences with the breed and we've really loved ours.

HDRider · #7 07/02/12, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LisaInN.Idaho

I have one Pyr now and have had three in the past. One was a horse-chasing, chicken killer who we ultimately rehomed to a home with kids but no other animals.
All three of my Pyrs have been magnificent with kids and people. The one I have now, Guinness, I wish I'd named Aslan because he is truly an Aslan type of presence. He is one of the kindest and gentlest dogs I've ever known. He does have a certain reserve and avoids visitors to our place, but when we take him anywhere, he sits patiently and calmly if children hug him or yappy little dogs pester him. I trust him more than any other dog I've ever had or known.
We live in an extremely rural area with no neighbors to bother and with lots of predators but my Pyrs have never barked all night, every night. They bark when alerted and then stop. Which is exactly what they are supposed to do. Since we've had them, the predators (wolves, grizzlies, cougar, etc) steer very clear of our place.
We did make sure we got our Pyrs from a very reputable breeder in canada who breeds for temperament and good health from good working lines and we did pay a good amount for them. We did not have to train our Pyrs at all to guard. It was instinctive. We did do basic obedience commands with them.

We don't keep sheep or goats anymore and Guinness is getting up there in age. We may just get another for a pet since we've had such good experiences with the breed and we've really loved ours.

Sounds like a super dog, and your living space sounds pretty special too.

Oregon Julie · #8 07/03/12, 09:58 PM

I went with Anatolians 25 years ago because I didn't want to deal with all of the coat of a Pyr and I have never regretted the decision. I like the guarding style of my ASD and I have never seen them act as if the heat bothered them nor the cold and we get a heck of a lot of snow in the winter time. Given the option of sleeping in a shelter I have seem them sleep in snow dens that they have dug. I don't find they bark unless it is something that needs to be barked at and I can tell by the type of bark they are using how serious a threat it is, at least in their opinion.

HDRider · #9 07/04/12, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon Julie

I went with Anatolians 25 years ago because I didn't want to deal with all of the coat of a Pyr and I have never regretted the decision. I like the guarding style of my ASD and I have never seen them act as if the heat bothered them nor the cold and we get a heck of a lot of snow in the winter time. Given the option of sleeping in a shelter I have seem them sleep in snow dens that they have dug. I don't find they bark unless it is something that needs to be barked at and I can tell by the type of bark they are using how serious a threat it is, at least in their opinion.

I have to say, after reading the replies I am leaning toward the Anatolians.

I worried about the heat & humidity on the PYR. Just don't seem right. Plus, that coat has to be a cockle burr magnet....

Lannie · #10 07/10/12, 01:05 PM

I have two Pyrs right now, a young male and an almost 4-year-old female. Our first (male) had originally been a pet, had a badly set broken leg, and was being thrown away when we found him and gave him a home. He was a barker.

Then we got our female, and with two of them to cover our 15 acre property, he didn't bark so much anymore. The female taught him some things, too, like looking up for predators such as hawks and eagles, and running silently when in pursuit of a four-legged predator. He was just beginning to be a great guardian when he died unexpectedly.

Now we have a young male, 18 months old, who's just coming into his own, and the absolute BEST dog I've ever had. He's a bit shy and spooky toward people, but he's fearless when it comes to guarding. The only time he barks is if he hears or smells something at night, then I know something is wrong. If I come outside after dark, when I SHOULD be in my house minding my own business, he'll bark and come running up to see who the intruder is. I just tell him it's me, and everything is OK, and he goes back to his post. I feel certain that NO ONE, however, will be coming on this property now without me knowing about it before they get through the gate! LOL!

We don't have neighbors, either, so the barking wouldn't be a problem, but my two just don't seem to be barkers. We DID have a problem with them getting through the perimeter fence, but it was the female that was instigating all the escapes, so we put up an electronic fence and she wears a zap collar, which will buzz and beep if she gets within 5 feet of the fence. Don't tell her, but there's a break in the wire somewhere and the fence hasn't been transmitting for the last couple of months, but she doesn't know because she keeps her distance from it. The male will run right up to it, but he's too big to get through it now, so they both stay home, which is just how I like it.

The heat doesn't bother them too much, but this summer we're having higher than normal humidity, and that does bother them. They spend the heat of the day in deep shade in some of the wild plum thickets on the property, and they're mostly active at night. Normally, our summer temps are in the 90s and 100s, but as long as the humidity is reasonable, their coats aren't too much. They don't get burrs in them much, either. It's rare that I have to pull a burr out of one of them, and we have burdock all over the place here. They get horribly muddy after a rain, but within a few hours, they're clean again.

