need information on 4H

[3sunz]

I have heard several mentions of getting your kids in 4H and that it would benefit them. We have 2 goats, 19 chickens and 3 turkeys. Not a whole lot, but enough for now. My boys would always like to get more. What is the benefit of 4H? What do they do? How do the kids raise money? Also, do they help you find animals for cheaper prices? My boys have been interested for awhile now, but I would like some more information. Anything you can provide, good or bad, would be appreciated.

[rich2748]

4-H can be a good thing but there can be a lot of negatives. It depends on your perspective and where you are located and the other people involved. I was a 10 year member of 4-H when young, I lived at the local county fair one week every summer. I loved it. However, things have changed a lot. I have 4 kids in 4H and we really have to weigh things each year to determine if it is really worth it. My wife is opposed but lets me make the choice. So far with careful monitoring we are still involved. It can be very expensive and very upsetting if your child really wants to win. Some people go to any lengths to see that their child has the best animal money can buy. When our children care for their goats and proudly show them only to get put down by some child who only touches the animal on the day of the show it can be a bad experience and unfair. We prepare our kids beforehand. They go in for the fun of it and really don't care how they place. We have surprised a lot of people though. My four have won three showmanship trophies and Grand Champion two times. The only time it is profitable is if you win GC. Got to go.

[bonsai jim]

Originally Posted by 3sunz

I have heard several mentions of getting your kids in 4H and that it would benefit them. We have 2 goats, 19 chickens and 3 turkeys. Not a whole lot, but enough for now. My boys would always like to get more. What is the benefit of 4H?

I have 3 boys in 4H right now.

It's not all about animals. Project subjects can be in all sorts of things.

As has already been mentioned one benefit is scholarship money. Additionally there are many leadership, public speaking, community service and educational opportunites. Kids learn about the importance of standards. They learn aspects of running a business- farming or otherwise.


What do they do?

Here's a link to the 4H project list (and other info)...

http://texas4-h.tamu.edu/project/projectlist.htm

There's the "projects" of course, but here there are also youth projects for the fair- they can be things outside the main project- they can also sell them in the "Country Store". They also do community service, banquets, etc. etc.

Here there are some clubs that specialize mostly in one thing. One seems to be into textiles and design. Another is cattle, and a there's a "Horse" one as well- not that it;s the only thing the kids do...

How do the kids raise money?

There are things like "scrambles" at the fair- basically equals sponsorship for next year's project- i.e., at the fair one of the "entertainment events" is the 4H'ers catching the animal they want to raise...

We do fundraisers on occasion- bake sales, etc.- it depends on the club. We are adamant about not having door to door nonsense. We have promotions through the local feed stores and a few other means.

Also, do they help you find animals for cheaper prices?

Not necessarily. 4H is not about scoring you cheap stock for your farm. They are about teaching your children about raising quality animals. With many animals they (4H) must provide them- not sure about prices and how cheap they are. I guess it's about everyone starting with the same material.

My boys have been interested for awhile now, but I would like some more information. Anything you can provide, good or bad, would be appreciated.

While some folks have pointed out the raising of animals by others, etc. etc. this is true of just about any activity- the number of NASA engineers or UT PhD's that do their kids science fairs around here is disgusting- but as in 4H there's money involved now and that tends to foul anything it seems. Here it's BIG money. Taking Grand Prize Steer basically gets you a 4 year scholarship.

But on a positive note- as in other activities YOU control that aspect- my kids as well as the others in our club pretty much take care of their own stuff. Sure, you have to remind them. I know the parents help in the culling- as do the Ag agents- it's about learning.

Our Ag agent has implemented a few new rules- which I imagine are coming from on high and become universal.

He is inspecting everyone that is raising livestock. Unannounced and several times. He is looking at animal welfare, steroid and other supplement use, and assessing the kids competence- i.e., do they really know what's going on... He has the power to disqualify anyone from competing. Additionally he is requiring all kids competing to take "Quality Counts" and 8-hour trianing class where they learn many of the animal husbandry fundamentals.

I think some of this is in response to an incident at the fair last year - grandma raised the kid's rabbits- they took the wrong ones home and a big to-do occurred!


Jim Stone
Santa Fe, TX
Galveston County Wranglers

[3sunz]

Originally Posted by mygoat

i have heard that 4h has gone down. it's parent's livestock and they really want to see them win, and really competetive now. i belive it's all out of pocket as well. If you dont regularly show it would get very expensive.
but that is just what i heard. im not in 4h. you also have to leave your animals in the community fair barn, and they are exposed to diseases that people track in and from direct contact to other animals there. people like to feed the animals things such as candy and things otherwise bad for them to get the animals in petting range. someone had a goat get extreme bloat from getting fed the bread from a sub sandwitch. i belive it died.
Nice to see you back here!! did the goats ever warm up to you?

The goats warmed up a little, but they are still kinda crazy!! We are trying to hang in there with them, though. They still jerk away when we try to pet them. I don't know what to do besides give them more time. Thanks for checking with me!

[3sunz]

thanks for all of the replies. I tried to go to my local extension office to get more information, but the person in charge of 4H has resigned and they haven't been replaced, yet! No help there. I appreciate all of the responses as I am trying to make a good decision here.

[shelljo]

I can't believe that no one else in the extension office can help. Go back and ask for the names of some club leaders. They can help.

