Does anyone feed a medicine in their feed mix?

[HHR]

I mix my own feed but I am looking for a goat approved medication to add?

Thanks

[natybear]

What are you treating or preventing? If we knew what you are looking for it would be easier to suggest what you need or could use.

Natalie

[livestockmom]

I was wondering the same thing... I don't know if you were thinking along the lines of an antibiotic but, I was wondering if Terramycin crumbles top dressed on feed could be given for colds, pinkeye, ect in a herd?

[Misty]

I would not add an antibiotic. None of the commercial show feeds do. I would have rumensin added is all. It promotes weight gain, (tested and proven in cattle, works in goats in field tests from various producers), and does a great job coccidiosis prevention.

[dosthouhavemilk]

Rumenisn
Monensin is an ionophore antibiotic that functions primarily in the rumen by inhibiting certain bacteria and allowing others to proliferate.


We use a similar coccidiostat in our feed for our lactating does and young kids. It is in our heifer grain for our 6-15 month old dairy heifers. This is what our goats receive for grain, when we grain them.

[livestockmom]

Where would I find Rumensin? Is that what I would ask for or does it have another name and the Rumensin is in it?

Has anyone used Terramycin Crumble?

[Misty]

your feed store should be able to get it for you. Dosthouhavemilk posted the other name for it. They will not eat it at first, but soon they will get hungry and learn to eat or do without. I have not used any crumbles in the goats feed. I don't see a need to. I believe it will increase antibiotic resistance over time.
www.geocities.com/buckshotboers
www.geociteis.com/gonzalesshowpigs

[livestockmom]

Roseanna, Is the name of the the product Monesin? and it has Rumenisn in it? My feed store doesnt carry it but they said if I know the exact name of the product, they will.... thanks so much...

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

pipevet.com sells all of them, they also give you directions for mixing, but it's for a ton of feed. Most are such small amounts it would be hard and dangerous to mix yourself without the right equipment. We use Deccox, which we first use the Deccox M in the milk of all kids daily until weaning, they are then weaned onto a pellet that contains Deccox. Once 7 months and bred they are taken off this grain pellet, since the problems with cocci are gone by then. Adult goats don't need cocci treatment, although if you let all your kids nurse and cocci is a problem in your herd, than using it in your very pregnant and nursing stock will lower the amount in pasture. There is also Lasalocid which we used for years.

Be careful using calf feeds, the amount per pound of body weight needed for goats is alot more. Goats have very quick metabolisims and need more drugs per pound of body weight than cattle or sheep. If you have cocci outbreaks, stunted kids, poor growth, ethiopian bellys or diarrhea with death in some kids, than your cocci meds are not working because of dose. Make sure if yours are coming premade, that you know how many pounds of pellets per pound of goat (ours is 1 pound per 50 pounds of bodyweight) needs to be eaten or you will once again have outbreaks. Vicki

[livestockmom]

Thank you Vicki for all the information. I went to UC Davis to have some goat disbudding done and also took some Llama blood down the same day for pregnancy confirmation so thought i would run fecals in all our different pastures. Just took the poop that I could get as it was falling, not a mixed sampling from animals and mixed together. Took one of a llama, one from a Yearling ewe, one from my lamb pasture of weaning lambs, one from the Pygmy pasture and one from my dairy does.... ( I had wormed with Ivomec injectable 30 days prior and 10 weeks before that with Valbazen.)
All were great, really great.... except in the lamb pasture (5 month olds)
Done by McMaster Trichostongyle eggs - 600 eggs/GM of feces
Coccidia oocysts present- 150 eggs/GM of feces
Nematodirus eggs present- 100 eggs/GM of feces
I dont know if these levels are high or low but I was very alarmed to see the Coccidia...
Made me look into what I can do without having to use the Meds in the water ( big troughs of water) or handle each one by hand using DiMethox or Sulmet with 60+ lambs - saw this thread about adding medication to feed and wondered if there was anything I can do that would be easier?

I drove 2 hours to Tractor Supply today and bought Terramycin Crumbles only to read the back and get totally confused how much to mix with their grains, sheesh is confusing. And it listed its uses for every animal under the sun BUT goats so dont know if I can use it in the goats food.

Can you steer me in a better direction Vicki? I would like something that helps with the colds we seem to get everytime we go to a goat show (and people who say their animals must have allegies) and we end up with snotty noses and weeping eyes 5 days later.
And of course, something for the lambs to help them grow and stay healthy...
Sounds like Terramycin might not have been the one I should have gotten...
Please give me a direction, I really would like to use something.
Thanks ever so much!

[Nancy_in_GA]

Dear livestockmom,
I'm not Vicki, but I can address your question about the egg count levels.

I think that level of nematodirus is serious, because these worms supposedly lay very few eggs and not very often. So 100 eggs per gram could mean a lot of worms in the lamb.

Those levels of either strongyles or coccidia, alone, would not be so serious, but with the combination of all three, I think you need to get some worm medicine in the lamb, as well as treat for coccidia.

Both Ivermectin and Valbazen are supposed to get the nematodirus, but the strongyles have become rather resistant to Ivermectin here. And I would do the worm medicine orally rather than by injection.

Nancy

[livestockmom]

Thank you Nancy... I will worm with Valbazen today. This sample came from a bottle baby who is in the pasture with the rest of the lambs. I should have taken a sample from one other than a bottle baby but you know how easy they are to get a fresh sample from with them being so friendly, I have to assume the rest would be the same with them graszing in the same pasture?
All the other reports from other pastures were great and they were all wormed at the same time with Ivomec Injectable.
Can I ask a silly question? I drew up 60 needles of Ivomec, ready to go when I had to stop and not inject them that day... I put the needles in a container in the barn up high and it was 4 days later when we could round them all up and give them their injections. Well, they acted like it was incredibly painful! I thought it was just the first one so I did another and had the same reaction...called a friend on the phone and told him how the Ivomec has sat in the syringe for a few days and wondered about its safety and effectiveness and he said not to worry, and it has a carrier that is painful ( the adults have never reacted this way) Do you think perhaps this worming was not effective because I handled the Ivomec wrong?

