Toughest/Scrappiest/GetInThereAndMixItUpDog (besides a pit)

TriWinkle · #1 06/19/12, 12:10 PM

Let me stress again...Besides a pit, what's the scrappiest breed of dog you've ever encountered?

I'm not currently in the market for a dog, but always good to learn more...Not all breeds of dogs are created equal, and certainly not all dogs within the breed, but what has been your experience(s)? My neighbors have a few dogs that would run from their own tail, so critter control isn't their strong suit, heck it isn't even their weak one...They're basically noise makers with little to no backbone...

LGDs are cool, but I kinda wondered if there were any other, more compact, alternatives? I think I've said before I've got my Decker Rat, and I'm pretty happy with him, but I'm always open to learning something new...Maybe something I've overlooked?

I put this in here, because I figured I was talking about a dog's potential to function as a useful member of the farm, for keeping all manner of critters away.

pancho · #2 06/19/12, 12:40 PM

Almost any breed of terrier.
Some of the cutest and softest are also the gamest.

Wildfire_Jewel · #3 06/19/12, 12:53 PM

Corgis!! They aren't going to take on a coyote pack and win unless there are several of them but they do NOT back down from a fight (Or at least the ones I have experience with - other lines may be different)

Next dog that comes to mind like the other poster said - any of the terriers. They seem to all have Napoleon complexes!

JasoninMN · #4 06/19/12, 01:59 PM

Most any dog will be tough and scrappy as long as its winning or at least thinks it winning.

You might want to post your location and types of predators.

wendle · #5 06/19/12, 02:10 PM

It may depend on what the dog is up against. Neither of my Pyr/Anatolians seem like scrappers, but I have yet to see either one back away from a dog that has gone after them. Not sure what they would do in a big fight, they seem pretty docile. Now my border collies act like a little bit more scrappy, but I wouldn't want them messing with coyotes, it just isn't their job.

Their job would be to control the livestock, and at times keep a protective mama cow in control.
Interesting that you mention as long as they think they are winning. I have seen quite a few dogs that don't seem to have a lot of interest in controlling stock unless it turns away first. Some can be so bad that if it turns away first they go in for a cheap bite. It can be pretty obvious at times while training dogs to herd sheep, who can handle themselves and who can't. I'm sure there are similarities in other dog venues as they basically speak the same language. Of course there are those dogs that just go right in and don't have any sense of self preservation. There are some sort of dogs they use around here to hunt coyotes, not sure the breed, but they sure sound like scrappers and resemble some sort of hound dog.

citxmech · #6 06/19/12, 05:32 PM

If you want a not-so-dedicated general purpose farm dog that's not too big, I would check out some American Bulldog breeders. Blasco Family Bulldogs seems to have a good program going. There are a few others around here that have these dogs on their farms, so maybe some of them can weigh-in. I'm also a huge fan of Boerboels if you can find a good breeder near you. If you can find a good one, they are wonderful dogs. The main issue with non-LGDs in a farm role is the higher prey drive may make it hard to keep them off your animals. The Dogo Agentino would have been a top choice, but they're super prey-driven and kinda big. A real Kangal would absolutely do the job but they can be a real handful for the owner who isn't committed to working with a big dog with strong opinions.

TriWinkle · #7 06/19/12, 09:22 PM

Pancho: Good point, but it's tough to find any that aren't show dogs...I don't fancy paying a ton of money for a dog I want to use to fend off critters.

citxmech: I have two American Bulldogs, in addition to the rat, and I do believe that somewhere in all AB lineage there is pit...I like bulldogs, but the rep that comes along with them is a burden I'd rather not bear...plus, I'd prefer to dog a bit more manageable in size...less than 100lbs (yes, I know the Scotts dogs fit the category, but never was a fan of'em)...honestly, closer to 50lbs would work better for me.

Allen W · #8 06/19/12, 10:30 PM

Airedale or Paterdale

JasoninMN · #9 06/20/12, 01:25 AM

Maybe catahoulas, laceys or curs would be what you want.

colemangirly · #10 06/20/12, 01:11 PM

I agree with the terrier thought. I have an airedale that will take on anything. From rabbits to once she took on 5 coyotes all by herself. Anything that isn't already on the farm better STAY off the farm.