I was a 4-Her and now my kids are. 4-H varies from county to county and state to state. I encouraged my kids to join to learn not only about animals, but to become better public speakers, to become involved in community events, to learn. We've bounced from project to project, trying new things. While I grew up in the country, I never showed animals. That in itself has been a learning experience for my kids and myself. But, the things I did, and the things my kids are doing have given them confidence and more self-awareness. They enjoy it all--except keeping their record books. That's a fight, but overall, they really enjoy it.

[Kazahleenah]

3sunz,
I was a 4H member till I was 19, then have been a leader since. Yes, there are (and always will be) those parents etc that ruin things... but at least in Michigan, the smaller counties still have a pretty good set-ups and fairs. You said that the director has retired in your county... do you know that you can show in ANY county, but may only show each progect in one county? If you show goats in one county, you cannot show goats in another that year, but it doesn't have to be the county you live in. (especally since your county has no director currently)
Here are a couple Virginia specific links for you, feel free to pm me if you have questions...

http://www.ext.vt.edu/resources/4h/

http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/releases/...4hcenters.html


I don't see dairy goats on their list, but they most likley offer it... if they don't it's fairly easy to get them to start.

Have fun!!

Kaza

[3sunz]

Kaza and Shelljo, thanks for the information. The links were very helpful. And no, I did not know that we could participate in another county. Our neighboring county office is actually closer to us than the county we live in! I may try that. And Shelljo, I think I am going to have to fight about the recordkeeping, also. It's hard enough to get my boys to do homework! lol

[tallpines]

4-H is one of the best things to happen to my family.
It was a great help at building self esteem and kept my kids too busy to think about getting into any less note worthy activity.

Our club was about 1/2 farm kids and 1/2 city kids.

It was a family activity.
The kids who got the most out of it were the kids whose whole family got involved................and that means the PARENTS were involved.

Our club participated in EVERYTHING---not just going to the fair.

We played in Softball and Volleyball tournaments,
We went on 3 day canoe trips...fishing trips....hiking trips.
We entered into drama and music contests....speaking contests....poster contests.
We got involved in community projects----planting flower beds at a nursing home.....June Dairy promotion.....parade floats...

Everyone of these activities required a leader and the parents all took turns in some way or another---whether it was coaching the softball team or sewing costumes for a drama festival or teaching a craft.

And while all of this stuff was going on the kids were working on their own personal preojects for entering at the county fair.

One year my 5 children had 90 projects to get ready and haul the 40 miles to the fair grounds.
That included 27 animals----chickens, ducks, geese, rabbits, a cat, 3 pigs and 3 calves.
Cookies, birdhouses, wildflower scrapbooks, woodworking projects, arts and crafts, sewing items, vegtables, field crops,....

As the young people became teenagers, they became Junior leaders and helped, or took over with helping the younger members.

I can't give 4-H (and our WONDERFUL county leader) enough credit for helping my kids to become the well established adults that they are today.

[bill not in oh]

Tall Pines is a tough act to follow.... Our experience with 4H has been great. Two of our three have participated since we left the evil city four years ago - DD #1 was just too depressed about living in the country and going to a valid school (14 is a tough age to change schools & leave friends). It's taught the other two about daily responsibility in caring for the animals, responsibility to a group (their club - they've both been officers), the value of a community, fiscal responsibility (we finance the projects - feed, meds, vet visits, registration fees, etc., but they are responsible for repaying out of any awards or auction proceeds), the difference between pets and livestock and the list goes on and on and on....

There are folks involved that are very competitive - you find that more in the market projects, though, as there can be considerable amounts of money involved (the grand champion meat pen for rabbits this year sold for $1700 - you can imagine what the GC beef cow went for); and it's generally the parents that generate the competitive environment.

Here, there are folks raising excellent stock that sell for fairly significant discounts to kids that are buying animals for 4H projects. Three years ago DS raised a market lamb. The farmer we bought the lamb from sold it to him for $65 which is basically an auction house price. The lamb won its weight class and finished 9th overall in a field of about 250. Most of the feed stores offer 4H discounts on any purchases and some of the vets (the ones that still work with livestock if you can find 'em) either donate services or discount them deeply. Most will make time available for lectures/seminars to the different project groups for education and advice.

The network is very active and the roots run very deep. Once you get your kids over 'winningosis' they just have a good time and inadvertantly learn some pretty meaningful lessons along the way - just don't let them know that part...

[Chickencrazygg]

I am a 4-H'er now and it is the best! I have just completed my 8th year and I have done very well in it. I also have won a scholarship. It all depends on who your leader is. You should go to different club's meeting to find which one is best for your family. A good leader is a priceless resource.

There are also other programs through 4-H that you can win, such as dairy foods judging. I was they overall high point in the my state contest and I have won a trip to the Nat. Dairy Con.

I have saved tons of money on livestock things because I am in 4-H. Lots of the feed and tack stores give discounts. Just Ask. Also the are several programs if you show your animal such as, Manna Pro's Youth Livestock program, that give you rebates on feed. If you win they give you free shirts and jackets.

4-H has changed my life and taught me many things. There are other projects besides livestock that you can do. The most important part is to learn something, even if you don't come away with a trophy, the stuff you learn is the most valuable and worthwhile prize. In our county there are many people who are willing to help you. I hope your kids enjoy 4-H as much as I do.


Rebekah