The female has never, EVER, bothered any of our animals, and the young dog only occasionally chases a chicken now. I did have a problem with that when we first got him, but he's much better now. He just follows now, rather than rolling them, slobbering all over them, and pulling out half their feathers. We also have cats, and neither one of them has ever bothered the cats. In fact, the younger dog tried to play with one once (nicely, I was watching) and got a bloody nose for his trouble. He play-bows and yips at the cats when he sees them, but if the cat makes any move at all, he beats feet to a safe distance! He does like to play with the cows and horses, but only one horse will deign to play with him. They can go for hours, it's hysterical. The cows shake their heads and him and let him know they don't want to play, but if there's a calf, then it's constant play-time again. He's got a great personality and I just love him to death.

I biased because I've only ever had Pyrs, but I love them. They do an excellent job of keeping the coyotes and foxes off the property and we haven't lost a single chicken or guinea to a predator since we got the dogs. I just wish they'd do something about the skunks and rabbits. They don't see them as predators, so they don't chase them off. Meanwhile, the skunks keep eating my guineas' eggs and spraying my stooopid house dogs, and the rabbits are eating my garden.

Maybe one of these days I'll get them to understand they should CHASE the skunks and bunnies, and then everything will be perfect.

~Lannie

CageFreeFamily · #11 07/29/12, 06:19 PM

We have 240 acres of partially forested mountain land in northern New Mexico and have had Pyrs free roaming the property with our animals for years. We have never lost a single livestock animal to predators. They are extremely loyal, exceedingly gentle with our children and animals, and hardy in both our deep winters (-32 last winter) and hot summers (98 with full high elevation sun). I would never be without them. I have found that barking is temperment related. My best Pyr never uttered an unnecessary bark, my Pyr/Anatolian cross barkes far more warnings (we always know when the coyotes are in scent range) and my female Pyr just barked incessantly at night.

They definitely work better in pairs especially in a location like ours where in addition to the nuisance predators like skunks, coons, etc. we have mountain lions and bears.

Our Pyrs also keep our compost piles safe from the crows, magpies and bears... our chicks safe from the hawks, owls and eagles, and our gardens safe from the chipmunks and rabbits.

I honestly don't think we could homestead out here without our Pyrs. Good instinct from a working bloodline is critical though. They are headstrong and meant to work from instinct, not training. I trust them implicitly, and wouldn't allow my kids into the forest without the knowledge that there is a Pyr following them.

mekasmom · #12 07/29/12, 07:19 PM

GPs are nice dogs. We have had about 6 of them over the years. They are all sweet dogs, gentle with all your family and your animals. They do bark more than other LGD breeds, especially at night. Their personalities cannot be beat by other LGDs in my opinion. They are a softer dog than some of the other LGD breeds, but very loyal, work hard, and are just wonderful LGDs and pets.
The only downside to GPs are:
digging-- they dig DEEP holes all over
barking-- they do bark almost all night
coat-- the coat needs a lot of care to prevent mats plus they shed

Personally, I don't mind the barking or the digging so much. But the coat can be an issue if you worry about your dog. You don't want the coat all matted because they get hotspots under it, and can get fleas. We had ours shaved at least once a year. I've seen many, many GP with heavy, matted coats, but that really bothers me. I want to be kind to my pets. And I couldn't leave mine like that.
A final thought is that the GP I have seen don't live that long. A lifespan of 8yrs is not uncommon. I know the web says they live more, but most I have seen don't live past 8-10.

Batt · #13 07/30/12, 09:12 AM

See my post here:doing-some-research-before-purchasing-lgd.html No need to retype it.

CJBegins · #14 07/30/12, 01:02 PM

I have a GP/anatolian female. She is 2.5 years old and has been wonderful. We have had her 6 months and in that 6 months we no longer have problems with skunks, raccoons, or opposums. The coyotes have always been very vocal here and there are many, they don't dare come close. The buzzard and hawks get chased away even.

She watches after the goats and chickens passionately. She isn't so fond of the horses and doesn't like it if they are in the yard. The cows do not like the big white dog and chase her constantly but she keeps a wide berth.

She doesn't know a strange person. Probably her only drawback or maybe not. I have never owned a people aggressive dog so I think that would make me really nervous.