Wolf Flower · #11 06/20/12, 03:13 PM

Most any terrier is a scrappy dog ready to mix it up. Some more so than others. There are some lines of Airedale that are used by hunters, those dogs will take on anything with four legs. Airedales also come in all sizes; the standard specifies a medium size dog around 35-40 lb, but I have seen 90+ pound Airedales that weren't fat.

Irish Terriers are also pretty scrappy. I groom one that I have to be careful with--he's okay around other dogs as long as they are in their own cages and not looking at him. But should he catch another dog giving eye contact, it's on--and if I'm not careful, he'll redirect and bite ME.

There are smaller terriers that are also heck on wheels--the German Jagdterrier, Fox Terrier, and some Jack Russells are pretty fiesty. I hear Patterdales are also, but I remember hearing that they have Pit Bull in their ancestry. I could be wrong about that.

YankeeinMarylan · #12 06/20/12, 08:47 PM

If I was looking for sheer guts. A true Irish short wire jack russell. They will take on all comers and the neighbors. Sorry to the AKC folk but a real irish jack is short and short backed. With a wider fore head and true grit like no bodies business. Lots of brains and lots of I'm a bigger darn dog then you and your buddy Bring IT!

But this was when I was overseas.

JPiantedosi · #13 06/20/12, 09:57 PM

I would say an Airdale, would be a good choice. I had one as a catch dog when we had coyote hounds and he was a bad ass! I also had a Terrier/Pit (bout 30lbs) cross that my parents laid claims to when I went back to college and I have seen her roll my dads neighbors pyr, for chasing my cows that are there on pasture.

I think my next general farm dog will be a rhodesian ridgeback.
Jim

TriWinkle · #14 06/20/12, 10:19 PM

Good suggestions...Not crazy about some terriers grooming requirements though...If ya gotta shear/groom a dog, then it probably wouldn't do well down in this Texas heat.

emdeengee · #15 06/20/12, 11:03 PM

Our first dog was part Husky and part something else big and would scrap with his own shadow if in the mood and he was pretty moody. And he never gave up. But he was the gentlest dog with people.

BarbadosSheep · #16 06/21/12, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YankeeinMarylan

If I was looking for sheer guts. A true Irish short wire jack russell. They will take on all comers and the neighbors. Sorry to the AKC folk but a real irish jack is short and short backed. With a wider fore head and true grit like no bodies business. Lots of brains and lots of I'm a bigger darn dog then you and your buddy Bring IT!

But this was when I was overseas.

Sorry, but the REAL original Jack Russell Terrier is not an Irish breed, it's English. Parson Russell developed this breed to hunt foxes and described them as "long of leg" to keep up with the horses. The short legged ones are not correct to today's breed standard or the original breed standard. But yeah...they will take on most anything. They won't win against a big dog but that won't keep them from trying. I had a female once that insisted she could beat my female Rottie. After two failed attempts (each of which nearly killed her), we had to find her a new home where she could be the only dog.

Haven · #17 06/21/12, 09:19 AM

Most of the short-legged terriers are tenacious and give me a run for my money at work. Even the little Foofroo house/couch terriers that do not like getting groomed, come tearing into the shop, tail up, ready to spar, looking forward to the fight over trimming their nails that they know is coming. They enjoy the fight.

These dogs really do not have huge grooming requirements as long as you keep them lightly hand stripped at home. Most people shave them which is what creates a more difficult, messed up coat.

Wolf Flower · #18 06/21/12, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriWinkle

Good suggestions...Not crazy about some terriers grooming requirements though...If ya gotta shear/groom a dog, then it probably wouldn't do well down in this Texas heat.

Jack Russell, Jagd and Fox terriers come in smooth-coated varieties. But yeah, the Airedales can carry quite a bit of coat, which would need clipping.

