Pics of a "perfect" udder?

[TWOGOATS]

Can people post websites of good udders, maybe say what is bad and what is good in each of them? I would like to learn more about that without going to an ADGA show; they are usually in IN and I am in CA. Also, I want to compare them to my goat's udder.

Thanks!

[billooo2]

Here are some sites with pictures.....not much explanation with them....
www.redwoodhill.com/herd_brochure
www.ir-ranch.com/Electra.com (and other does on that site)
http://chateaubriantfarm.com
http://cherryglenfarm.com

[Laura Workman]

There are a lot of websites with udder pictures on them. Most will have in writing the exceptionally strong points of the udder in question. Generally, if you're looking at a GCH (Grand Champion) animal, she'll have a good udder. Here are a couple from my website. These are Mini-Manchas.



The doe above has tremendous capacity, a strong, well-defined medial suspensory ligament, good teat size, shape and placement, nice lateral attachments, and a high, full rear udder. If I were going to improve the udder above, I'd give it a perfectly smooth foreudder attachment, and a somewhat wider upper rear udder, filling a more arched escutcheon area, such as the doe below is showing:


This is the beautiful GCH Windstar Notta Shy Anne 2*M, a standard Lamancha with an absolutely gorgeous rear udder. (NOT my doe, but my all-time favorite Lamancha.) You can see the high, wide arch in the escutcheon. About perfect in my opinion. She took third place in the 1999 national show.

The udder shots below are from a first-freshener Mini Mancha doe. The straight side shot shows just about the ideal 1/3 in back of the leg, 1/3 hidden by the leg, 1/3 in front of the leg. She has an extremely tight and smooth foreudder, teats of nice size and shape that could be placed a bit more toward the centerline, a strong, well-defined medial suspensory ligament, and overall a nicely globe-shaped udder, which many judges really like. She has a very nice rear arch and fullness, but to attain perfection should be a bit higher in the rear udder.



Hope that helps. If you want to see larger versions of the pictures above, my website is www.glimmercroft.com.

[KellyHill]

This is the beautiful GCH Windstar Notta Shy Anne 2*M, a standard Lamancha with an absolutely gorgeous rear udder. (NOT my doe, but my all-time favorite Lamancha.) You can see the high, wide arch in the escutcheon. About perfect in my opinion. She took third place in the 1999 national show.
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WOW!! This is sooo cool! I was just lookin at this pict and thinking wow thats my new goats grandma! So I looked at your website, and there is Sadie!

I just bought her from Mary 3 weeks ago! she's giving about 9.5-10 lbs a day. I just love her! she's such a sweety! I'll be on milk test starting monday the 2nd. I'm hoping she'll earn her star this year!

It sure is a small world!
Kathy Foster
Kellyhill LaManchas

[outofmire]

Thanks, Laura, for the explanation! I've been wondering about these things too.
Can you explain what "smooth foreudder attachment" means? Are you saying the foreudder should blend into the body better where it attaches?

I've thought about buying one of those books that explains what to look for in a good dairy goat. Anybody recommend one? I'm not looking to show, but I do what to breed for good dairy qualities - especially qualities that make a good longlasting producer.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

See the 3 pictures she posted? Put the arrow of you curser right infront of the teats, now see how the fore udder goes up into a peak to the belly? An excellent fore udder would follow your arrow straight to the body with no upward slant at all. It would flow right to the navel.

Each breed and then of course each bloodline in the breed has good and bad points. Nubians in the show ring have much better fore udders than most swiss breeds, in fact at alot of shows, the Alpines who are winning, would not have been kept with that foreudder in a Nubian show string (with all other things even also) Same with feet and legs, alot of swiss breeds and Lamancha's who come out of them do not have the really good feet and legs Nubians do. On the other hand, swiss breeds have better diary bone, better necks as a whole, and much better rear udders. They all excell in rumps and most in topline. LaMancha's have much better eiaser to breed into a show udder, udders. Nubians breed less true, have more mouth faults because it's where we came from.

The fastest way to improve your foreudder is to breed to a good Nubian buck who has a dam with an excellent foreudder Teasing, Vicki

[outofmire]

Thanks Vicki! I finally understand what that means. I have a doe that just freshened 3 wks ago for the first time. Her fore udder sounds like a good one based on your description, but could that just be because her udder isn't fully developed yet? If so, how long before you can tell?

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

There usually isn't much congestion/edema in the extension of the fore udder, so if it is nice, it likely will stay nice. But certainly by 6 to 8 weeks fresh what you see is what you get. You can have lots of changes in the foreudder, that includes pockets you can drive a truck into after congestion/edema goes down. Don't let anyone fool you that a flaw will improve over time, the more milk the older the doe the longer the lactation, just like us..them attachments to do not get better They get worse

[outofmire]

Well, in that case Vicki, I may be looking for a replacement doe because her rear attachment isn't very good. Compared to your pix, it looks pretty low and pendulous. She has cow hocks. I've heard that's a good indication of how well the udder with be attached. Have you heard that. It's like her legs are in the way....too close together or something.