Her coat requires lots of brushing and I don't own a set of clippers that will cut it so I just brush away. She is an incredibly sweet and dedicated animal. She does bark a lot, out where I live that is what I need. The closest neighbor is a mile away. Her bark is a muffled bark, not like the darn basset hound.

She was given to us because she wouldn't stay within the pasture the previous owner had which looked to be about a 3 acre pasture. That wasn't a large enough area for her. Out her she has about 300 acres to cover and not bother a person.

The only thing she does that I really don't like is she kills fawns. I just found my 3 one this morning. She sure is cutting down on the deer crop out here.

mekasmom · #15 07/30/12, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJBegins

I have a GP/anatolian female.

I like that mix better than either of the breeds in a purebred.

Fowler · #16 07/31/12, 09:51 AM

I love my maremmas, they dont bark all night like GP's and they dont leave the flock to wonder off.

BarbadosSheep · #17 07/31/12, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekasmom

I like that mix better than either of the breeds in a purebred.

the only problem with a mix is you may not get the best of both breeds but the worst of both breeds. if you could get only the best, Anatolian/ pyr cross would be the best dog! Although I do adore the temperments of my anatolians. They are almost 15 months old now and very sweet.

CageFreeFamily · #18 08/01/12, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarbadosSheep

the only problem with a mix is you may not get the best of both breeds but the worst of both breeds.

I agree. Though I have only had one pyr/anatolian cross, I am not as happy with him as I have been with my pure Pyrs. I won't likely go with a cross in the future, though I am interested in the 3/4 Pyr + 1/4 Anatolian crosses. I would love to see those genetics combined well and stabilized.

Though I love my Pyrs, I have become very interested in Briards and Maremmas. I wish I could find someone running Briards as LGDs. I'm familiar with the breed from my days on the show circuit and prof. training, but I have never witnessed one as a working LGD.

LisaInN.Idaho · #19 08/01/12, 09:36 PM

I must have been extremely lucky with my Pyrs because they don't ever bark all night. They bark when needed and then they stop.

Slongest · #20 10/10/12, 11:45 AM

Okay I'm not sure if I'm asking a question in the right spot but one of Pry had puppies six total two didn't make it 24 hrs after I found mom and puppies and this past weekend something got another one and ate the insides out of it. So I got the remaining three and locked them up in the shop and let mom in a few times a dat but past two days one isn't eating they're almost five weeks old.Help I don't want to lose another.....

mekasmom · #21 10/10/12, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter

The owner's fence doesn't keep them home and mine doesn't keep them out (4' woven wire) I have lost 3 cats and had another attacked, and my dog attacked, on separate occasions, all right by my house, by roaming Pyrs.

It is the owner's fault not the dog's fault. The dog doesn't understand a fenceline. It thinks all the land belongs to them. And they do kill intruders on their land (cats, other dogs). It really is the owner's fault.

For the OP, the hair on GP is really a pain. They have wooly hair that mats easily. They do bark a lot, really a lot, almost constantly at night. They are a softer (safer to humans) dog than many of the other LGD. If you have a lot of strangers coming to your home on a regular basis a GP would be a much better choice than an akbash. GPs are almost always human-safe. Some LGDs are just "harder" breeds that you would not want a lot of strangers coming to your home a lot.

BarbadosSheep · #22 10/10/12, 01:26 PM

I socialized my ASDs a lot when they were little and now they are fine with strangers who come with me into their pasture. Isaac isn't just fine with it, he actually LOVES visitors. They are 17 months old now.

mekasmom · #23 10/10/12, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slongest

So I got the remaining three and locked them up in the shop and let mom in a few times a dat but past two days one isn't eating they're almost five weeks old.Help I don't want to lose another.....

At five weeks, they could be weaned. You just have to spend time teaching and encouraging them to drink milk and to eat soft food.

Slongest · #24 10/11/12, 08:20 AM

I went out after I posted on here and got the pup we just had a newborn baby so we still have baby formula in the house so i mixed some up with baby rice to thicken it up and got a syringe to feed her that way.After doing that twice yesterday about three oz each time she acts much better this morning shes eating off her mom again today..
Thanks for the info if it happens again it's good to know...

anita_fc · #25 10/11/12, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mekasmom

For the OP, the hair on GP is really a pain. <<>> If you have a lot of strangers coming to your home on a regular basis a GP would be a much better choice than an akbash. GPs are almost always human-safe.

