Which sex contributes to multiple births?

[mailman]

Hello, can anyone tell me which sex contributes the most to a young kids predominance to have multiple births (or not)? Is it the mother, father, or both....hmmmmm. Thank you very much....Dennis

[mary,tx]

Just like in people, the mother determines how many, the father determines the sex of the offspring.
mary

[Ken in Maine]

It's the female that has the eggs and determines the number that she will have fertilized. I'm not so sure that the male determines the sex.. after all how do you explain twins.. trips that are not all the same sex.

Each does their part!

[Wendy]

I'm not so sure that the male determines the sex.. after all how do you explain twins.. trips that are not all the same sex.

The male does determine the sex. Twins & triplets that are not the same sex are because the doe released more than one egg in that cycle & each egg was fertilized by a different sperm. Identical twins happen when one egg is fertilized & then splits into two kids. I am not even sure if identical twins happen much in animals. Most of my twin sets are opposite sexes.

[Kimi]

With multiple births, you can pretty much tell when it is an identical twin vs. a fraternal twin in that if they are identical, they will share one amniotic sack, while fraternal twins will each have their own amniotic sack.
Identical twinning does occur in animals, my neighbor just had identical twin calves (both calves in one sack).....but just because they are "identical", doesn't mean their markings will be, but they will be very similar. Color will be however.
I love genetics!
Did you know there are only 2 colors of horses?

[debitaber]

the female, and how many eggs she drops, nand if you have a good storng healthy mail, you will get more than one birth. if his sperm is good, then you will get twins, triplets, and quads, some times more.

[bethlaf]

the genetics are equally contributed, 50 50 , but the kind of twinning is determined more by the mothers genetics than the fathers, nutrition has of course a huge factor to play in this as well, a well fed doe is more likely to have multiples than a poorly fed or biologically stressed animal

there are contributions from each side, but its important to know what they are, for example, line breeding from the buck i have contribuetes well attatched udders, however after about 3 generations, it also tends to make smaller teats ....
so i wont be line breeding from him for that long
makes sense right?
and to look at genetics you have to look at a does whole life , same as a bucks all his offspring, and thier offspring too !
this is why pedigrees and registrations as well as your own private herd book can be so important

for example:, i have a doe, the last 2 kiddings were singles,both bucks do i cull her, if i am breeding for multiples- doe kids?

well based on that information alone, perhaps .

but now take in other factors , age of doe milking capabilities, etc ,
she is a senior doe , going on 10 years, even with the bucks she has had good size kids , and she milks like a pig ...... has excellent temperment ,great stand personality , and generally a pleasant doe
those traits she passes on ( i have her daughter and grand daughter too, and next year will be hoping for a great grand daughter from her line)
now what do you do ?????

personally,i have accepted that thogh she still produces kids i might not get another doe kid from her ( i hope for one more) shes a good doe, and she will live out her life here on the farm next year at 10 , i will decide if she still gets milked or is allowed to dam raise her kid, obviously if its a buk i cant keep it for breedings,but its still a valuable kid, based on his mother and her offspring...

genetics is tricky ....
but can be great fun
Beth

[chamoisee]

The female determines the number, *but* so do other factors such as nutrition, season, age, health, and so on. She drops more eggs if she is in optimal shape and has the genetics to do so.

The male contribute multiple birth factors through his *daughters*, not directly in the mutliple births of kdis that he sired.

Example: my buck is a quad. He doesn't father any more multiple births than any other buck with a decent sperm count. But, his daughters have a better chance of having triplets and quads than would does sired by a buck from a bloodline where his dam had mostly single births for most of her life (even if she had one set of twins or triplets and he was in that set). If multiple birthing is important to you, you need to get a buck from a doe who ideally had twins as a yearling and triplets, preferably, after that. Does who have singles the first time often produce twins after that...the firts time twinners are the ones with a better chance at having triplets later on. Of course, this also depends on the size, age, and condition of teh doeling when she was bred...etc etc....

Caution!----> If you are going to breed for multipl births, you need to be prepared to breed for does who can hold up under that, and to feed them what they need. Do *not* feed such does nothing but grass hay and no grain while pregnant, it's asking for teeny, weak kids and a mother with not enough milk.

You also need to be prepared to sort them out at birthing time more often than with twins.

[mailman]

Hello, is it ok for me to post your response in my online library? I use it for my own reference. Thanks....Dennis www.countrybuck.com

Originally Posted by chamoisee

The female determines the number, *but* so do other factors such as nutrition, season, age, health, and so on. She drops more eggs if she is in optimal shape and has the genetics to do so.

The male contribute multiple birth factors through his *daughters*, not directly in the mutliple births of kdis that he sired.

Example: my buck is a quad. He doesn't father any more multiple births than any other buck with a decent sperm count. But, his daughters have a better chance of having triplets and quads than would does sired by a buck from a bloodline where his dam had mostly single births for most of her life (even if she had one set of twins or triplets and he was in that set). If multiple birthing is important to you, you need to get a buck from a doe who ideally had twins as a yearling and triplets, preferably, after that. Does who have singles the first time often produce twins after that...the firts time twinners are the ones with a better chance at having triplets later on. Of course, this also depends on the size, age, and condition of teh doeling when she was bred...etc etc....

Caution!----> If you are going to breed for multipl births, you need to be prepared to breed for does who can hold up under that, and to feed them what they need. Do *not* feed such does nothing but grass hay and no grain while pregnant, it's asking for teeny, weak kids and a mother with not enough milk.

You also need to be prepared to sort them out at birthing time more often than with twins.

[mpillow]

There is also a post by Vicki McGaugh explaining that trips are nutrition based and quads are inherited....you'll have to search for it.

I personally had a doe throw trips twice in a row each with two doelings one buck with only excellent quality hay being fed thru pregnancy. She did get grain once she kidded. She had good production. The month of Jan.(mid pregnancy) being below zero both years in modest barn conditions....open rafter ends and no electricity. Her daughters each had twins the first time and the one I still have had twins again on 2nd freshening. The mother was 9 and 10 yo having trips.

Personally I just want mine to have twin doelings every time thank you very much

[chamoisee]

Mailman, that would be fine, Thank you for asking. I feel honored, actually.

[mailman]

I tried, but could not find Vicki's posting. hmmmmmmm

Originally Posted by mpillow

There is also a post by Vicki McGaugh explaining that trips are nutrition based and quads are inherited....you'll have to search for it.

I personally had a doe throw trips twice in a row each with two doelings one buck with only excellent quality hay being fed thru pregnancy. She did get grain once she kidded. She had good production. The month of Jan.(mid pregnancy) being below zero both years in modest barn conditions....open rafter ends and no electricity. Her daughters each had twins the first time and the one I still have had twins again on 2nd freshening. The mother was 9 and 10 yo having trips.

Personally I just want mine to have twin doelings every time thank you very much

[mpillow]

Sorry I couldnt find it either....I've spent 30 min looking....but I know I read it at some point in time!!!!

[mailman]

Thanks for trying mpillow, interesting subject......Dennis