Mineral question

[Patt]

I have noticed that our goats are not eating the goat mineral I have out for them. They do eat the beef cattle mineral we have out for the cows any time they get access to it. Should I go ahead and mix some in with their mineral? I feed purina goat chow on the milking stand (I have 2 does, nubian and nubian/alpine x) and they have all the browse they can eat plus high quality hay.
Patt

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

You are probably better off feeding loose cattle minerals to your goats if they are working well for your cattle. Most of the "new' goat minerals are simply mollassased so the goats eat them better...but suprise alot of goats hate them. Mine wouldn't touch the Purina goat minerals. I fed Purina beef cattle minerals for years, nearly the same thing, only 1/2 again as much cheaper but without the molassas. Right now we are feeding Tech Master Complete, Bluebonnet puts these out and you can get them at Tractor Supply if you ask. They are for cattle, horse and goats...yep goats on the label! They contain kelp, probitoics and yeast. Vicki

[Patt]

Thanks! I'll look out for that. I figured I probably should just trust them to know what they needed.
Patt

[copperpennykids]

What if you live in a severely selenium deficient area such as North idaho? The vets here suggest a mineral with 90PPM selenium and Purina Goat Mineral has 25 PPM, Hoegger's Golden blend has 26 PPM and Sweet Lix Meat Maker has 50 PPM.

I have a doe that freshened 4 weeks ago and 2 weeks after she freshened she went way down in her rear pasterns . A friend suggested I try a shot of Bose (She received a shot both 2 AND 4 weeks before kidding) and within 6 hours she was back up on her toes. A week later, down she went again. So another shot of Bose so she doesn't ruin herself while I figure out what is wrong.

I spoke with WSU and they want to test her blood, which I will do the next time she goes down (they need the blood without the Bo-Se in it) but I wondered if any of you had encountered this problem before. also, are there any people in the Pacific Northwest who use a dairy cow mineral and if so, which one?

Thanks

Camille

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Your vet can write a perscription for a feed mill to mix you an above the USDA allowable selenium amount, in a mineral or in your grain mix. But, you must know how much is in the mineral they are actually eating, also in the grain mix, browse and their hay.

Remember that the amount of selenium allowable in the shot of say Bo-se (since there are several different types and brands) is 1cc per 40 pounds. Here that is a normal amount to give since we aren't so much defficient, now that we have our copper problems addressed, as much as we want to bolster them. But for you that number in the injection would be much much higher. 1cc per 40 pounds in a minimal amount of selenium.

Also the goats need E to assimilate the selenium, and there isn't but a minute amount of E in the shot. So what other E is in your does diet? When was the last time...before winter? that your does ate anything green? How old is the alfalfa hay that you are feeding...why I like to feed alfalfa pellets, freeze dried at the time of baling, suspending the quality of the vitamins and minerals in the alfalfa hay, quite different than the nearing 9 month old hay you are feeding your does! And if it's just grass hay you could be adding to the problems you think are selenium with poor absoption of calcium. With good dairy goats you have to be able to look at the diet and see where their dietary calcium is coming from...any defficiency at all (in copper or selenium or) and they can not absorb the calcium carbonate or calcium sulfate in a 2 to 1 cal to phos ratio.

The day my does kid they get 400IU of vitamin E on the milkstand, along with 500 mg of Vitamin C. All of them but one will eat the capsule and the table right off the top of their grain, the other doe gets her's snipped and squished into her grain. Mine stay on both until well into lactation and the pastures are up good and the browse is fresh in the forest.

They do make topdressing vitamin E and selenium crumbles that you could also feed, check out the equine catalog from jeffers, or jeffersequine.com.

Also make sure that you are really looking at selenium defficiency, your lack of this trace mineral could be scewed by the lack of something else in the diet of your goats. When addressing our copper, we no longer had many of the problems that were always blamed on selenium here. Without blood tests I would never so drastically up any mineral (with copper you run liver biopsy) because lets face it most vets don't know anything about small ruminants.

On our forum dairygoatsplus.com we have a gal from Idaho on there, perhaps she could help you also with this, she has lovely stock. Vicki

[copperpennykids]

Dear Vicki,

I was hoping you would respond--much of the info and advice that you give I can take straight to the bank...Thank you so very much.
I agree that this may not be Selenium defiency at all since none of my other goats seem to be having any problems...just this first freshener (she would be the one that took Grand and Reserve X 2 in the 5 rings she went to last year).

I have excellent alfalfa and alfalfa/grass (just as high in flakes as the straight alfalfa, only the goats eat all the stems) and it is still a lovely green. I do realize that the nutrient value goes down over time, but again this has never bothered my other girls and they are heavier milkers than this one. Una (the problem child) is giving 7 lbs. 3 weeks into her lactation. Last year, Titania was giving 12 lbs at 8 weeks...no problems at all. (first freshener)
And Dinah is currently giving 17 lbs. at 3 weeks lactation (she is 5 yrs. old)

Anyway, what you bring up regarding calcium absorption is resonating with me...If we offer her milk, she guzzles it up. I have some MFO on hand for emergencies and was thinking about giving it to her. What do you think? I did give her some Probios plus E to boost her Vitamin E intake earlier this evening, but I also had to give her 2 more CCs of Bo-Se as she is way down in her pasterns again. I gave her 3 ccs on Thursday but was too nervous to give her so much in a week...

We pulled her blood before any supplements/shots tonight and we will pulll a few more girls' blood and send them off to WSU to rule out selenium deficiency...but what else do you think I should have them check for if it comes back fine? Copper deficency the doe has to be dead, right?

Appreciate all of your help. I tried to get onto your other forum, but I logged on a while ago and can't remember my "code" name or password...
I'll try again. By the way, S. Idaho is fine for Selenium, s o they say.

Camille

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Yes, it's a dead goat. The next adult you loose, simply put the liver in the freezer, when you are over the death, slice off a piece and send it in. Please don't give anymore Bo-se injections until you have figured out what is happening, but yes, I would wonder why one doe would have calcium problems and not the others. Instead of soo much animal testing you may want to have your hay tested, I bet you would be in for a shock just how little nutrition that green old stuff has You might want to get some injectable E, it's gold $$, and see if you get some relief from the going down on her pasterns. Is she out of a buck that throws longer than normal pasterns? Are you perhaps seeing a weakness in them? Does she fight alot?

Giving her calcium will not hurt, if you are going to use it subq make sure and warm it first. Treating her like you would be for milkfever, and B vitamins may work. And nothing like this will hurt. Are her gums a healthy red/pink? Vicki