[Laura Workman]

I'm not sure what three pictures Vicki is talking about, since I posted four, one being a triple picture. So, to be clear, the top doe, with the full body shot and the rear shot next to each other, is the one that could use a smoother foreudder attachment. The triple picture at the bottom of the post, with the three pictures merged into one, is a doe whose foreudder would be difficult to improve upon. Very smooth and tight, with no break at all between her udder and belly. Unfortunately, I didn't do the most expert shaving job and she has some dark hair that looks funny in the tiny photos I posted. If you go to the website and click on the pictures to get larger versions, you can see just how smooth her foreudder really is.

And, much as it pains me to do so, I'm going to have to disagree with Vicki's statement that "An excellent fore udder would follow your arrow [from right in front of the teats] straight to the body with no upward slant at all." I've attended a lot of shows and never seen a doe of any breed with any capacity to speak of whose udder did not slant upward from the teats to the body. For example, if you follow this link http://www.luckystarfarm.com/del.html you will go to the Lucky Star farm page showing a nice shot of GCH Lucky Star's QK Patina 2*M, appraised at a whopping 93 EEEE. This shot also clearly shows Patina's udder sloping upward from teats to belly. This doe milked 3,530 pounds of milk in her second lacation of 319 days. That's an average of eleven pounds a day. This doe also took Best in Show at the State Fair, winning over all other does of any breed, including Nubian.

And Kathy, it is good to hear from you. Congratulations on your purchase of Sadie. Incredible rump on that girl, and a lovely udder too!

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

You can't see the foreudder in the Lucky Star doe, you can see her lovely udder and how good her side attachments are. Foreudder is from between the teats, hopefully a hand width apart, and forward into the belly. Side attachments are the connection you see in a side shot that connect up under the leg and slightly fore. A foreudder is where you would see a shelf, although it can extend into the side.

The pictures, 3 merged into one larger one, clearly show a foreudder that has an indentation, and it is not smooth into the side attachments, and does go up into the belly, although it does have some extension of the fore obviously. A beautiful udder, but not 'perfect' like the Topic implied. Perhaps she is just overfilled, or it is the shaving job.

What the second picture in this same setup does show is the very nice 1/3 rule, 1/3rd of the udder behind the leg, 1/3rd in front and 1/3rd hidden.

Can't we all use better rear udders! Vicki

[Cheri]

Originally Posted by TWOGOATS

Can people post websites of good udders, maybe say what is bad and what is good in each of them? I would like to learn more about that without going to an ADGA show; they are usually in IN and I am in CA. Also, I want to compare them to my goat's udder.

Thanks!

Were in California are you? There are plenty of ADGA shows here. I'm in Southern California. This past Saturday was the San Bernardino Fair which is an ADGA junior sanctioned show. Saturday before that there was an open sanctioned show as well in Victorville. There is an INBA Specialty show in Lancaster weekend after next, two rings and both sanctioned by ADGA. The National Orange Show in San Bernardino is a junior and open show which is Memorial Day weekend. July there is Golden Triangle (open) in Victorville and in September there is the Los Angeles County Fair (junior and open). Ventura County fair (open) is in August and Orange County fair is in July. Check this web site for the fairs nearest you. http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/fe/fairlist.asp

Oops by the way, junior means youth and open is youth/adult.

[TexCountryWoman]

The LaMancha doe of mine that I brag about so much looks exactly like that Windstar doe! She gave me two doelings this spring by a buck from a closely related line whose mother and grandmother have similar udders. Unfortunately, the owner has not yet given me the promised papers (she is old and behind on her registrations and I am heartbroken). My buck is even tattooed. I feel i have such excellent LaMancha stock that they are worth upgrading even though it will take generations to do so. People see my LaMancha and say I should show her....but alas, no papers. Now I have her daughters too. But no papers on them or my buck. Any one in my area with an awesome buck with papers that would enhance my herd of three does? I am looking to buy as I do not have the means to travel for breeding service only. Or you would have to be really close. I am in Lee county, between Austin and Bryan-College Station. I guess I'm just dreaming as i would have to sell my UNREGISTERED good LaMancha buck to buy a registed one and that really hacks me off! The whole deal! Beware of promises from seemingly good people (By the way, this is not a deal I made on this forum, it was from an elderly woman in my area who is truly overwhelmed with family illness and too many issues to keep up with her papers).....Diane

[TWOGOATS]

Originally Posted by Cheri

Were in California are you? There are plenty of ADGA shows here. I'm in Southern California. This past Saturday was the San Bernardino Fair which is an ADGA junior sanctioned show. Saturday before that there was an open sanctioned show as well in Victorville. There is an INBA Specialty show in Lancaster weekend after next, two rings and both sanctioned by ADGA. The National Orange Show in San Bernardino is a junior and open show which is Memorial Day weekend. July there is Golden Triangle (open) in Victorville and in September there is the Los Angeles County Fair (junior and open). Ventura County fair (open) is in August and Orange County fair is in July. Check this web site for the fairs nearest you. http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/fe/fairlist.asp

Oops by the way, junior means youth and open is youth/adult.

I live in the Bay Area (Richmond). I didn't know that there were so many CA shows. It is hard to find a show around here. But thanks anyway!