Pops2 · #19 06/22/12, 12:52 AM

you can get slick, broken & true wire coated airedales. they're called redlines & are bred for work. they are mostly versatile hunters, but some have been trained to herd some.

Wolf Flower · #20 06/22/12, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pops2

you can get slick, broken & true wire coated airedales. they're called redlines & are bred for work. they are mostly versatile hunters, but some have been trained to herd some.

Well, I'll be darned--I didn't know they came in a smooth coated variety! Cool!

Pops2 · #21 06/22/12, 02:52 PM

the original airedale came in slick, broken & wire coat. it was the show crowd w/o an understanding of work & their own standard that made their dogs have poodle like soft curly coats. still the show lines produce a throwback from time to time.
not sure about the top pic but it looks alot like a gyp Pete B has in PA.
the bottom pair are definitely off Matt T's line in AZ.

Allen W · #22 06/22/12, 06:21 PM

Really like the looks of the smooth coated airdales. Makes me want an airdale even more now. This old golden reteiver I have wouldn't put up with another big dog on the place though.

JasoninMN · #23 06/22/12, 06:55 PM

Its funny you say that allen about your golden. My neighbors golden liked to fight with everything and is one of the most animal/dog aggressive dogs I ever met. He got along good with my dog except they had to have a fight every year for him to remember she could beat the snot out of him. That goofy golden would fight anything and often times came out the loser but never hesitated to do it again.

Wolf Flower · #24 06/23/12, 11:53 AM

I found both the photos here: Mogollon Rim Index Page (JH version) . I emailed the fellow asking about the slick coats, he said they have always existed in the breed, but it was mostly eschewed by show fanciers. He says his Airedales are bred for hunting but make good farm dogs also. I have to say, I've always liked Airedales but hated the coats I've seen on most of them--soft, curly, profuse--and this guy breeds away from that type of coat. Nice guy, very willing to answer questions if you have any. His email is available through the website.

Haven · #25 06/23/12, 12:25 PM

I groom an Airedale that looks like the top one with the orange collar. Very small, narrow bitch with a fabulous, very light, straight, wire coat, almost smooth. Have never seen another one of her type around here. Will have to ask the owner where she came from.

Oddly enough, she is dumb as a box of rocks...like wide-eyed, spooky, whacky, running into walls type dumb.

Pops2 · #26 06/23/12, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf Flower

I found both the photos here: Mogollon Rim Index Page (JH version) . I emailed the fellow asking about the slick coats, he said they have always existed in the breed, but it was mostly eschewed by show fanciers. He says his Airedales are bred for hunting but make good farm dogs also. I have to say, I've always liked Airedales but hated the coats I've seen on most of them--soft, curly, profuse--and this guy breeds away from that type of coat. Nice guy, very willing to answer questions if you have any. His email is available through the website.

yeah Matt is good people. he's been the target of some slagging matches but I can't recall him ever starting one nor getting nasty back. the only other good working dale breeder near you is Don T & he only produces the big wooly ones. not to mention you can get two or three pups from Matt for what Don charges. if i were looking to get a pup where i'm at now i'd go to Matt.

Pops2 · #27 06/23/12, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allen W

Really like the looks of the smooth coated airdales. Makes me want an airdale even more now. This old golden reteiver I have wouldn't put up with another big dog on the place though.

might be agood dale would cure him of that.

Allen W · #28 06/23/12, 01:06 PM

Pops

He's earned his place

Pops2 · #29 06/23/12, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allen W

Pops

He's earned his place

not saying he hasn't. just saying a good dale might teach him that fighting if he don't have to is more exhaustion than he wants to go through every day. not to mention if he helps raise a pup they may not ever get into a scrap anyway.

sandsuncritters · #30 06/23/12, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pops2

yeah Matt is good people. he's been the target of some slagging matches but I can't recall him ever starting one nor getting nasty back. the only other good working dale breeder near you is Don T & he only produces the big wooly ones. not to mention you can get two or three pups from Matt for what Don charges. if i were looking to get a pup where i'm at now i'd go to Matt.

And my respect for your knowledge and experience just increased a notch (or 2+)

In His Love
Mich