Wow, I have really stolen this thread and am way off topic, I appologize... thank you all for your help....

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

I don't really understand the cocci readings as they are not multiples of 100's but 1000's. In the thousands than yes we do treat for cocci. In the hundreds I would not even be alarmed. I just think the feed through pellets are just so simple to deal with, than adding anything yourself. You will have to use a sheep feed with cocci meds in it and then deal with the low amount of copper in the grain by bolusing your kids, or by having a seperate area for the goats that they can get to a loose mineral with copper in it. Without adequate minerals in their diet, which you aren't going to get in a sheep mineral or feed, your goats will be prone to huge worm and cocci burdens, foot rot and reproductive problems because of this nutritional stress, couple that with where you live, the Pacific coast, worse if you are northwest, and your copper defficiency is off the hook there.

I would also move to orally worming like was stated above. And yes, keeping your drugs out of the label sugestions, for both highs and lows of temperature, does cause them to break down. But Ivermectin injected plain hurts. Bottle dosages are fine for your sheep, they are not fine for your goats. The oral Ivermectin they sell for sheep is 13 times less than what we use in goats. Your sheep are sloths, very slow metabolisims, your goats have very quick metabolisims.

I don't worm until my numbers reach 300 this time of year, waiting until 3000 eggs per gram during fall and winter (which rarely happens due to pregnancy hormones), so yes I would reworm everyone, if strongydes are a problem in your area. I have never seen it broken down into nematodes either, and would like to know which ones they found. Here if I got your reading on haemoncous/barber pole worms than yes I would worm, if it was on anything else including strongydes I would take another fecal next month.

If the nematode count is added to the worms to 700 than yes you need to worm the whole herd.

Valbazen is a good wormer for tapes. Did UC Davis give you advice on using Valbazen in your area, or to use the Valbazen because of the specific worm? Did they also tell you to switch with Ivermectin? Did you talk specifically with the small ruminant parisitologist on staff? Do you have other breeders in your area that you know that have stock you admire that you can use the wormers and the brands of feed they are for treating worms and cocci? Really important to you in this because of the copper problems you will eventually face.

The reason I would like you to find a local mentor or to speak to the parasitologist for yourself, or find a local goat club (adga.org) so you can talk to several breeders, is that parastie levels in your area are usually low due to the dryness. Also although some of the levels seem high, they may not be in your area. Overworming when you don't need to, switching wormers each time, using the wrong drug at wrong dosage, and wrong route because your are injecting is how you build resistance to drugs. So the whole way you are doing things needs to be revamped.

Some of the nutritional stress that causes the worm, cocci and other problems also has alot to do with overall herd health. And if you have pnemonia problems, which is really nothing more than the overgrowth of pasturella in the nose of these goats with snotty noses, is caused by this stress. Once you deal with your goats as a whole, you will see overall herd health get better.

We started out vaccinating for pasturella, there is one shots now that you can order from jeffers that deal only with the two types, multicidia and hemoticulla that goats get. They dont' get the IBR and alphabet soup ones cows get that the nasal vaccines give you coverage for. Vaccinating your adult animals when bred will stimulate not only their immune systems to remind them they have immunity to this, but also will bolster the colostrum for the kids. Using colostrum from your vaccinatied oldest ewes and does and using it on all kids and lambs retained will drasitically help. ((When I ran boers who damraised their kids, I simply tubed each kid born with about 2 ounces of high quality colostrum as soon as I found them)) Feed through antibiotics will also help for now, getting you through the fall, you can purchase 50 pound sacks of crumbles from feed mills (usually a simple alfalfa base pellet), you use the calf dosage added to the grain for goats, no idea on the sheep....tetracycline is the drug you are after.

If you couple the feed through antibiotic, with vaccination, working on your mineral program which in turn helps the girls immune response because they are no longer nutritionally stressed (a huge thing).......Then when everyone freshens/lambs next spring you should have all your problems behind you. Vicki

[livestockmom]

Thank you Vicki for your time and your knowledge!

First, I need to say that I would NEVER mix species. I will not be facing all the problems you listed as we do not ever mix our species. In fact, our goats have different pastures by breed and our sheep have seperate pastures having to run seperate rams due to breeds. That is why I had to run so many different fecals due to the seperation of all our herd/flocks.

We are on all irrigated pastures so we are not dry like many in our area.

I can't thank you enough for the tremendous amount of information you gave me but I think you may have me mistaken for someone who just does things willy nilly... I have a flock and herd to be admired, I AM a mentor to many. That is why I care enough to drive to UC Davis and check up on myself and my program, and also post on here when I have a question. I feel I have a fantastic program yet got a fecal result such as this in my lamb pasture, so I asked a question. I take my job as a producer seriously. Asking and learning and staying abreast on all the new information and testing is key to herd health.
My herds/flocks have free choice loose minerals with Selinium for their species and recieve all their immunizations (and BOSE at birth.) We are over the top with our care. (we are one that even monitor them under audio and video).
That is why this particular fecal bothered me so much. The snotty noses after our last show bothers me, many producers are having the same problems and I want to know how it can be prevented during show season.. Herd health is of utmost importance.
Thank you for all your information, its very much appreciated. I think you misjudged how we care for our animals and that I needed to defend myself, just because we have colds from a show and a lamb fecal awry.
Just trying to problem solve is all, never used antibiotics in feed before but interested in their uses and if it could work for us.