I agree with Mekasmom. We also found that Akbash are harder on intruding dogs than were the GPs. Our Pyrs would keep an intruding neighbor dog knocked down, but they never inflicted any damage. Our first Akbash, who was a retired range dog, quickly killed a Labrador that jumped into our pasture. Since we're dog lovers in general, we hated that.

However, when it came down to choosing replacements for our old Pyrs, we went with Akbash this time. For me, the biggest factor was coat, both in terms of our summer heat and in caring for them. Coat care on a working Pyr is what I consider to be a nightmare. I'm used to brushing my dogs regularly, and it just wasn't feasible to do that with the field dogs. Yes, they pick up cockleburs, fox tails, twigs from the trees. Their very long tail and rear end hair tangles something awful.

I am a devoted Pyr lover, but at our ages we are resigned to admiring them from afar. I doubt we will have any more of them after our two old boys pass. One is 10, the other 11.

loli · #26 10/12/12, 07:25 AM

We have 1 pure GP and she is great, loves to catch and eat snakes and lets no dogs on the property, not a barker unless she sees or hears something, 1 pure anatolian she is always with the herd and will stay for days with any newborn kids and 2 gp/anatolian crosses that are good too. Love the GP because she loves the kids, but all 4 of them caused me to put up 2 hot wires, one low for the digger and 1 high for the stupid fence jumpers.

Rockytopsis · #27 10/12/12, 08:00 AM

I have 2 GP's and 5 generations back the sire was a Newfoundlan. They were born in the goat shed, with goats in and out all day.
They are great dogs, true their hair is a problem but I just give them a lion cut in early spring and by October they are set for cold weather.
They are fantastic with the moms and babies.
I don't think mine bark excessive, they do have a "I'm on duty now bark" which can last about 15 minutes then they are done.
They used to allow deer in the pasture but since they have matured I have not seen any and as of yet no other 4 legged critters.

This is Austin my male

And his sister Tammy

Nancy

DaniR1968 · #28 10/12/12, 03:13 PM

slongest, do you have food out for the puppies? They are old enough to be started on soft food. You can either soak dry food until it's soft or use canned food.

Where are you located?

Shawhee · #29 10/15/12, 02:49 PM

I have three Pyrs a male and two females. Mine DO NOT bark all night. They bark when something is around. And as others said they have a softer bark - and different tones. When more than one of my dogs is barking and barks more than once or twice..... Normally I step out the front door and listen... sure enough I can hear coyotes howling. I have other farming neighbors and I can hear their dogs barking and going crazy, I used to think my dogs were off swimming in the pond or running off... Nope they are outside with their goats, but they know when the threat is close enough to warrant barking warnings, if the threat is far off they are not going to join in with the nonsense barking of the neighbor dogs.

I have watched my girls have standoffs with coyotes twice in the last year. My neighbor (who also has a pyr - but she is young) has witnessed them dealing with a coyote on his property. They have never let anything come on my property!! It is something special to watch your dogs work and communicate to take on a predator.

I live in N. Texas, we have mild winters but we can get pretty cold sometimes with ice and snow. We have very hot summers with temps over 100 for weeks at a time. Mine do just fine in the heat.

I have not had issues with their coats either. Once a year I might brush them out, and no they do not look like matted nasty dogs - they look good and I find that stuff doesn't really stick to their fur. But you can tell when they have been down to the pond!! But within and hour or less they are clean looking again.

I have one that is friendly, her sister is a little more standoffish and she has growled at people. They both will bark at people and make them want to stay in their cars. The one will not let strangers wander the property - but if I tell them it is ok then they go back to their jobs, although the people are watched.

I have had an Akbash - She was fine with me and my daughter. She kept predators away but she was NOT fine with my goats!! Which was her job - GONE!! Anatolians can be a little too aggressive with young stock and kids.

I will stay with my Pyrs, I have found that most of the typical complaints just don't happen with mine - I consider myself very lucky!

P.S. - They also guard my chickens from hawks and other predators. Good with cats and my little Chihuahua house dog, and they don't bother the horses or my daughters pet rabbit.

DesertDance · #30 10/20/12, 01:18 PM

So we are looking to purchase acreage but it's too hot here for GP or any long haired dog. We never, NEVER get snow! How would a Jack Russel Terrier do? I know they will chase anything down with ferocity!

Could they be trained to protect the chickens?